The devil is in the details (bombing campaign)

[TheMeInTeam]

Now that i think about it. Why people are frustrated with battleplans and it is better to micromanage without them. The irrational shuffling of divisions have dismayed me to no end in my recent Italian campaign. Managing troop positions is like playing a chess. You don't want the computer to help you decide the position randomly.

Yes, the poor positioning and movement choices by the battleplanner is part of the frustration. The other part is that you're punished for not using it in at least some capacity by eroding all of your planning bonus (or just most of it if you make plans then right click micro). So I'll often make a line to position troops on front, then remove it or assign units to a different front with a spearhead and constantly remake that spearhead order as needed to maintain planning bonus while creating pockets.

Obviously you can't do that kind of real time spearhead updating instantaneously, so the UI degradation introduced in WTT had a tangible + bad effect on MP games in addition to being a strict downgrade in UI for SP as well.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Yes, the poor positioning and movement choices by the battleplanner is part of the frustration. The other part is that you're punished for not using it in at least some capacity by eroding all of your planning bonus (or just most of it if you make plans then right click micro). So I'll often make a line to position troops on front, then remove it or assign units to a different front with a spearhead and constantly remake that spearhead order as needed to maintain planning bonus while creating pockets.

Obviously you can't do that kind of real time spearhead updating instantaneously, so the UI degradation introduced in WTT had a tangible + bad effect on MP games in addition to being a strict downgrade in UI for SP as well.

Just to clear up some confusion. When you say battleplan, are you saying the AI general that executed the attack order automatically? Or the part when you draw the frontline but you micro the division momvement. The frontline drawn will still reassign the troops once a new breakthrough is created.


If it is the latter, how do you reassign the units quickly? I have tried a campaign of German invading Poland without the frontlines on all the time, but it is extremely slow and boring. The divisions at the back need to be manually deployed to the front. Does playing this game like a chess work?

Because I have found the best combination is to use both frontlines and micro. You let the frontlines on all the time, but you also micro intensively. If a unit is at wrong position, you can do Control H to detach it from army order

Check
12:05

 

[I had a bad name 99]

For example:

This would be an extremely hardcore micromanagement but realistic way of portraying war. You move each division like chess pieces. Meaning having plenty of reserves behind the line and in other parts of the front. You also can't expect to end war earlier, and may have to fight in multiple fronts (Like in real life, Japan have troops in Manchuria against the Soviets, in Pacific Islands against US, and in China against the Chinese United Front. They wouldn't be able to cheese like in game -- meaning take out China first immediately). I also have to play at the slowest speed -- meaning extremely grueling and slow.

Another way is to draw frontline but you still do the micromanagement. This may allows me to end the war in China quicker, as I pull most divisions from other theaters and concentrate on this one. Of course, the AI will do the random reshuffling, but your micromanagement takes precedence (Do Control H to detach divisions). Using this method, I am able to cheese by first taking out China and subjugating it. Then I can focus on either Soviet Union or USA. I am able to play at speed 3 minimum -- a faster pace and more exciting campaign, but unrealistic...

Which style do you prefer?

I have tried the second one, and was able to do quite a number of impressive encirclement. This is how far I was able to advance. But today, I suddenly feel that it is not really a realistic portray of war, and wanted to try the first style. I will see how.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If it is the latter, how do you reassign the units quickly? I have tried a campaign of German invading Poland without the frontlines on all the time, but it is extremely slow and boring. The divisions at the back need to be manually deployed to the front. Does playing this game like a chess work?

Yes, because in SP you can pause as much as you need to update orders. Once you're used to all the hotkeys you can go a little faster, and use this in limited capacity against the AI even at 2-3 speed without pausing. Better to look up on wiki or a YT guide for when to control click, use control-h to kick selected units out of orders, etc.

Edit: here are some examples of what it might look like:




Or from earlier in that game:



Or in less orthodox areas to fight + harder terrain:

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Yes, because in SP you can pause as much as you need to update orders. Once you're used to all the hotkeys you can go a little faster, and use this in limited capacity against the AI even at 2-3 speed without pausing. Better to look up on wiki or a YT guide for when to control click, use control-h to kick selected units out of orders, etc.

Sorry for being fussy about the details. But I am just trying to bring my micromanagement to a higher level.

Edit: here are some examples of what it might look like:




Or from earlier in that game:



Or in less orthodox areas to fight + harder terrain:

Okay, what I meant actually is should I put the plan on, all the time, for the main infantry line (the one defending the border, while your panzer divisions do the breakthrough in narrow sectors)? Because what happen is that the main infantry line will reshuffle divisions randomly, especially after your panzer divisions do the breakthrough. Of course, the one advantage is that you don't have to manually deploy divisions to fill in the gaps created by the panzers. Another advantage is that it can automatically reinforce a heavily attacked sector with nearby divisions.

You can refer to the picture below. The red arrow pointing to the dark blue line. I am wondering whether it is necessary to turn this on all the time.

 

[Neal Mac]

I have not read every page, so forgive me if this was covered. You should at least try a mod with advanced tech lines like "Ultimate tech tree".
I just gave it a spin and it isn't perfect, but it does add a lot as time goes on. I am just about to finish WW2 in 1953, mostly because when I used the focus to take PI as Japan it lumped me in with "Germany Luxembourg" war, despite not being aligned with Axis or Germany, and the Germany had no desire to EVER invade the US, so I had to do it by myself to finally end the war.
I had a guy on my friend list send me a "What are you doing playing in 1952?" LOL!
I like open ended games myself, but at some point the challenge is gone. So hopefully I make it through viet nam era.
But you play how you enjoy playing and don't worry about what anyone else thinks. Good luck, and i agree with those who are saying don't bomb infrastructure unless as a last resort. Especially right before a Naval invasion, or you will spend time trying to rebuild it to get your army moving again.

 

[Neal Mac]

This is a taste of what it looks like. I should have scrolled down further. I forget what year it ends.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

View attachment 583803

This is a taste of what it looks like. I should have scrolled down further. I forget what year it ends.

This is a well-made tree. Regrettably, I rarely use mods because partly, I don't want the developers to be lazy and let the gaming community do the "patching" for them. After all, we pay so much for the game, and they have to improve the tree.

 

[Neal Mac]

Here I am in 1953. You can't tell unless I zoom in but the US is on the ropes big time. I am about to storm up the east coast practically at will. The mountains to the west will take longer.

And here is the Tech tree to 1970 where it ends.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I usually make big lines with regular infantry for pre-war positioning, then delete it and micro if it's a close war and my resources are scarce.

If I have extra troops, I leave them on a big line but will have a separate infantry filler force to follow breakthrough divisions, or control-h a division or two out of the breakthrough stack as it progresses so they just sit there defending the province.

Only the troops attacking to push enemies out benefit a lot from the planning bonus, pinning attacks are slightly less efficient w/o planning bonus but the relative value of that is small. So it is okay to only use spearheads with specialized divisions and micro the rest to optimize movement. If you are feeling lazy, you can instead only micro stuff directly related to the breakthrough.

Either way, do not count on the battleplanner to move units behind your spearhead to cover their advance. It will just let you get encircled.

You can refer to the picture below. The red arrow pointing to the dark blue line. I am wondering whether it is necessary to turn this on all the time.

It is not, I was being somewhat lazy. The 24 stack was large enough that they could cover their own breakthrough.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

I usually make big lines with regular infantry for pre-war positioning, then delete it and micro if it's a close war and my resources are scarce.

If I have extra troops, I leave them on a big line but will have a separate infantry filler force to follow breakthrough divisions, or control-h a division or two out of the breakthrough stack as it progresses so they just sit there defending the province.

Only the troops attacking to push enemies out benefit a lot from the planning bonus, pinning attacks are slightly less efficient w/o planning bonus but the relative value of that is small. So it is okay to only use spearheads with specialized divisions and micro the rest to optimize movement. If you are feeling lazy, you can instead only micro stuff directly related to the breakthrough.

Either way, do not count on the battleplanner to move units behind your spearhead to cover their advance. It will just let you get encircled.



It is not, I was being somewhat lazy. The 24 stack was large enough that they could cover their own breakthrough.

That is quite reassuring to hear that.

On a side note, I do hope the game can improve the diplomacy better. Like I dont want to fight all the way to Washington as Japan. Just want to secure all the territorial gains in Asia-Pacific and call it a day.

But of course, Yamamoto said, "Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it would not be enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians [who speak so lightly of a Japanese-American war] have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices."

 

[Neal Mac]

Hey, when you are playing into the 60's has the big war ended and you keep playing, or is it still ongoing? If it ended do countries still declare new wars, or do you do that yourself?

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Hey, when you are playing into the 60's has the big war ended and you keep playing, or is it still ongoing? If it ended do countries still declare new wars, or do you do that yourself?

Usually, I played into 1960s when I am trying to defeat a major faction like USA on my own (mainly). For example, as Japan, by then the Soviet Union has fallen to me (1950s as I was fighting it solo) and Germany, only a major faction like US remains. So I have to take it out without relying on the Germany because they will steal my land. After defeating USA, 1970-1980 is the period when I prep for war with the Axis. Because they absolutely outnumbered me in armies and airplanes, I have to prepare extensively for the final confrontation. I had one hardcore period when I spammed level 10 forts along the long borders in USSR and China (Doesn't work in nuclear warfare). Basically, the more detailed your setup, the easier the war when it comes.

And of course, after the big war (I assume WW2) ended, most countries do not declare war (probably some border conflicts happened) and I do everything by myself. I also forget to mention that I used this late period to one-by-one annex minor countries, especially in South America continent.

 

[Neal Mac]

Usually, I played into 1960s when I am trying to defeat a major faction like USA on my own (mainly). For example, as Japan, by then the Soviet Union has fallen to me (1950s as I was fighting it solo) and Germany, only a major faction like US remains. So I have to take it out without relying on the Germany because they will steal my land. After defeating USA, 1970-1980 is the period when I prep for war with the Axis. Because they absolutely outnumbered me in armies and airplanes, I have to prepare extensively for the final confrontation. I had one hardcore period when I spammed level 10 forts along the long borders in USSR and China (Doesn't work in nuclear warfare). Basically, the more detailed your setup, the easier the war when it comes.

And of course, after the big war (I assume WW2) ended, most countries do not declare war (probably some border conflicts happened) and I do everything by myself. I also forget to mention that I used this late period to one-by-one annex minor countries, especially in South America continent.

Yeah, I think it will be easy to create a story where I need to fight Germany after the peace conference is over, for their taking my land I took in WW2. Like I said I never allied with them and never fought alongside them or Italy, so when they take land they never even fought for I will want to make a stand. I am actually going to be #1 in PC points and will not do anything cheesy like claim something in Europe etc. I am sure I cannot count on them to not take Pearl Harbor or the Philippines.
Do they still stick together as Axis after the war?

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Yeah, I think it will be easy to create a story where I need to fight Germany after the peace conference is over, for their taking my land I took in WW2. Like I said I never allied with them and never fought alongside them or Italy, so when they take land they never even fought for I will want to make a stand. I am actually going to be #1 in PC points and will not do anything cheesy like claim something in Europe etc. I am sure I cannot count on them to not take Pearl Harbor or the Philippines.
Do they still stick together as Axis after the war?

Yes of course, the Axis will not be disbanded. I have to eventually DOW on Germany because they took my SEA land. Of course, I also have the desire for world conquest so that plays a huge role too. But now in my current Japanese campaign, I mellowed a lot and wanted to play a bit more conservative. Don't want to end up fighting a huge war with the Axis. Just want to create the historical Asia-Pacific pact.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Just want to share what I am doing now. I managed to hold onto the Eastern coast holdings, like they did historically. And limited the use of battleplans which create a huge mess in my micromanagement.

Fun fact: The AI attack on my garrison forces on the East Coast was especially fierce that I had to deploy most of my battleships and heavy cruisers to provide artillery support. This is the fun part of HOI4 -- to learn to master combined arms warfare

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Meanwhile, I am doing a surgical pincer movement with my three panzers.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

AI is finally exhausted after THREE months of relentless assault. Now is time for a breakout?

 

[Neal Mac]

Just want to share what I am doing now. I managed to hold onto the Eastern coast holdings, like they did historically. And limited the use of battleplans which create a huge mess in my micromanagement.

Fun fact: The AI attack on my garrison forces on the East Coast was especially fierce that I had to deploy most of my battleships and heavy cruisers to provide artillery support. This is the fun part of HOI4 -- to learn to master combined arms warfare

That is pretty good imo!
I had to look back at where I was in Sept 39, just for comparison. I had not near the progress in the north, but it is my first play through as Japan.

3 divisions holding down Fuzhou?!?!?! Wow!!!! I am impressed.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

That is pretty good imo!
I had to look back at where I was in Sept 39, just for comparison. I had not near the progress in the north, but it is my first play through as Japan.



View attachment 583815



3 divisions holding down Fuzhou?!?!?! Wow!!!! I am impressed.

View attachment 583816

Thanks. Not all are rosy though. In defending one of my ports, a division (with full combat strength) totally vanguished! Reason being its organisation is extremely low when arriving at the port. I notice naval transfer (not invasion) will automatically bring down your initial organisation from full to 10%. Hence, use naval transfer to port that is not under attack. You need time to recover organisation when it arrives. I found the best way is to retreat your current division from the port and let it rest near a nearby port. Once you received new reinforcement (like three more divisions), then sent the four divisions to recapture the port. That way they will have full organisation upon reaching it.