The Developer Multiplayer Clash - Every Tuesday at 15:00CET

[Alienatu]

if kilwa, inca and korea don't do anything at this point in time, when their enemies are bled dry, then they don't deserve to win a trophy, and probably some of them won't, for being shortsighted in what's going to happen.everybody knows.
ethiopia should push their luck and declare a reconquest war against vij. it's make or break time.
as someone pointed earlier, laughable that pasai and majahapit join the coalition, that ripped their provinces from them, to fight daniel. guess we have new players aiming for the salt trophy.

kudos for otto who's pushing in scandinavia. admirable ))

 

[Lordban]

Other than that, he probably ought to have been going over forcelimit from the start just to get better coverage of the whole island (he had +35 income and over 7k in the bank with no loans. No reason to save money in times like that). Or, if he opposed going over force limit, disband the 60k in England and build way more in Brunei. He had plenty of time, plus he left that 3 star general on the far side of the world.

Shortly before the war, Da9l needed to make sure he wouldn't empty his manpowerpool. That's the big "con" against going over FL in this 1v6 scenario, those extra units aren't really doing anything for him past the first battle if he needs to start consolidating right after it, and because the extra army or two mean extra artillery, that's also so much frontline infantry that can't be replaced out of the manpowerpool (he had a 112k pool, not even covering the replacement of the entire infantry line on the island to begin with, and more than six times less depth than his combined enemies, who also enjoy more merc pools).

The coverage of the whole non-fortified parts of the island may also be a false good idea. True, that would have meant being the defender in whichever battle began - and that his troops would have been dispersed around the entire island, which Da9l always tried to avoid so he could concentrate against an invader. Those additional spaces would have meant opportunities to cut off the landing site from reinforcements and stackwiping his army bit by bit - the combined landing forces have been in the vicinity of ~250k-400k depending on which landing we're talking about, that's plenty to toy with for competent players like Ihki and especially StarNaN, who wouldn't have missed out on the opportunities offered by dispersed Brunei troops.

In the end, better to be able to concentrate and respond while taking penalties - it's a better alternative to losing a stack and the landing site anyway.

 

[Bella Gerant]

Shortly before the war, Da9l needed to make sure he wouldn't empty his manpowerpool. That's the big "con" against going over FL in this 1v6 scenario, those extra units aren't really doing anything for him past the first battle if he needs to start consolidating right after it, and because the extra army or two mean extra artillery, that's also so much frontline infantry that can't be replaced out of the manpowerpool (he had a 112k pool, not even covering the replacement of the entire infantry line on the island to begin with, and more than six times less depth than his combined enemies, who also enjoy more merc pools).

Generally, when you've got a couple thousand ducats in the bank, you go over forcelimit with mercs, no? I'm aware he couldn't really afford to spend more of his manpower but he had far more money than he needed and that ought to have been put into the defense instead of sitting.

The coverage of the whole non-fortified parts of the island may also be a false good idea. True, that would have meant being the defender in whichever battle began - and that his troops would have been dispersed around the entire island, which Da9l always tried to avoid so he could concentrate against an invader. Those additional spaces would have meant opportunities to cut off the landing site from reinforcements and stackwiping his army bit by bit - the combined landing forces have been in the vicinity of ~250k-400k depending on which landing we're talking about, that's plenty to toy with for competent players like Ihki and especially StarNaN, who wouldn't have missed out on the opportunities offered by dispersed Brunei troops.

In the end, better to be able to concentrate and respond while taking penalties - it's a better alternative to losing a stack and the landing site anyway.

That's not to advocate just sitting on provinces and waiting. Unless the 6 were coordinating better (which they weren't seeing as how long it took them to actually make a beachhead), I don't see them being able to cut off enough reinforcements, not with forced march on.

But perhaps you're right in that regard (I hold that he should've built more mercs at the start though), I'm more used to Victoria 2 combat. I miss army cycling...

 

[Lordban]

The thing there is the mercenary pool isn't bottomless either, and that's another source for refilling the infantry lines. It's pretty much the same logic as the conservation of regular manpower: you can either put another army in the field or boost the staying power of the ones you have.

I miss army cycling too. Not going to be able to make the French defense of Verdun with EU systems

 

[Da9L]

Why did salty Daniel move his capital back to Brunei when London would've been infinitely more defensible (due to the sheer difficulty of moving a million troops across all of Asia by boats)? Culture shifting to English and taking British ideas would make him nigh unbeatable by sea and, seeing as all of his holdings are islands...

Other than that, he probably ought to have been going over forcelimit from the start just to get better coverage of the whole island (he had +35 income and over 7k in the bank with no loans. No reason to save money in times like that). Or, if he opposed going over force limit, disband the 60k in England and build way more in Brunei. He had plenty of time, plus he left that 3 star general on the far side of the world.

Effectively this. If he had better coverage of his home island (at minimum every non-fort province), he wouldn't have ever needed to take an offensive penalty, thus preserving his own manpower and money in the face of however many troops sent by sea.

There's also the fact that literally all Korea or Ethiopia have to do at this point is just waltz into Dai Nam/Vijay lands and say "this is mine now" to take stuff, seeing as their entire armies are stuck weeks away in the East Indies.

Comon @TheLetterZ, Korea for the Dragon Throne! Become the Emperor Choson to rule the world!

Unbeatable? 500+ heavy vs around my 120, and it's impossible for me to culture switch, I need more than 50% of a culture to be able to switch and that would have been impossible.
And it would have been much harder for me to stackwipe them if I were in England than in my homeland.

I was 30-40+ over my force limit when they begun the war.

What I should have done was to place all my troops in none-fort provinces and ignored the ones with fort.

I was hoping for it, but I think it might be too late now. All I can hope for is that all of them are sick next week but we still for some reason decide to continue playing.

 

[Lordban]

You can hope for the leading players on the scoreboard to realize they are even less prepared than you are ^^

 

[ForzaA]

Unbeatable? 500+ heavy vs around my 120, and it's impossible for me to culture switch, I need more than 50% of a culture to be able to switch and that would have been impossible.

Hey now, just because the numbers were stacked against you, there's really no need to "tweak" the number of heavies to such a degree

 

[sabrewolfacs]

Hey now, just because the numbers were stacked against you, there's really no need to "tweak" the number of heavies to such a degree

I do not think he had time to check how many of those ships were heavies
I was surprised to see Rufo (with naval ideas) having >90 heavy ships, just half a session after having half of his home island ripped out of his empire, including the center of trade.

Some questions to the large alliance to just gang-raped Brunei:
I understand that you needed many players on board because you could not have known for sure that Inca would not help out his trusted ally... but:

• Why was it VJ to declare the war despite having no strategic interest there?
  I can sort of see Pasai/Majapahit did not want to be shafted again and thus joined indochinese bullies to get back at the ally who failed to answer the call-to-arms... and they've got victory cards.
  But why the Indians? Is it to distract from the fact that Indochina and India should be fighting each other?
  
  
• Why Brunei? It is Inca, Korea and Kilwa running away with the points... [and Ottomans and France ]
  
  
• And something all of us spectators are wondering: who is actually pulling the strings here? Back in the last DevMP it seemed to be Johan (anti-hegemony) and Ethiopia (leading 'hindmost'-style from Ringworld)
  
  
• To those without ambitions to win trophies (Mong Yang, Ayuthhaya and to a lesser extent Uesugi): why not make the game exciting and surprise your dominators in a slave revolt ?
  More an appeal than a question: many viewers would greatly appreciate it and it is not breaking a promise if you take away the whip from your slavemasters

 

[Zerodv]

I think Brunei was the first step before attacking the Inca, at least I hope. That nation has enjoyed too much it´s easy spot on the map isolated from others.

 

[Gratak]

I do not think he had time to check how many of those ships were heavies
I was surprised to see Rufo (with naval ideas) having >90 heavy ships, just half a session after having half of his home island ripped out of his empire, including the center of trade.

I guess he got some money from the emperor. But I'm wondering how he ever managed to lose that first war with those naval ideas. He should have been easily able to protect his core land with no more than 30 heavies.

 

[Dnote]

Slave revolt? The Great Shogun, of Clan Uesugi, is a slave of no one!

 

[Gratak]

Slave revolt? The Great Shogun, of Clan Uesugi, is a slave of no one!

Well then show us that is true by attacking the guy who claims to be emperor of all of China. I guess, considering that you claim a big chunk of China as your own, you can hardly let that claim go unpunished.

 

[Frogbait]

Honestly surprised @Da9L is left alone for this. Was kind of expecting end of session to be left in war so deals could be made. If people get an alliance with Brunei they can get called into the defensive war and ignore any and all truces, let alone not get screwed over by separate wars. Korea and Usaegi in particular look llike they'd be the best positioned for this war. Ethiopia has too many 3rd powers able to join and punish him if he joins on the side of Brunei to be a realistic options. Inca seems like they were held at gunpoint and forced out alliance wise. Now with that gun taken away, joining in the war to help their game long ally in exchange for say Galapagos would be pretty fair.

 

[B3ndolf]

last campaign starnan complained about being ganged up on and went on and on about how he hates hug boxes and likes fair fights.........this campaign he leads the biggest hugbox ever seen all game long..........i think he needs to make up his mind.

and i also think the second half of this campaign ever since the end of the indian thunderdome has been very disappointing and even that was ended badly with another massively one sided war, one sided wars are not interesting to watch, i cant imagine they are that interesting to fight either.

i can only hope that the rest of the world comes to its senses and does something about that hugbox before its too late (if it isnt already), if they cant be motivated to do it through a sense of self preservation then at least for the sake of entertainment

 

[Da9L]

This song feel very fitting, but change Russian to Dai Viet/Persian and 20 000 to 200 000 and it's pretty much perfect.
(well, Poltava is Brunei of course).

 

[Wagonlitz]

@Dnote do you want to stay as Uesugi or eventually form Japan? Because if the former then the AI screwed you over since it formed Japan today.

 

[Bratyn]

The world according to the indigenous populations of the Inca Colonies across the Great Ocean, in "1779AD".

####################
## STATS FOR MP ###
####################
Current Score

1. Inca 19627 (+11.57)
2. Ottomans 19260 (+3.36)
3. France 17574 (+11.55)
4. Persia 13807 (+8.15)
5. Dai Viet 11337 (+5.81)
6. Majapahit 10403 (+4.39)
7. Brunei 9437 (+9.57)
8. Korea 8674 (+3.36)
9. Kilwa 8158 (+5.10)
10. Mali 7238 (+2.00)
11. Mong Yang 6602 (+2.71)
12. Scandinavia 6404 (+1.00)
13. Vijayanagar 6302 (+4.76)
14. Ayutthaya 4624 (+0.68)
15. Poland 3911 (+1.00)
16. Ethiopia 3758 (+0.00)
17. Japan 2702 (+1.00)
18. Naples 2294 (+1.00)
19. Pasai 416 (+1.36)
20. Castile 279 (+0.00)

Development

1. Ottomans 2253
2. Inca 1874
3. France 1641
4. Persia 1631
5. Dai Viet 1614
6. Kilwa 1554
7. Vijayanagar 1209
8. Brunei 1111
9. Korea 1000
10. Mong Yang 862
11. Japan 840
12. Poland 776
13. Mali 744
14. Ayutthaya 681
15. Bruxico 680
16. Majapahit 676
17. Naples 634
18. Scandinavia 563
19. Brunifonia 461
20. Ethiopia 457

Income

1. Inca 501.64
2. Brunei 479.11
3. Persia 475.19
4. France 271.47
5. Dai Viet 263.92
6. Kilwa 260.26
7. Ottomans 249.10
8. Mong Yang 243.41
9. Vijayanagar 211.07
10. Korea 195.12
11. Majapahit 163.59
12. Ayutthaya 107.55
13. Japan 105.88
14. Naples 97.81
15. Poland 97.20
16. Mali 93.96
17. Pasai 70.10
18. Scandinavia 68.72
19. Bruxico 58.44
20. Brunifonia 55.20

Max. Manpower

1. France 272k
2. Persia 259k
3. Ottomans 204k
4. Dai Viet 184k
5. Korea 170k
6. Vijayanagar 163k
7. Inca 160k
8. Mong Yang 140k
9. Brunei 134k
10. Japan 132k
11. Poland 132k
12. Kilwa 131k
13. Ayutthaya 90,164
14. Mali 83,531
15. Ethiopia 75,163
16. Majapahit 69,061
17. Pasai 68,809
18. Naples 68,067
19. Bruxico 63,017
20. Brumerica 57,270

Standing Army

1. Brunei 347k
2. Persia 320k
3. Dai Viet 240k
4. Vijayanagar 237k
5. France 230k
6. Inca 228k
7. Korea 216k
8. Kilwa 193k
9. Ottomans 188k
10. Mong Yang 170k
11. Japan 134k
12. Mali 103k
13. Ethiopia 100k
14. Scandinavia 89,641
15. Ayutthaya 78,000
16. Majapahit 68,000
17. Poland 67,098
18. Naples 58,544
19. Brunifonia 58,000
20. Parma 50,445

War Fleet

1. Inca 150/0
2. Persia 127/0
3. Ottomans 13/88
4. Majapahit 100/0
5. Ayutthaya 77/0
6. Brunei 76/0
7. Pasai 55/0
8. France 42/0
9. Kilwa 41/0
10. Venice 4/34
11. Naples 18/17
12. Dai Viet 30/0
13. Japan 14/10
14. Korea 13/6
15. Livonian Order 0/16
16. Poland 1/14
17. Vijayanagar 10/0
18. Parma 0/7
19. Genoa 0/7
20. Mali 5/0

Trade Fleet

1. Brunei 248
2. Inca 182
3. France 86
4. Dai Viet 48
5. Korea 40
6. Inca Minor 33
7. Japan 30
8. Mong Yang 30
9. Naples 28
10. Majapahit 27
11. Vijayanagar 22
12. French Canada 22
13. Brunifonia 19
14. Brumerica 19
15. Majapahit Australia 17
16. Brulombia 17
17. Ottomans 15
18. Venice 14
19. Malacca 14
20. Poland 13

Technologies

1. Brunei 87
2. Inca 87
3. France 87
4. Dai Viet 87
5. Majapahit 87
6. Poland 87
7. Parma 87
8. Gelre 87
9. Ayutthaya 87
10. Ansbach 87
11. Shirvan 87
12. Inca Minor 86
13. Brunifonia 86
14. Brumerica 86
15. Brulombia 86
16. Ottomans 86
17. Venice 86
18. Malacca 86
19. Brunanada 86
20. Bruneian Louisiana 86

Great Power

1. Ottomans 2253
2. Brunei 2101
3. Inca 2000
4. France 1885
5. Persia 1631
6. Dai Viet 1614
7. Kilwa 1554
8. Vijayanagar 1238
   [~]Korea 1000
   [~]Japan 840
   [~]Majapahit 807
   [~]Poland 776
   [~]Mali 744
   [~]Naples 634
   [~]Ayutthaya 567
   [~]Scandinavia 563
   [~]Ethiopia 457
   [~]Pasai 412
   [~]Parma 361
   [~]Lithuania 342

 

[Wagonlitz]

• Inca 19627 (+11.57)

• Ottomans 19260 (+3.36)

• France 17574 (+11.55)

I frankly think that it's a bit "cheating" to have that rule about the AI not being able to get trophies. Because how can you really say you got say 2nd place if there's two AIs above you? Especially given that the AI has the huge disadvantage that it's an AI and not a human.


@gnievom for AI trophy 2017!

 

[Lordban]

Time to catch up after work. The stats and map tell me I'm not going to like this x)

 

[Lordban]

Yeah, I didn't like it That was the one chance to break the Hugbox, and unfortunately, it wasn't enough.

So basically, the Hugbox have 42 years to somehow get to South America, or to sacrifice one of their own number to a winner among them and defend Spain. That's not going to make for a great session...

And I hold that Da9l has earned his military trophy. I mean, he fared better on his own against the hugbox than the rest of the players... In any case, gladly offering a song tribute to his bravery in that one.