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unmerged(2540)

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So do the incas, Aztecs, anyone who has alot of gold and not much else. try a game as one of those 2. Fun fun :D
but Gold already has a serious detriment. The thing is, since most players get the gold as part of comquest of Aztecs, Incas or both, they usually have recourse(most notably,building mayors) Try it as the Iroquois who cannot build anything :(. As it stands, either make it even across the board,or allow my beloved Iroquois to build mayors :D(please please please please please please please please please :p )
 

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Originally posted by Honour_Shogun
So do the incas, Aztecs, anyone who has alot of gold and not much else. try a game as one of those 2. Fun fun :D
but Gold already has a serious detriment. The thing is, since most players get the gold as part of comquest of Aztecs, Incas or both, they usually have recourse(most notably,building mayors) Try it as the Iroquois who cannot build anything :(. As it stands, either make it even across the board,or allow my beloved Iroquois to build mayors :D(please please please please please please please please please :p )

I think that what they really oughta do is get rid of the whole "governor can just eliminate inflation" thing and figure out a better way to model the disastrous effects that the huge influx of gold and silver had on the Spanish economy over the course of a 150 years or so and a better way to reduce this inflationary effect than just appointing a governor or two here and there. That makes it too easy, IMHO.
 

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Originally posted by Heliumgod


I think that what they really oughta do is get rid of the whole "governor can just eliminate inflation" thing and figure out a better way to model the disastrous effects that the huge influx of gold and silver had on the Spanish economy over the course of a 150 years or so and a better way to reduce this inflationary effect than just appointing a governor or two here and there. That makes it too easy, IMHO.

the real issue is this- that Spain, by having a mssive empire- can BETTER control inflation than a two province minor. More governors = less inflation so Spain with 40% inflation can pretty easily reduce that figure to zero while Baden is totally out of luck.
 

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And so are the Iroquois:)D cannot even build governors. And my inflation is 53% now, partly because of loans, mainly because of gold. sigh :p )
 

unmerged(3599)

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I have an idea (Gold to Production Ratio)

I propose a simple and more accurate model. Money chasing goods

GP = Gold production in Ducca
NGP = Non-Gold product in Ducca
NSPR = Non-subsistance production ratio, the percentage of products used for trade (non subsistance higher base on trade level)

Formula:
annual Inflation = GP/(NGPxNSPR) - 1

Example 1: Russia 1600 (with Samara)

GP = 80 Ducca
NGP = 250 Ducca
NSPR = 40%
Inflation = 80/(250*40%) - 1 = Negative (no gold-related inflation)
(Moral: Healthy dose of gold is no problem.)

Exmaple 2: Aztec 1492

GP = 500 Ducca
NGP = 200 Ducca
NSPR = 25%

Inflation = 500/(200*25%) - 1 = 900%
(Moral: Too many money chasing too little good)

Example 3: Spain 1600 (With Aztec Annexed)
GP = 500 Ducca
NGP = 400
NSPR = 25%
Inlfation = 500/(400*25%) - 1 = 400%
(Moral: Too many money chasing a little bit more goods)

Example 4: Spain 1700 (with trade level improved and governors appointed)

GP = 500 Ducca
NGP = 400
NSPR = 75%
Inflation = 500/(400*75%) - 1 = 66%
(Moral: Increased trade levels and trade flow alieviate inflation)

To simplified the whole thing. NSPR can be ingored (count as 100%).
then the equation will be Inflation = (GP/NGP) - 1

Please also check out my post on resource/production.

By
A wreck on the great south sea.
 

unmerged(4273)

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Originally posted by Sidney


the real issue is this- that Spain, by having a mssive empire- can BETTER control inflation than a two province minor. More governors = less inflation so Spain with 40% inflation can pretty easily reduce that figure to zero while Baden is totally out of luck.

This is definitely an issue -- however, I think that the overall issue here is that the governors=reduced inflation equation is simply . . . inadequate and overly simple. What you bring up is, IMHO, a serious side-effect of the larger problem.

I guess that I see a lot of historical accuracy in having inflation being a larger and far more detrimental force in the game, considering that inflation is one of those things that continues to be a problem today and was a problem throughout the era being modelled in the game. Modelling this would probably be a significant effort, though.
 

unmerged(3408)

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I think that what they really oughta do is get rid of the whole "governor can just eliminate inflation" thing and figure out a better way to model the disastrous effects that the huge influx of gold and silver

If we think back to Econ 101 we will remember that inflation is caused by an increase in the size of the economy without an equel increase in productivity.

Promoting gov's is, in EU terms, an increase in productivity and correctly brings down inflation.

The problem is with inflation, not the methods used to fight inflation.
 

Secret Master

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So, which way do we want it?

Seems to me that the real question is which way do we really want the game to be.

On one hand, the use of govenors to reduce inflation is very abstract, and represents putting competent officials in charge of certain parts of the economy. This way, you are acting very much like the "grey eminence", and are just telling your faithful minions to fix the economy for you. You are not worrying yourself over the trifling details of production versus gold. This is why inflation magically drops by a point right when you promote a govenor, as opposed to a decline over time (which would be more realistic).

The other side of the coin could see a very complex system, where you, as the "grey eminence", try and adjust the economy yourself. This would be alot more micromanegment, but would have the benefit of more realism. For example, you could set up a system where the player could increase or decrease the rate of production from gold provinces, so as to prevent massive inflation. The player would, early in the game, try and restrain production of gold, and as the production of goods and trade increases, then making the provinces produce more gold up to their maximum capacity. This would be more complicated, be more time consuming (adding yet another set of sliders to play with!), but would give the player direct control over the effort to fight inflation, instead of just appointing those govenors.

I do not know which way I would want it myself. On one hand, the sudden promotion of 5 govenors in one month drops the inflation of the entire empire by 5 points, which is unrealistic. On the other hand, I may not be in the mood to micro-manage the production of gold and its relation to trade and goods production in the economy. (Though, the AI would probably be very good at that.)

Does someone else know which way we should go?
 

unmerged(4290)

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Well, 5 governors in North America bringing the inflation of Ottoman Empire -which is in Europe- by five? Realistic? certainly not but it might be better than micromanagement..

What I think is there must be a min and max level of inflation for all nations calculated by its gold production, warmongering and monarch. Here is an example:

I am Ottoman and my min. inflation is 5% while max is 19%. I am now 14%. I promote a governor in Tehuantepec; a province that gives my 1/100 annual income.. He would reduce the increase of inflation by 1/100. If inflation is zero, then he would decrease by 1/100. So a good governor in a grain province would not make the same effect on the economy as a good governor in a tobacco province. If I build enough governors (60% of your economy maybe?) then my inflation would slowly decrease to 5%, which is my min. because of all that gold pouring in.. It is a simple model, one that can be surely made better.
 

unmerged(3236)

mongols in pommern?
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Another problem with inflation is that it doesnt increase during wars, solution:

Reduce cost of training troops GREATLY increase the cost of having them. When you go to war you need to increase the tax to pay your troops and thus the inflation is increased. This would also be more historical im manny mathers. It would make rebels more costy as you need to have soldiers to kill them. It would make world conquest really hard because of the rebels and extreeme cost of troops.
 

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Jun 6, 2001
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Originally posted by Petrus


If we think back to Econ 101 we will remember that inflation is caused by an increase in the size of the economy without an equel increase in productivity.

Promoting gov's is, in EU terms, an increase in productivity and correctly brings down inflation.

The problem is with inflation, not the methods used to fight inflation.

Uh... I don't remember the part in Econ 101 where they described
appointing politicians as an effective means of increasing productivity.
 

unmerged(4273)

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Jun 6, 2001
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Originally posted by Dogface
Spain doesn't suffer the tiniest amount in EU1 because of its gold. It just uses it to keep financing infinite expansion and then builds a governor in every province. In 1792, Spain has zero "inflation".

... And this is precisely why I don't like the current governors system. For Spain in 1792 to have the same price levels as Spain in 1492 is completely unrealistic when it has all of that gold pumping into the economy...
 

unmerged(3408)

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Uh... I don't remember the part in Econ 101 where they described appointing politicians as an effective means of increasing productivity.

Sure you did, you just didn't know it. :D

Appointing governors increases productivity in a province (by decreasing corruption for example). Increasing productivity to match increases in the size of the economy is a perfectly sound method to fight inflation.

Also, the monarchs of this time--arguably up until Adam Smith in the late 18th century-had no real idea how economies in general, or inflation specifically, worked. Since we can't expect EU monarchs to fight inflation with modern IMF approved methods, promoting governors works just fine.

In future versions it would be nice, however, to have a realistic inflation model.