And I agree, why does distance matter for everything but improve relations? I'm glad they're fixing this though because I'd rather not think of how they'd change ae to compensate for it.
The "diplomat trick": why does it exist?
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And I agree, why does distance matter for everything but improve relations? I'm glad they're fixing this though because I'd rather not think of how they'd change ae to compensate for it.
Are you arguing that using an exploit is not akin to cheating? or that Devs shouldn't fix game mechanics that are being exploited?
Also I used MA to get out of nasty battles all the time, and when they changed it I was quite annoyed. But then they made retreating from battle a lot more viable and I completely forgot about it until you mentioned it.
I was agreeing with Outrider's statements. The 3 statements go together, trying to take them apart is not an argument. The first two are what Wiz told us, and the 3rd is the logical conclusion. Whatever though, it's their game.
I don't care about military access. It feels a lot cheesier and gamey these days than it used to. And since launching attacks while in military access lands was deemed an exploit, I've apparently been almost cheating since EU3.
Yes you were. Military acess was discussed to death already, and the consensus was that it shouldn´t work as a parking lot for armies to run away or sneak attack.
At the very least it shouldn´t come for free, either regarding Money or diplomacy.
At the very least it shouldn´t come for free, either regarding Money or diplomacy.
I should probably come clean then, I cheated in Pac-man too. I would camp out by the power pill and wait for the ghosts to close in, then I'd eat it. 
I'd agree with you that Military Access could have been handled better, but I don't agree that it's currently better. Topic for a different thread though.
I'd agree with you that Military Access could have been handled better, but I don't agree that it's currently better. Topic for a different thread though.
One man's brilliant strategy, is another man's dodgy exploit, is another man's shameless cheat...I should probably come clean then, I cheated in Pac-man too. I would camp out by the power pill and wait for the ghosts to close in, then I'd eat it.
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If anyone seriously thinks that exploits are akin to cheating they are stupid, this entire argument is based off a poor example Wiz gives when he responded to a question of will they be buffing diplomacy somehow to compensate for the removal of the exploit, where he said no and why should they, suggesting that would be like buffing incoming because they removed the cash console command. I can see how you can stretch this into him calling people who use exploits cheaters, but honestly if your somehow offended by this, toughen up. And if you seriously think people are "cheaters" for using this its pretty silly, there are other "exploits" I might call cheating but this was simply a minor exploit, its not using the task manager to force close the game in order to save scum in Iron Man mode, thats is something that can be called an "exploit" but is really just cheating
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Nice work Wiz, glad to see this change. Any chance you might do something similar for on-arrival siege attrition?
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It's boring and tedious, trust meHuh? I don't know it has something like this. I should try it sometimes.
Its a BUG fix. PI didn't have the time resources prior to this patch, to fix it and now it had a few man hours and the bug got fixed. Its not a debuff but rather a fix of something that was never intended.
Not my best choice of quoting or words, I was tired. For completeness sake I'll quote what I was responding to.
1. In some cases exploits are outright cheating, in others they're just cheesy. It'll always be subjective.
2. This is, in fact part of their job.
3. I doubt Wiz will think any less of me for using tactics that are later deemed exploits. If he does, that's just his opinion man.
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I don't think that's going to be as much of a problem with forts and the removal of carpet siege. If you're not carpet sieging, you'll have extra artillery so you won't need to send an extra regiment simply to compensate for on-arrival attrition, as you artilery will already outnumber the garrison, and hopefully grow back to size (for max siege bonus) on the monthly tick before the next siege phase.
Unfortunately, both of those terms are subject to convenient, subjective, (and apparently changing) definitions.
So, yes, many people will assert that some "exploits" are akin to cheating, particularly if they exceed whatever cheese/sleaze threshold they use internally. You'll even seen serial reloaders and restarters condemn "exploitive" play by other people, without a hint of irony.
But nobody likes to think that their own thresholds are problematic, or that they might be on the wrong side of some moral line. This change isn't really going to be that controversial, given the tedious nature of the former mechanic/now exploit. What disconcerts people is the occasional reclassification of long-standing game mechanics as "exploits" that suddenly are perceived as exceeding some cheese/sleaze threshold. This type of change reminds us that it can happen in any area of the game, with little warning or justification. "Features" that people get used to can become "exploits" overnight. Sometimes that makes for a better game, sometimes it just doesn't.
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By diplomacy I mean as na agressive move to both countries at risk and the country giving access itself. Through I´d favor more na approach based on cash payment.
DP are the most irrelevant points if you don´t colonize. Zero issue spending 1 sometimes even 2 extra diplo for relations. Even more so if Western.
Not that I disagree, but you need some diplo in order to keep vassals in line and then to integrate. Of course everything depends on how you play and where.
Well, apart from the bit where Diplomatic and Influence ideas are awesome, vassal annexation consumes DIP, quite a few useful peace settlements involve paying DIP, and (at present) DIP techs 6 (embassy) and 22 (Imperialism and Nationalism CBs) are amazing.
Like I said, situational, but most western countries can safely be on 1--2 per month. I wouldn´t want to be -2 on ADM, ever. BTW I´m playing Poland and even as integrating Vassals like Imereti and Hungary, plus freed Serbia, I´m up to date in diplo tech and filled Diplomacy. That´s by 1600
Anyway, not topic.
Anyway, not topic.