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unmerged(150848)

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I preordered Hoi3 because I was anxious to play it fast. Waiting until its somewhat playable and costs 10 euros isnt a solution.First the company would collapse if noone bought their products until 1 year later, and secondly the company loses reliability. I for sure aint gonna buy any more of their games until I see from the forums that it is patched properly. I felt completely betrayed and a fool having the game for 1 year , seeing it dropping to 15euros and not being able to play it properly.Thats NO WAY to run a profitable company.
I agree that DLC is the current trend and I still hate it. But to charge for some sprites that took a day to make and solve NONE of the huge AI problems is silly.I d prefer even though it d suck to pay extra for something meaningfull.I ll probably buy FTM, but after a year or so :(.
Thank god for the free mods,thanks to all the modders out there.Sometimes it feels they should be the ones making the HOIs, I for once would hire em ;)
 

Marcus

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I buy the games at full price because I want to support the company and make sure they produce games that I love for a long time to come. Although there were problems with the initial release, even pre SF the game was excellent - especially with ICE - and improves with every DLC and expansion.

I think if people judge whether they think a game is worth buying by general customer mood they must surely mean by the mood on the forums?? And if that is the case people should be aware that people rarely compliment when things go right and often criticise when they are unhappy. Nothing wrong with this, but it does mean the mood on the forum may not represent the general customer mood.

Exactly. Cool deep deep strategy games cost money. My money. I am willing to pay. Swedish programmers do not work for free. They're not that communist over there.
 

shepherd352

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If someone doesn't know he difference between patches, expansions and DLC, it is hard to have a rational discussion.

HOI3 was a radical development of the franchise. When you are working close to the boundaries, things will go wrong. Many of the bugs on release could have been found and resolved with a more complete testing regime but many (most?) of us are happy to get the game early and experience it before another 6 months of testing. Not many people understand just how difficult and expensive software testing can be. It is difficult because you need to test so many things in a complex environment and expensive for the hours and test staff it can use. Perhaps one solution would be for PI to release a Beta version of the game (lets say HOI3 as it was on release) and then a more expensive general release version when the main bugs are resolved (HOI3 + SF). Those who bought the Beta version might get the upgrade at no cost. Mount and Blade followed a path something like this. If they did it this way, I think almost everyone who bought the game on release would buy the Beta version. Most of us are willing to put up with some bugs to play a game early. If we are Beta testers, make the later buyers pay for our hard (and much enjoyed) work!

As for DLC, I really dislike it, where the lack of it reduces the nature of the core game (Dragon Age). The DLC in HOI3 is DLC at its best. I don't like sprites so I can't comment on the DLC sprites. The DI:G DLC taylors the game experience for a German only view. Since the game is a sandbox, in a historical setting, this is quite different from the core concept of the game. Some of what DI:G does makes the game unplayable for other countries but I hope they produce a few more of this type of DLC, so we can experience the same sort of game from the point of view of other major powers. These DLC (DI:G and Common Weapons) don't change any of the major faults of the game but they do provide a different feel. Their cost is minimal and the return enjoyment is significant. The other thing I like about the HOI3 DLC is that it is created by fans, not by PI. If PI created it, we might question whether they could have included it in the core game. This is not the case. Interested fans have created it and PI have set up a system where it can be published and those fans can get a financial pat on the back for their efforts. This has not reduced the support of free access to mods. This is a good time to be gaming!
 

Green Giant

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HOI 3 was unplayable when release but was improved to be the poor game it is now. The AI is terrible. Setting objectives for the AI is at best useless and at worst can cost you the war. The AI controlling the fronts uses armor and infantry completely randomly. If you want your armies to enjoy the benefits of chain of command in any meaningful way you have to micromanage every single division on every front. If you don't do that, its total chaos. The AI will send your units every which way and never keep them close to their HQ. Turning on the front AI ammounts to hoping your blob of divisions defeats the enemy's blob of divisions.

Then there is this laughable bug, which by the way will probably never be fixed:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?521991-True-Effects-of-Defensiveness

Defense doesn't work lol. This terrible blunder by the developers will take so long to properly fix and balance they probably are just going to leave it in the game. Paradox has no intention to fix a huge bug in the game but they're going to try to sell us an expansion.

I'm not sure how people can say this is a good game.
 

timkoningskelp

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Setting objectives for the AI is at best useless and at worst can cost you the war.

You do know that during the real 2. WW things often did work like this? There are countless reasons why an army or corps commander would not or could not do exactly as his commander ordered. That's called "initiative", and especially the Germans were quite good at leaving their more senoir commander some operational lattitude. Ofcourse this didn't always work out so well, perhaps one could even say IRL at times real damage was done by commanders not doing exactly what they were expected to do.

As an example: think about the way HG Nord used the armored formations alloted to it to prevent the Heeresgruppe from being isolated in the Baltic States after the Soviets broke through HG Mitte in the summer and fall of 1944. The later GFM Schorner used these armored divisions up north, in the area of AOK 18, instead of employing them further south were OKH ordered Schorner to use them. The result was the encirclement of HG Nord in the Kurland pocket and the loss of valuable formations during the far more important defence of Ost-PreuBen. Another example would be the retreat of Pz.AOK 1 from the Caucasus in early 1943. Although GFM Manstein ordered this unit to evacuate it's dangerously extended position with all possible speed, the commander of Pz.AOK 1 Gen.Oberst von Mackensen decided to fight a prolonged rearguard action against the advancing Russians. The net-result was the near encirclement of this entire army against the shores of the Sea of Azov and it's inability to play a part during the withdrawls in the Ukraine in the early months of 1943 when it's divisions could have been put to very good use.

Just because a senior commander orders a line of advance or withdrawl or sets a geographical objective doesn't mean a subordinate leaders will do exactly as ordered. This is just the way the AI works: it will do exactly as you ordered, unless it decides it has other priorities that take precedence.

The AI controlling the fronts uses armor and infantry completely randomly. If you want your armies to enjoy the benefits of chain of command in any meaningful way you have to micromanage every single division on every front. If you don't do that, its total chaos. The AI will send your units every which way and never keep them close to their HQ.

You're right, and this can be very anoying. But using AI-control at army level instead of army-group or even theater level helps quite a lot. This also prevents the AI from mixing up armoured and infantry divisions: just put your panzerdivisions in a designated army (just like the Germans did IRL), set AI-control on army-level, and there will no longer be any mix ups. The game mechanics aren't perfect, but if you know how to use them you can surely work around most of it's flows. Also remember this is a game, not a fully fledged piece of software developed to train real army officers. It isn't perfect as a simulation and imho we can't expect it to be if we don't want to pay hunderds or even thousands of dollars. The value we get out of our $40,- or so is what we could expect with such a complex game. It has it's faults, but an experienced player can work around this quite well.


Defense doesn't work lol.

Well, if it doesn't work for me, it doesn't work for the enemy either. Right? This game is about balance and in this case there is nothing wrong with that.
 

podcat

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Zaku

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HOI 3 was unplayable when release but was improved to be the poor game it is now. The AI is terrible. Setting objectives for the AI is at best useless and at worst can cost you the war.

Most times I play using the theatre AI. I dont see a problem with it.
As long as I supply my generals with a good equipment they'll win the war for me.


I'm not sure how people can say this is a good game.

Because I have played more then 200 hours with it already? I think that deserves the "good game" ticket. If you don't like it it's your loss, but then what are you doing on the game's forum?
 

Darkrenown

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But to charge for some sprites that took a day to make and solve NONE of the huge AI problems is silly.

What? Firstly most (all?) of the DLC is made by 3rd parties anyway, as I already said, but even if we make some an artist making sprites wouldn't be fixing the AI otherwise, he would be doing arty things. You're also incorrect to say the AI is being ignored, it has been improved in every patch and was one of the main focus points of SF.
 

Rancher

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I have found that HOI 3 is what I term a good game. Yes, it has bugs, there are also things that happen that I dont like and things that I cant do that I would like to. However I would be interested in the ages of people that play the game. I am now 66 and started my gaming experience with games such as the Hobbit on a ZX Spectrum. Perhaps you can understand why I started this repy with the words I did.
It is all a matter of perception and expectation. I have experienced a great deal of frustration by the way the naval and air forces are able to be used but as stated above this is not a modern day Kreigspeil to train young officers. I suppose it could be if I had access to a top rated computer or mainframe and was willing to pay thousands of pouns for it. I have neither and am, after playing (HOI3+1.4+SF) for some time, constantly amazed by the depth of this game.
NO it doesnt always behave like real life, but it aint real life its a GAME. Im sure that over the next few years this and other games will improve so that they will mirror real life (god help us!!) more accurately. Yes lets want and expect improvements as time goes on but never forget this is NOT REAL LIFE thats what goes on outside, thats what really needs improving
 

Zaku

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This is the reason why I won't buy a HOI 3 Expansion. A major game flaw which we have to purchase. In HOI4 we will probably have to purchase patches. It's nearly happening already.

A major game flaw? I bet you didn't even notice until someone on the forum pointed it out:) I sure didn't.

And besides I'm pretty sure someone from Pdox said in a DD that they'll port some bugfixes back to SF when For the Motherland comes out.
 

Darkrenown

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Such a major flaw that no one noticed it for years? Yes, it's a bug, but it's not something that affected your play. You can also fix it yourself by changing 2 numbers in common/defines.lua as mentioned here.
 

podcat

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This is the reason why I won't buy a HOI 3 Expansion. A major game flaw which we have to purchase. In HOI4 we will probably have to purchase patches. It's nearly happening already.

imo its not a major flaw. most people never noticed because it wasnt a big deal, however it does touch many many parts of the game which its less likely to get back ported because you need to rebalance and change a lot of stuff that is pretty intertwined with FTM now (unlike the supply fixes which will come in a beta patch pretty soon, eg this week or early next).
 

Chromos

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Such a major flaw that no one noticed it for years? Yes, it's a bug, but it's not something that affected your play. You can also fix it yourself by changing 2 numbers in common/defines.lua as mentioned here.

imo its not a major flaw. most people never noticed because it wasnt a big deal, however it does touch many many parts of the game which its less likely to get back ported because you need to rebalance and change a lot of stuff that is pretty intertwined with FTM now (unlike the supply fixes which will come in a beta patch pretty soon, eg this week or early next).

Thats the "downsize" of having such an easily readable/modable game. :D

Noone would maybe ever found out without acces to these files..

On the other side this bug also showed how good user interaction could be. Users find a bug, report it, test about it and so on and the bug gets fixed.

Ok, we have to pay for the fix, (if we don't have SF..)or use a Mod to have it for free.
So many choices. :)

Keep up the good work!

Kind regards,
Chromos
 

cfp

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Sorry to let you down, but we are in fact fixing this as part of For the Motherland expansion.

It should be fixed in a patch, though. I don't mind to pay for features, (I bought SF and DI: G after all) but I shouldn't have to pay to have a major bug fixed.

It's a war game. If combat is broken, the game is broken.
 

Ricox

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The people who pay full price at release are basically beta testers for the guys who buy the discounted version later.
That's not good.

You have to realize that it's how nowadays games work. People get angry if the game gets delayed and they get angry if the game gets released unfinished because of the demand of not delaying it by the potentional customers.. it's never ending chain of bullocks. Ofcourse customers don't have that much effect on when the game is released. Maybe the company is not so major so it releases the game a bit early so people can play it, give their opinion and the developers, which have now finally got plenty of money to motivate themselves, can work on improving the game. That's how I see it, I have yet to see a fully-finished game being released in the last 2 years. There's almost always atleast one gamebreaking bug in every newly released game I've played...

P.S If you can't enjoy HoI 3 with SF and the latest patch, then you're doing something wrong. When I had original HoI 3, I could barely even finish any game, but after the latest patches HoI 3 has been on my priority list and I have finally finished so many games. It never gets boring and if it does - then you can download a mod! With mods you get a few more hundred hours of gameplay.
 

jmschaub

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  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
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  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
My only disappointment that still lingers is the Japan vs Nat Chi war. HOI 2 handled better, but still not ideal. I just wish they would correct this glaring error because without this fix.... Japan will ruin any game you play with it's dominance. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't 100% of the time. Implementing an ez bandaid (make Japan DOW ALL of the warlords) would be a good first step. I'm afraid that the supply "fixes" in the early patches helped out the Japanese to much.