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leggbros

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Making several smaller DLC's is less of a risk than spending six months making one expansion. That's better for us. What's better for the customer? When the latest expansion of EUIII came out a lot of customers seemed to like a number of new features but where also often disappointed about the new mechanics for the hordes, China and Japan. However, you couldn't get one without the other and had to spend 20 euro. Making those three features and the new building system in to four separate DLC's for 4-5 euro/piece would allow you as a a customer to choose which ones to buy.
Ok but what about:
-New graphical style, with detailed and beautiful map, including lots of new provinces
-Enhanced diplomacy, with more options for alliances and peace negotiation.
-More realistic development of trade, with control over strategic resources giving bonuses
And any other features I'm too lazy to look up because they aren't listed on gamersgate. The Horde mechanics rewrite isn't even listed.

Would all of those be free? If not then I'm already out more than DW would cost me.

Not true. You pay 10 euro for a 2 hour movie. Are you saying that you get less tan 8 hours of entertainment out of CKII?
I haven't gone to the theater in years exactly because it is the biggest ripoff in modern entertainment. Not only is the movie ticket overpriced but so are the snacks. And there are non-movie trailer adds before the movie... man what a gold mine. Paradox should totally get into the theater business.
 

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Just remember one thing, artistic changes require some work. Work needs to be payed. I don't understand why something should be considered as "cheap" when you don't know how much it costed to be created and how many copies are genuinely going to be sold (the fewer there are, the more expensive the product may end up...) Smaller expansions seem a good way to create a continuous cash flow that can help to "measure" how much demand there is still for changes. Big expansions may be a much greater financial risk.
 

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This is a sad age of gaming we're living in.


I agree too. It's a sad age of gaming when a developer releases a great game and people complain about having the option pay for more greatness.

It's actually a rather sad age we live in generally. It's become an age of perpetual outrage, where folks are happy only when they can stir up something to whine about.
 

Variton

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This is a sad age of gaming we're living in.


As a computer gamer from as far as the 80's I really don't agree.

As far as the thread is concerned: the OP was needlessly attacked by the DLC haters in this forum. If you read the original post, it was about wanting more portraits, with which many posters have agreed. the DLC haters hijacked this thread to DLC-no DLC discussion. And if you look at the # of posts by Nobody you see that it is the trolling nick of somebody.
 

Captain Gars

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Ok but what about:
-New graphical style, with detailed and beautiful map, including lots of new provinces
-Enhanced diplomacy, with more options for alliances and peace negotiation.
-More realistic development of trade, with control over strategic resources giving bonuses
And any other features I'm too lazy to look up because they aren't listed on gamersgate. The Horde mechanics rewrite isn't even listed.

Would all of those be free? If not then I'm already out more than DW would cost me.

The new graphics style and provinces would most likely have gone into a patch, same with the diplomacy stuff. The trade part could have gone either way I guess. About the cost, I'm not involved in putting a price on our games in any way, it was just an example of how it could have been done.
 

DominusNovus

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This is a sad age of gaming we're living in.

Am I the only one that thinks what sad is that people actually think that the value of gaming is worth such statements, in either direction?
 

BaptismbyFire

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I'm frankly surprised Paradox can still afford to charge only $40 dollars for their main titles. Even if their fan base has increased, I'm sure cost of living and production has gone up even more. Generally, games were more expensive than $40 even twenty years ago. I remember paying near $80 for Koei games on Super Nintendo because there were no other games like them back then.

Yeah, but DLC model is bound to be abused by more and more companies in the future. I trust that Paradox will not abuse the system, since they seem to be gamers who love making games, but then to how many companies does that apply today?
 

Darkrenown

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Right I don't think I'll ever buy car packs. I'm saying the game cost me $39.99 and a car pack costs $5.99. Why did it cost so much less to model over 1000 cars (plus all the courses and underlying game and about a million other things) than for 6 cars? Do you not see how there was obviously ridiculously better value for me as a consumer in the game itself than in the DLC? And that is why DLC is perceived (by me) to be a ripoff. Or is this too crazy?

$39.99 is the "standard PC game price", so that's pretty much a given. I have no idea why they chose to do 6 car packs, but it's just under $1/car, and if they're made as many as you say they have clearly people are buying them at that price. If you get an hour or two of enjoyment out of each car it's better value than a movie. Obviously you don't think it's worth it, so you don't buy it. Companies are under no obligation to sell items for the bare minimum they can for a product, they charge what people will pay. And when talking about games, if you want the product but don't like the price it's normally reduced as time goes by so you can eventually get it for less. So:

Think it's worth it? Buy it!
Want it, but at lower price? Wait for sale/price reduction/bundle.
Not interested? Don't buy it.

I don't see how you'd be ripped off at any point in this.
 

Crownshelm

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I have been a Paradox fan for nearly six years ever since I was introduced to EU3 and have been a lurker on the forums since. I love the way Paradox makes games, love the games they make, and I love their down-to-earth attitude. I'll support Paradox by purchasing full games and any DLCs I think I would enjoy, because I want to see more Paradox games made! Like the HOI3 DLCs... the sprite packs didn't look like they would add much to the game for me, but I thought the Soviet music pack would, so I bought that.

But as a whole, the response to this thread is ridiculous. I agree with the OP, maybe $10 for a cosmetic pack is hyperbole, but I'd pay some cash for it. But all this entitlement is sick. If you think you're constantly getting ripped off, then just leave! Just a hint: I'm sure that your whining is not going to make Paradox ditch DLCs forever.
 
Last edited:

Mizzle

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And if you look at the # of posts by Nobody you see that it is the trolling nick of somebody.
He has 23 games registered. You think somebody would spend that much on an alternate account to troll?

$39.99 is the "standard PC game price", so that's pretty much a given. I have no idea why they chose to do 6 car packs, but it's just under $1/car, and if they're made as many as you say they have clearly people are buying them at that price. If you get an hour or two of enjoyment out of each car it's better value than a movie. Obviously you don't think it's worth it, so you don't buy it. I don't see how you'd be ripped off at any point in this.
$39.99 = 1000 cars + the tracks + the game mechanics + the graphics + everything else = less than 4 cents per car
$5.99 = 6 cars = $1 per car
The DLC is clearly a lot worse value for money than the game, and that does tend to be true in general. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a rip-off, but it's still a decent point and why I don't usually buy DLC - I don't feel that it's worth my money.
 
Last edited:
Sep 22, 2011
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As much as I often find myself complaining. I think Paradox did a great job with graphics in this game and think it does not need any improvement.
Besides graphics are not so crucial to gameplay and I think it would be a horrible waste of their resources improving something that I wouldn't pay a cent for or even dowload if it were free.
 

comsubpac

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As much as I often find myself complaining. I think Paradox did a great job with graphics in this game and think it does not need any improvement.
Besides graphics are not so crucial to gameplay and I think it would be a horrible waste of their resources improving something that I wouldn't pay a cent for or even dowload if it were free.

such things are outsourced anyway.
 

Baneslave

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As much as I often find myself complaining. I think Paradox did a great job with graphics in this game and think it does not need any improvement.
Besides graphics are not so crucial to gameplay and I think it would be a horrible waste of their resources improving something that I wouldn't pay a cent for or even dowload if it were free.

Doing (outsourcing, even) new graphics isn't going to take any resources from bug fixing and feature making, so yeah.

Also, if they can support their games longer by selling extra graphics, fine with me.
 

jww

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Actually I think the entire thread is kind of funny and the emotion involved quite fascinating. I was doing my daily scan of the forum for gameplay information, came across this thread, read through it, and got five minutes of quite good entertainment out of it. And I knew my little one-word post would be part of the entertainment. Carry on.

Am I the only one that thinks what sad is that people actually think that the value of gaming is worth such statements, in either direction?
 
Sep 22, 2011
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Doing (outsourcing, even) new graphics isn't going to take any resources from bug fixing and feature making, so yeah.

Also, if they can support their games longer by selling extra graphics, fine with me.

It's not fine by me. I find it ridiculous that people would prioritize eye-candy over anything.
Graphics are something that turned out waaay better than expected.
 

LordStark

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I 100% agree with the idea that Paradox can, and should charge for new content for its games, including CK II. Nothing comes from nothing, and the money charged to its customers allows their offices to stay open and the work to get done. As for what should be considered a patch, and what should be considered a DLC and have a price tag, I do trust them to make the right decision.

For those people who don't like this, I suggest you follow what some the Paradox staff and others have said in this thread : vote with your wallet and please, for our sake, stop moaning.

For Paradox : Don't feed the forum trolls. Ignore them and keep doing what you do best: produce awesome content that enriches the game. And yes, I will gladly give you money for it, whether it is a DLC or an expansion.
 

leggbros

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$39.99 is the "standard PC game price", so that's pretty much a given. I have no idea why they chose to do 6 car packs, but it's just under $1/car, and if they're made as many as you say they have clearly people are buying them at that price. If you get an hour or two of enjoyment out of each car it's better value than a movie. Obviously you don't think it's worth it, so you don't buy it. Companies are under no obligation to sell items for the bare minimum they can for a product, they charge what people will pay. And when talking about games, if you want the product but don't like the price it's normally reduced as time goes by so you can eventually get it for less. So:

Think it's worth it? Buy it!
Want it, but at lower price? Wait for sale/price reduction/bundle.
I don't see how you'd be ripped off at any point in this.
Not interested? Don't buy it.

I don't see how you'd be ripped off at any point in this.
So the good news is I actually think we are in the same universe and agree on most things. I actually did buy Gran Turismo 5 XL that came with DLC because it was the same cost as the regular edition. They charge a dollar a car because they can. Because it makes them money. It is bad for the consumer whether the consumer knows it, doesn't know it or ignores it.

I do buy things that are a ripoff because I want them. I finally got a new cell phone from one that I had for literally a decade and I got an iPhone 4S. That was probably a ripoff as are most mac products. If I felt I had any power and were going to buy an iPhone in the near future I might lobby Apple to lower prices or institute better working standards in China for the price I pay. Just because I am ripped off doesn't mean I want to be and won't speak out when I can. Also I can't quite remember but I don't think I was the first person to use the ripoff language, I was just adding to it but it's not the first choice I would use to describe DLC in general. I like the nickel and diming language much more.

I'm just here to voice my concerns as to what I want as a pretty loyal customer. The fact that anyone, certainly more than one Paradox employee has responded to me is excellent and a sign that at least I was heard though that is no guarantee anyone will listen. And this is a weekend so I wouldn't be doing this if I were you, so thank you. Maybe someone else agrees and they too will speak up, maybe nothing will change, but I've done what I can do and maybe I will continue to do it.

The bad news is that if I ever apply to be a beta for a future Paradox game, my name will immediately struck from the list with extreme prejudice lol *cries as I type that*.

Captain Gars said:
The new graphics style and provinces would most likely have gone into a patch, same with the diplomacy stuff. The trade part could have gone either way I guess. About the cost, I'm not involved in putting a price on our games in any way, it was just an example of how it could have been done.
Well that's honest and largely what I expect. I have nothing to add so I'll say lets see how this turns out in the future then.

CKII is a great game though and I'm only here because I care about Paradox (admittedly for my own selfish reasons).
 

DominusNovus

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I'm frankly surprised Paradox can still afford to charge only $40 dollars for their main titles. Even if their fan base has increased, I'm sure cost of living and production has gone up even more. Generally, games were more expensive than $40 even twenty years ago. I remember paying near $80 for Koei games on Super Nintendo because there were no other games like them back then.

I can't speak to video games, but I know that, with books (particularly textbooks), most of the cost to the consumer comes from production and packaging of the physical product, transportation, and retail markup. While I don't know the specifics for games, all those costs are still there.

With the advent of digital copies, almost all those costs are pretty much eliminated. Ahh, the beauty of progress.