The devil is in the details (bombing campaign)

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Apr 13, 2020
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I have noticed that it is helpful to always wait for a month or more to soften enemy positions, before you sent in your invasion forces. And this means complete air superiority while your tactical or strat bombers go in to hit the various infrastructure. Don't send in your forces immediately. Wait at the borders. Also, good to let your air forces kill theirs so they don't recover and attack your invading forces with CAS. That way, you can just march in your forces with as little opposition as possible.


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Damaged roads, damaged ports -- all help to slow down reinforcements. :) Meanwhile, you can choke the enemy supplies with submarines.

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Matoro_TBS

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I disagree completely. Now this works in some situations, but if you're playing the more technologically advanced nation, you do need those ports and that infra a lot more than your enemies need. In low infra situation even basic infantry can stand their ground against low-supply tanks. By destroying the infra you're actually hurting your own offensive with very little gain.
Striking at logistics does work sometimes when there's clear supply bottleneck you can hit. Like bombing down the port an invasion is using as their beachhead. I would never bomb infra in Asia if I'm going to conquer that region - it's just going to hurt my troops more and cause more attrition.

Tbh in your example you have like twice their numbers and complete technological superiority. You would've probably got identical results even without any strat bombing. With relatively small nation like Siam bombing the infra doesn't however backfire as bad as it could, but if you're for example bombing Chinese or Soviet infra, you're going to hurt your advance in the long run.
 
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Emren

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By the looks of it, I think you would have overrun them no matter what your attack plan was...

Also, I have never played until 1963, and I definitely never will. :D
 
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Apr 13, 2020
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I disagree completely. Now this works in some situations, but if you're playing the more technologically advanced nation, you do need those ports and that infra a lot more than your enemies need. In low infra situation even basic infantry can stand their ground against low-supply tanks. By destroying the infra you're actually hurting your own offensive with very little gain.
Striking at logistics does work sometimes when there's clear supply bottleneck you can hit. Like bombing down the port an invasion is using as their beachhead. I would never bomb infra in Asia if I'm going to conquer that region - it's just going to hurt my troops more and cause more attrition.

Tbh in your example you have like twice their numbers and complete technological superiority. You would've probably got identical results even without any strat bombing. With relatively small nation like Siam bombing the infra doesn't however backfire as bad as it could, but if you're for example bombing Chinese or Soviet infra, you're going to hurt your advance in the long run.

I agree with what you said. Basically, I am just using Siam as a testing ground to "practice" my carpet bombing strategy. I am definitely aware of the possible supply problem, so I always check before I advanced. Basically, cheesy as it may sounds, I am just a bit inspired by American strategy of overwhelming fire and advance. I believe they used this a lot in their campaign against Germany in Normandy and Japanese in Pacific islands, even though they had COMPLETE air and artillery superiority. They would call upon powerful artillery and air strikes on enemy positions ahead, before the infantry advances. In Normandy, the infrastructure was damaged so badly that Germany had difficulty reinforcing their defensive perimeter around beachhead.

Also, if you looked at the green and red bar below Erwin Rommel, you will notice that the odds were roughly equal. In an attack on entrenched position, you need a 3:1 odds for a swift and successful attack. Even though Siam has less troops than me, at this late-game stage, they have maxed out their techs and their divisions are probably buffed up (40 combat width). Their soft attack is probably 500 and above, defense wise, the stat is probably at least 1000. So, yes, good to soften them up.

How to soften them up? CAS is one. Destroying their IC so they have difficulty reinforcing troops with lost equipment, easy for me to overcome their entrenched positions. Of course, this may be an overkill. But isn't that is how America has fought their war? Against Iraq, Vietnam and Japan, they have relied on their superior firepower to break up enemy lines.

Edit: In fact, I made an effort to make sure my tech is up to date. I only use a small number of powerful jets to do the damage. All my troops are also equipped with most modern weapons. They are not too many with crude technologies, like China and Russia.
 
Apr 13, 2020
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I won't make an "outrageous" claim if I can't back it up. You will get this kind of "poorly designed" offensive if you just rush in there without thought. Any noob can just click on the battleplanner and let the computer do the job, but you will get a lot of red attacks. I believe the mark of an efficient player is to get as many green attacks as possible, so you don't suffer unnecessary casualties. The computer already indicates that the odds are strongly equal. And why isn't it good to have multiple red attacks for an extended period? Because you will start losing equipment and manpower on a daily basis. This is okay in a small theater like this, but what about a large theater?

I don't consider myself a pro player. I am not noob too. I am a veteran player, who have completed elite and veteran campaigns for several nations (Except Italy currently on elite). So I consider my own reputation solid, not stellar nor terrible.


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SophieX

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Basically, I am just using Siam as a testing ground to "practice" my carpet bombing strategy

Did you use only the strat-bomb-icon ( yellow one ) for your wing-order?
Or do you use the "target" order choosing special groups like docks, ports, civ-factories air-bases etc. ?

I always try to avoid damaging the infra of a country that I planned to conquer in the following step for the reasons statet by @Matoro_TBS above
 
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Emren

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I also have to wonder whether the "generals" or "brigadier generals" here have actually completed the game on hardest difficulty. If not I will be more convinced by their words. Like I always believe, it is the action and results that speak more than fanciful ranks and promises. So, why do you care so much about how I play my game, whether late or not? As long as I complete my campaign...

Edit: Taurer, Dustin (both awesome Youtubers) have shown walkthroughs on how to complete world conquest for Germany before 1940. I can do that easily by following their steps.

I didn't mean to say that you are slow. For me, I lose interest in the game once the tech trees are around 80% done, so I typically don't finish the war. I think 1936-1944 typically are the most fun years, the rest is a grind.
I don't care how you play at all, and I will refrain from commenting in your threads.
 
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Apr 13, 2020
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2.39 Million dead at the cost of 3k. Basically I just use nukes.


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I didn't mean to say that you are slow. For me, I lose interest in the game once the tech trees are around 80% done, so I typically don't finish the war. I think 1936-1944 typically are the most fun years, the rest is a grind.
I don't care how you play at all, and I will refrain from commenting in your threads.
 
Apr 13, 2020
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I didn't mean to say that you are slow. For me, I lose interest in the game once the tech trees are around 80% done, so I typically don't finish the war. I think 1936-1944 typically are the most fun years, the rest is a grind.
I don't care how you play at all, and I will refrain from commenting in your threads.

Well, I can play that long is because I avoid the grind at all cost. If there is a grind, I would reload the save file, and try a new method. I don't participate in war where there is no clear outcome; basically, a swift conclusion is what I seek. So I don't actually work harder, but smarter. I am just "cheating" by testing different methods.

And I do sometimes end war earlier. Especially when I play as democratic nation, where I am not aiming for world domination. My earliest end was at 1945, as UK, where my goal is to simply defeat the Nazi Germany and USSR, alongside with my Allies. My goal then was simply a decolonised world.

My longest campaign was as Japan. I actually played into 1980s. But I was able to win and defeat the Axis power. By doing a pre-empty strike (the Axis planes were still on the ground when I DOW) -- nuking the entire industry. The Axis forces were so paralysed, low on fuel, that pushing from Russia to Berlin was actually easy.

I am currently stuck as Italy, also in my late 1980s. This time though, I couldn't think of an easy way to defeat the Axis. So I just stop playing. Probably will come back since a guy here suggested the use of SPAA to remove air penalty -- my biggest problem, since Axis has 3 times my air forces.
 
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Apr 13, 2020
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Did you use only the strat-bomb-icon ( yellow one ) for your wing-order?
Or do you use the "target" order choosing special groups like docks, ports, civ-factories air-bases etc. ?

I always try to avoid damaging the infra of a country that I planned to conquer in the following step for the reasons statet by @Matoro_TBS above

I am playing vanilla, so I can't choose my target.

I destroy infrastructure only because it is easier to defeat a nation with bad IC. Throughout my playthrough, supply is rarely an issue. Just my style though.
 
Apr 13, 2020
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Also, I don't apologise for getting personal with some of my comments today. I was once called a lunatic before for playing until 1980s, so I feel that I have the right to respond. Feel free to disagree with my way, but disrespect is something I don't condone. It just makes the community bad because everyone has their own play style and should not be mocked at.

1 + 1 = 2 or 0.5 * 4 = 2. It doesn't matter which way you do as long as you produce results.
 
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General Von Trapp

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In regards to the American bombing strategy in WW2, Eisenhower actually refused to give the go ahead of carpet bombing in support of troops. This was because hundreds of American soldiers in the 9th and 30th divisions were wounded and killed by friendly fire (bombers) when they were trying to force a hole in the German lines after the Normandy Invasion. I don’t believe it was given again until the battle of the bulge... for obvious reasons (hiding panzers) and panic.

in regards to HOI4... I agree that it kinda makes no sense to damage the infrastructure because you are hindering your future advance. In order to fix the supply problem you are going to need to fix the surrounding infrastructure which will allow the enemy to dig in, regroup and obviously cause you further problems at a loss of man power and equipment.

i think that the strategic bombers softening up the enemies factories and especially forts (if there are any) would make sense because this will help your advance and allow you to push past the forts. The only problem being if you get pushed back but repairing those forts then could be an option.

This all made me think of how cool land mines could be in the game... slowing movement down and taking man power losses as a result.
 
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Harin

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When I look at @EliteWehrmacht 's idea for the infrastructure bombing of Siam with the idea of how it can be right, instead of wrong, I suddenly see something viable there.

For one thing, this is a very late game, so the AI has many more and much better divisions than most players are used to playing against, such as fully equipped and teched out 40width divisions.

Second, Siam is a circle. there is no escape for the enemy. Bombing the infrastructure, sure hurts @EliteWehrmacht 's forces, but it might cause a much greater pain on Siam. As Siam retreats more and more troops into a smaller and bombed out infrastructure, the supply and attrition situation for Siam could escalate into a catastrophe. All of @EliteWehrmacht 's forces may not be able to advance, but as the results show, enough could.

Sometimes, a win can be achieved by not so much the methodical use of all your forces, but by causing more logistic pain on the bad guys than on your own troops. If you know you are pushing a numerically superior army into bad logistics, then that army has to spread deep leaving fewer divisions on the front line to face your attack, or risk high attrition to supply mechanics. Either choice they make is a win for you. There are not many places like that, but they exist.
 
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