Wave

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I actually started to think of playing some stock Rome without Vae Victis after reading this. Things are so much simpler in it :D

Good luck for Caesar, hopefully he will be the true ruler of Rome before the struggle is over ;)


if normal Rome commentaarting continues, you'll end up with comments from all the mod team ... for some reason we all hang around here and try to panic (no I mean support) authors

It's at least a lot better than be writing for the empty walls (despite the panic) :p
 

unmerged(53911)

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The body is exhumed! The corpse is rising! Holy cow! Not much to say substantively as I am still shocked at the retAARn of this story. [Pardon the word mangling.]
 

Rensslaer

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Must be a record!!! resurrected nearly 3 years after last post :)

Its an interesting scenario about one of the great events in the world history, I was very surprised when i read about this civil war the first time after having just read how Marius and Sulla had massacred their enemies. That Caesar forgave (Clemens?) his enemies rather than killing them all off was a new in the history of the world afaik then.

Welcome, Surt! Believe it or not, it’s been almost 4 years – 45 months, by my calculations – since the last update. :D

Oddly, for a history buff, I really paid no attention to Roman history until college, and hadn’t really been more than superficially aware of the Roman Civil War until doing research for the EU Rome Strategy Guide. At that point, I realized, “Wow! This is exciting stuff!” and decided I wanted to try it out in game.

great update and encouraged me to read back to pick up the story. The later scenarios in Rome are interesting as you have that period where the main enemy is domestic and the Civil Wars so messy etc

if normal Rome commentaarting continues, you'll end up with comments from all the mod team ... for some reason we all hang around here and try to panic (no I mean support) authors

Welcome, Loki! You’re following all my other AARs, so I was kind of surprised to see you hadn’t posted in this one before. ;) Just moderatAARs will be fine, though I see some others have already showed up. Coming back to this makes me realize just how much I liked Rome, but I’ve never played the later Rome supplements and patches. How does it change?

I actually started to think of playing some stock Rome without Vae Victis after reading this. Things are so much simpler in it :D

Good luck for Caesar, hopefully he will be the true ruler of Rome before the struggle is over ;)

It's at least a lot better than be writing for the empty walls (despite the panic) :p

Welcome, Wave! Thanks – maybe you can help me understand how Vae Victis changed things. I think I would have worked on Vae Victis except that I was already deep into the HOI 3 beta and Strategy Guide by that time, so there was no time left to pick up on that.

The body is exhumed! The corpse is rising! Holy cow! Not much to say substantively as I am still shocked at the retAARn of this story. [Pardon the word mangling.]

And WhisperingDeath is the first returning reader! Thanks for so graciously following all my ramblings! :p

I looked back at the beginning page of the AAR, and noted I said (at that time), “Let me say, first, that the Roman Rebels do not start in an advantageous position! Their economy is barely above subsistence farming (I’m exaggerating… slightly!)… I mean, they have basically three provinces of any importance. The rest are just this side of barbarianism. The military situation is also not enviable. The Romans have more legions, more resources with which to build more legions, better and richer characters to buy more legions, and control of the lion’s share of the world.”

Seems like I’ve come quite a ways since then! Which is partly why I’d like to pick this up again. I got so busy with HOI 3 that I never had time to finish it.

I will have to dig out the old files soon, or else we’ll run out of AAR. But please have confidence that I will do so. This should be fun!

Thanks! Another update in maybe a week or two. I’ll also try to attend to at least one of my reinvigorated HOI AARs in the meantime.

Rensslaer
 

unmerged(58610)

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Can't quite believe that I haven't posted in this AAR before. I did read this AAR, though. I thought you had a mountain to climb. Still do. Rome is one hard nut to crack. You've got a really big battle up in the north to win. Do so and you're well on the way to gaining Italy for the rebels and Caesar.
 

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I figured it was this one you were going to revive, as you said somewhere (possibly in the V2 Cross Nominations thread)! Let's hope you can win at least two out of three large battles going on/about to start.

As for the differences between vanilla Rome and Vae Victus, it's been so long since I played vanilla Rome I can't remember any details, but in general it adds more mechanics for and differences between the various governments, etc,...

Concerning the siege, I think it's (almost?) the same mechanics as EU3.
 

VILenin

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Well, if you can reanimate this AAR after 4+ years, I suppose I can leave a comment for the first time in ages...

It's funny, actually, I'd been considering installing EU:Rome and giving it another try, recently. You might galvanize me into finally buying Vae Victis!
 

Nikolai

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It's back! This was a surprise, I must say.:)
 

Rensslaer

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Can't quite believe that I haven't posted in this AAR before. I did read this AAR, though. I thought you had a mountain to climb. Still do. Rome is one hard nut to crack. You've got a really big battle up in the north to win. Do so and you're well on the way to gaining Italy for the rebels and Caesar.

I'm quite surprised by that, too! :) Welcome, Chief Ragusa! Yes, it's quite a unique scenario, and a blast to play. But yes, not easy.

I figured it was this one you were going to revive, as you said somewhere (possibly in the V2 Cross Nominations thread)! Let's hope you can win at least two out of three large battles going on/about to start.

As for the differences between vanilla Rome and Vae Victus, it's been so long since I played vanilla Rome I can't remember any details, but in general it adds more mechanics for and differences between the various governments, etc,...

Concerning the siege, I think it's (almost?) the same mechanics as EU3.

Thanks! I always figured Vae Victus would add more character stuff, which probably means government, etc. So that's about what I expected.

I just bought CK II and started playing around with it. Man! The character management in that is ten times more than Rome -- I shouldn't complain! :)

Well, if you can reanimate this AAR after 4+ years, I suppose I can leave a comment for the first time in ages...

It's funny, actually, I'd been considering installing EU:Rome and giving it another try, recently. You might galvanize me into finally buying Vae Victis!

VILenin! Welcome (back)! How wonderful to see you! What an honor that you came out of posting retirement. :D You should get Vae Victus and start an AAR. I'll follow it, I promise!

Since I can't think of anything Witty to say I'm simply going to wish you good luck in getting this restarted.

Not a problem, Thandros - Welcome! I appreciate it.

It's back! This was a surprise, I must say.:)

I'm glad! :D It's fun to pull out the old AARs. I never really mean to abandon any of them -- there's always that itch to go back. I guess I'm getting comfortable with the fact that I'll probably never finish my V1 Afghan AAR. Oh well. And I deliberately stopped my V1 Alexander Hamilton AAR because I want to turn it into a REAL book. But the rest of these, I still want to finish. I went to all that trouble of taking screenshots, etc. Might as well! :)

Thank you, everybody, for welcoming this back. I'll try to get another update up soon. I've updated 4 AARs this May, I think -- quite impressive since I'd gone about 9 months without an update in any!

Rensslaer
 

Rensslaer

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Okay, so I predicted an update before the end of May, and I'm a week late. At least it’s less than a month since my last update! :D

Hopefully I haven't lost your attention, and you are still following. Better yet, if you don't remember what's going on, you're willing to re-read the thing to get back into the swing.

In any case, there is a tremendous battle for the boot of Italy, and my rebel armies are trying to fight their way out of western Hispania (have, for the most part) into north Hispania, where there are rebel strongholds. Agrippa is leading this struggle, and he is quite talented at it.

At Cassetani, in northern Hispania, Marcus Lepidus decides he has enough of an advantage that he can attempt to assault the walls. This would bring Rebel control further south of the Appenine Mountains, and be a feather in the cap of Caesar's armies.

CassetaniAssault.jpg


It would also allow him to concentrate more fully on Ilergetes, also south of the Appenines, which is a Rebel-held territory under siege by the Loyalists. Here, we see the convergence of an army from the north which has just defeated some barbarians at Vascones, joining with the southern army led by Gen. Agrippa against Ilergetes, in order to relieve the siege there.

Meanwhile, at Campania, on the western coast of Italy, Gen. Labeo has defeated the siege army brought there by Loyalist Gen. Censorinus. This is a significant gain for the Rebels, as we've just recently gained two provinces on the eastern coast of the "boot" of Italy, and now we've defeated a Loyalist bid to retake territory south of besieged Rome. The Rebels suffered more losses, but the victory is a strategic one, so it’s a decent tradeoff.

AlreadyFading.jpg


Up north, the “mother of all battles” has commenced, between the Loyalist horde, under Gen. Gabinius (29,000 strong at the dawn of battle – down to 26,000 now) is trying to strangle the Rebellion’s hope at Paleoveneti, where Gen. Pictor leads 20,000 Rebels who have come to halt Gabinius.

Pictor’s army has gotten the drop on Gabinius, whose army is suffering almost 4:1 casualties.

And, back in the Appenines, Agrippa has successfully lifted the siege at Ilergetes, the Loyalists taking nearly 20:1 casualties!

Paleoveneti.jpg


By about a week later, this dreaded “doomstack” which had marched up from Greece via Illyria, is defeated by Pictor. Gabinius “retreats” toward Bononia, in the south. Finding that Palloveneti is defended only by a small garrison, Gaius Octavius Pictor first assaults and recaptures the city, then marches after Gabinius toward a second showdown in Bononia.

To the south of Rome, Appius Drusus’ valiant stand at Cassetani was eventually for naught. After having defeated the Loyalist attempt to breach the siege, he had spent his army’s strength upon the walls, there, having reduced the enemy garrison, and damaged her walls, perhaps softening the city for a later takeover. But it was not to be. Not yet, anyway.

In southern Spain, at Olissipo, the rebels who rose up there actually pulled off a significant victory! The allied dead were more than the enemy, though the tallies were more or less even. But the fact that the Romans fled from these irregulars at all is reason for celebration! And for embarrassment in the enemy camp!

CaesarSpain.jpg


Meanwhile, at the end of May, Julius Caesar has traveled to Hispania to take command of the forces there which hope to prevent a Loyalist breakthrough and perhaps even to tip the tide of war there in favor of the Rebels.

The Loyalists recently mustered 31 cohorts at Lusones, which defeated Agrippa at great cost. Now, they are in Caesar’s way… And if Caesar himself fails to pull off a victory there, Agrippa will by then have been regrouped and ready to make the second, deadly stab.

By mid-June, Pictor and Gabinius are at it again, this time in Bononia. Gaius Octavius Pictor somehow achieved TOTAL surprise against the somewhat stunned Loyalists, and the casualty figures at Bononia were actually 20:1 !!!

Slaughter-1.jpg


This news is somewhat mitigated by the devastating news from Lucania of Cotta’s utter defeat. Cotta escaped (barely!) with his life, and is fleeing to Campania where he hopes there will not be a followup victory by the Senate’s armies.

With victories in the north of Italy, and in the south, things had seemed to be very much favoring the Rebellion. But now, with Caesar preoccupied in Hispania, and Cotta on the run in Campania, we’re forced to wonder.

Is the situation in southern Italy spinning out of control???
 

unmerged(58610)

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You'll be hoping for some conclusions of sieges in italy or you'll be forced to abandon some to put armies in the field to defeat the Senate's armies. Pictor is one lucky general. He seems to be a genius commanding cavalry. Most unroman. He'll be chasing that army til he destroys it. The loss of the army in Lucania is a serious blow, but you may have more rebels pop up in Italy.

You've committed Caesar to Hispania. I think that's the key decision to wrap up the Senate's forces there.
 
Last edited:

Wave

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It seems that Roman rebels do their best to act unRoman with cavalry armies (in the alps!!) :D

You don't have too many years left to win the struggle but I think you'll get it almost done before the end of the game :p Good thing for AARs like this is that stock Rome doesn't have "hold capital for X years and win the civil war" thing that Vae Victis has.
 

unmerged(53911)

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Rather then the Rebels worrying over losses in the southern sector, I think the Senate needs to worry about that "madman" Pictor and his soon to be victorious army breathing down the neck of Italy! Gabinius's shame will stain his family for seven times seven generations!! Hispania is really shaping up to be the more interesting theater.
 

Rensslaer

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You'll be hoping for some conclusions of sieges in italy or you'll be forced to abandon some to put armies in the field to defeat the Senate's armies. Pictor is one lucky general. He seems to be a genius commanding cavalry. Most unroman. He'll be chasing that army til he destroys it. The loss of the army in Lucania is a serious blow, but you may have more rebels pop up in Italy.

You've committed Caesar to Hispania. I think that's the key decision to wrap up the Senate's forces there.

Yeah, Pictor is quite impressive! And yes, these sieges had better bear fruit, and quickly. With Caesar in Spain, along with Agrippa, I'm hoping that will close out that front. We'll see.

agree with the Chief here, is it not time to abandon most of Italy and clean up Spain first?

Well, "abandon", no -- concentrate? Perhaps. Perhaps a 2/3 concentration, with holding actions in Italy. I already have sieges underway, so might as well keep them going, which is as much progress as I can expect. Plus, keeping Italy "in play" is the only way of keeping the enemy away from my capital.

It seems that Roman rebels do their best to act unRoman with cavalry armies (in the alps!!) :D

You don't have too many years left to win the struggle but I think you'll get it almost done before the end of the game :p Good thing for AARs like this is that stock Rome doesn't have "hold capital for X years and win the civil war" thing that Vae Victis has.

Well, keep in mind (to Chief Ragusa's comment about cavalry too), Caesar's big advantage is not in men -- it's in horses. He's got all of Gaul to his own, and that means horses, which means cavalry. Have to play to strengths, and that's his! Tell me more about the Vae Victis rules -- I am not that familiar with it, and have never played it. You have to have targets for holding territory over certain periods of time?

Rather then the Rebels worrying over losses in the southern sector, I think the Senate needs to worry about that "madman" Pictor and his soon to be victorious army breathing down the neck of Italy! Gabinius's shame will stain his family for seven times seven generations!! Hispania is really shaping up to be the more interesting theater.

Yes, Pictor is becoming quite popular, which makes you wonder if he might be a potential rival to Caesar in the future, eh? I was quite surprised by Hispania -- I expected it to be a holding action, there, at the Pyrrenes, until the rebellion happened, and everything started happening. Talk about events driving strategy.

Another update relatively soon! Before the end of the month, anyway, I am sure. And I guess I need to start playing Rome again before long, or else I won't have anything to write about! :)

Thanks again for your readership and comments!

Rensslaer
 

loki100

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there is a mechanism in VV to end civil wars. I think after 4 years, regardless of actual strength in the field the victor is simply the faction that holds the capital. Its a bit arbitrary, & I guess in game terms it provides a means to resolve an AI-AI well balanced civil war. I tend to think of it as a form of war weariness within a nation's aristocracy, looking for a means to resolve a situation that has spiralled out of control.
 

unmerged(471650)

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Just finished reading this. Will follow to the end. What year will that be?:D
 

Rensslaer

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there is a mechanism in VV to end civil wars. I think after 4 years, regardless of actual strength in the field the victor is simply the faction that holds the capital. Its a bit arbitrary, & I guess in game terms it provides a means to resolve an AI-AI well balanced civil war. I tend to think of it as a form of war weariness within a nation's aristocracy, looking for a means to resolve a situation that has spiralled out of control.

That's lame! :) Civil wars frequently last longer than that. The Roman Civil War (historically) was pretty drawn out, and I believe mine has potential to be longer.

Just finished reading this. Will follow to the end. What year will that be?:D

Haha! Very funny! :p Well, I've already mostly written a Kriegsgefahr update, so I should probably finish that one, but then I'll get right back to this one. Thanks for reading, and Welcome Dragonizer!

Rensslaer
 

unmerged(24320)

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Rensslaer: ... the Loyalist horde, under Gen. Gabinius (29,000 strong at the dawn of battle – down to 26,000 now) is trying to strangle the Rebellion’s hope at Paleoveneti, where Gen. Pictor leads 20,000 Rebels who have come to halt Gabinius. .. Pictor’s army has gotten the drop on Gabinius, whose army is suffering almost 4:1 casualties.

while those are nice enemy loses, can you afford to lose that many men?

Rensslaer: And, back in the Appenines, Agrippa has successfully lifted the siege at Ilergetes, the Loyalists taking nearly 20:1 casualties!

yeah, that is more like it ! !

Rensslaer: “doomstack” .. is defeated by Pictor. Gabinius “retreats” toward Bononia, in the south. Finding that Palloveneti is defended only by a small garrison, Gaius Octavius Pictor first assaults and recaptures the city, then marches after Gabinius toward a second showdown in Bononia.

do you remember the loss ratio in that first battle?

Rensslaer: ...Is the situation in southern Italy spinning out of control???

can you remember when you last ended an update without a hook? :rofl:

marvelous updates ! !
 

Forster

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Finally caught up. I am considering dusting off Rome. I bought it when it first came out and was very disappointed. Looks better. Great AAR.