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Aluysio Barbarigo​

I'm here to cast my votes. Many senators have explained the reasoning behind their voting, a very good costume indeed. My family have always stood for a rather cautious foreign policy, and Venice have been attacked enough times in the last decades to not want to start any wars of it's own.
The only war I would approve of is an attack on Egypt, to secure a firmer grip on the spice trade in Alexandria. We ought to be able to incorporate this muslim land without causing any unrest among our catholic and orthodox subjects. However, I vote for peace since I wouldn't want my approval of war to be used for any other attack.
If peace would allow us to reconstruct the alliance with Spain, to make us leaders, that would be a great achivement.

Election 43.
1. Spain, Austria, Savoy, Bulgaria
2. Papal States, Schweiz, Bavaria, Hungary, Theodoros, Knights, Portugal
3. France, Burgundy, Genoa
4. Ottoman Empire, Egypt
5. Peace

Election 44.
1. 0% into land tech
2. 20% into naval tech
Inflation needs to be battled, but the sorry state of our fleet troubles me. Our galleys are not modern and the nations in the west are showing us the way: long distance travelling will be even more common in the future. The Mediterranean will one day be only one of the seas we should be present in.
One final word of the debasing of our coinage. When we have developed and trainded enough clerks to establish the new system of governors, we should be prepared for this great cost. Having enough money in our coffers to establish these officials in half of our provinces within the first year shouldn't be impossible.

Election 45.
1. Yes
2. No
3. No
The cost of war (in men, ships, stability costs, lowered relations with fellow catholics) of an attack make buying maps a far better course.
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Election 43:
1. Spain, Hungary, Bulgaria, Papal States
2. Austria, Portugal
3. OE
4. Genoa, Egypt

0 % Land
20 % Navy

Election 45:
1. Yes
2. No
3. No

I do think we should pay Lisbon a visit if we get in a war with them (if Spain attacks them or if they attack Spain. Or us). I just think we should't start wars in the near future.
I do think we should pay Lisbon a visit if we get in a war with them (if Spain attacks them or if they attack Spain. Or us). I just think we should't start wars in the near future.
I agree with you, dear Miozozny. Stealing maps have to be part of the concideration in all our future wars.
Fodorini, for some future report, could a small thumbnail-sized map show us what part of the world we have knowledge of now?
/Aluysio Barbarigo
Dear fellow senators and Doge,

Here are my votes, I regret at this moment I cannot respond in full as I am visiting relatives in Constantinople and I seem to be ill from some sort of unknown illness. This is a most distressing time, and I pray that I will be able to return to full duties in the senate.

Election 43

Dear Friends - Spain, Papal States, Austria, Bulgaria
Friends - Hungary, France
Adversaries - OE
Enemies - Egypt
Warmongerer - Yes, but only for Alexandria and a way into the Red Sea.

Election 44

1. 20
2. 25

Election 45

I would just like to add that this is A GREAT ELECTION!!! Wow--it is so much MORE fun to have all these excellent voices sharing thoughts and ideas! Even when I don't agree, I learn by listening.

Doge--I can't wait for us to see how this all pans out.

Oh, and though I am NOT changing any of my votes, I am MOST eager for us to attempt to gain access to the Red Sea through Alexandria. I have little experience with things in that area of the world, but as I stated previously, I am solidly in the voting camp of the much more experienced Senator Barbarigo (heck, they are family now anyway). You, sir, may count on my voting support for however you think we can get there quickest and any ideas you may present to the Doge in that regard. Not only will that be a new experience for me [ot--in the game as well, never went that way ever], but it will most likely be another way to engage the hated Ottomans!
Fellow Senators,

My apologies for my prolonged absence. I had some difficulty making my way to the Consiglia over the weekend.

Election 43
Dear Friends: Spain, Austria, Bulgaria, Pope, Bavaria, Savoy, Genoa, Knights
Friends: Hungary, Poland, Theodoros, England, Portugal
Adversaries: France, Burgundy, Egypt
Enemies: Ottomans
Peace. I reccomend peace until a war will not result in us exceding the 50% BB level

Election 44
1. 0% 2. 0% Go all out for Infra 5, then mint to promote all Governors

Election 45
1. Yes
2. No, not until BB is under control


Ernesto Gandolfi II
Dear senators,

I congratulate you on your civic sense of duty on coming to vote even on workers day. Elections 43, 44 and 45 are now closed. Here are the results.

Election 43. International relations

1. Dear Friends: Spain (8/8 votes), Austria (7/8 votes), Bulgaria (5/8 votes) and Savoy (4/8 votes)
2. Friends (with carry over from 1): Hungary (6/8 votes), Bavaria (5/8 votes), Papal States (4/8 votes) and The Knights (4/8 votes)
3. Adversaries (with carry over from 4): Ottoman Empire (8/8 votes), Genoa (5/8 votes), France (4/8 votes) and Burgundy (4/8 votes)
4. Enemies: Egypt (4/8 votes)

5. Peace was decided (5/8 votes). We will not be declaring war.

Election 44. Military investment 1529-1549

Land investment: 5% of monthly budget
Naval investment: 20% of monthly budget (rounded).

75% is dedicated to Infrastructure as previously agreed.

Election 45. Maps

It was decided to attempt to buy maps from Spain (5/8 votes).

A war over this issue is for the time being ruled out. But we might have to come back to this point on a later date. Spain knows of 183 territories that we ignore, while we know of 37 that they don't. In any case, money spent in this attempts will strenghen our alliance to them.

Regarding our knowledge of the world. We are aware of the discovery of the New World, 37 years ago, by Christopher Columbus, and we even know how to reach the Northern part, courtesy of some French captain, whose ship was captured in the war of 1514. We are also aware of the Indian costs, but the Indian continent with its riches is unknown to us, since we never captured Bursa, the capital of the Ottoman Empire.


My condolences to senator Loganni Cornaro on the passing of his grandfather. Although he had a long and happy life, he will be missed.

As your Doge, I have to bring another issue to the senate, but I am unsure about calling for a formal election. Several of the senators have already expressed their concern regarding one of the main centers of trade, where our prosperity rests: Alexandria. The growing hostility between the Bey of Egypt and the Sultan of the Ottomans could very well lead to war. Our position is difficult. As commercial allies of the Mameluks, it would damage greatly our international reputation if we were to attack them out of pure greed. On the other hand, we could find in the future a justification to attack the Ottomans or be in a defensive war against them. I would like senators to voice their opinion about what to do if the Ottomans try to take over the Mameluks.

- Just ignore the issue until we are more directly involved (wait for a future war with the Ottomans).
- Claim that we are the protectors of the Mameluks and take their capital and several of their provinces (big increase in BBs) preventing their fall.
- Take our fare share of the Mameluks before the Ottomans dispose of them (same big increase in BBs).

Damage to our reputation: 4 BB for declaring war without justification (2BB if relationship above +99), 2 BB per province gained. The damage to our stability cannot be ignore either.

One of the reasons I am unsure, is because although it does not escape me the advantages of a third Center of Trade, I fail to see the advantages of a base in the Red Sea where we will be unable to raise armies or build ships. Of course we could ferry troops towards the Indian Ocean, but the same can be accomplished by obtaining military access from the owner of those provinces. But it is the job of the Senate to decide over those matters and that is why I would like to stimulate this discussion.

Andrea Gritti, Doge.
This is the new list of random leaders to be introduced into the game in no particular order. It includes everybody who has posted in the thread in the last two months, March, 1 to April, 30. Both forum and character name are included. Let me know by PM if you want any changes.

Character name        Forum name

Ernesto Gandolfi      Arturo Gandolfi
Giovanni Lando        HoChiMinh
Gian. Giustinian      Samuel Clemens
Loganni Cornaro       Carlec
Aluys. Barbarigo      Norrefeldt
Knud Dante            King of Minors
      -               Miozozny
Cristoforo Moro       Hastu Neon
Piero Badoer          Usually Insane
Dandolo                    -          (Permanent honorific)
Marco Mocenigo        Carmagnola
Fran. Morosini        Rythin
Massim. Pesaro        The Suebian

The other day I was playing a game as Brabant-Netherlands, and during a war against Bremen I saw a Venetian army iddling around. I did not pay it any attention, until I selected my army, and in the small picture at the bottom of the army info screen, I saw that it was... King of Minors, :rofl: I had forgotten that the game always uses them.
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Norrefeldt said:
A port in the Red Sea would make us able to raise troops and build ships there. Why shouldn't it?

Poor provinces of wrong religion and culture usually don't allow recruitment even at +3 stability, which we almost never have, but I might be wrong on this one.
The only conquest in Egypt worth the cost to administer it is Alexandria, a rich trade center, and something the Ottomans are eager to control. We shouldn't let them!

It is my firm belief, as tought from my grandfather Pascal Barbarigo, that Venice's future is in the East, and we should try to get better control of the very distant spice markets that way. Some nations are looking for a way around the muslim world to get there, that is not the way of Venice, who have fought very successfully against heathens so far. Portugal and Spain are taking the long way, Venice should not!!
/Aluysio Barbarigo

[Taking Nile is probably not profitable in itself.]
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Doge, Honourable Senators,

Let me just remind some of us, that rather than caring about our private businesses and greed, we should look after the things that are really important.

Living in such a marvelous and dynamic republic is a priviledge not everyone can have from a cradle. Not everyone can live in a democratic country, where everyone is equal both to the law and to the one's consciousness. I say, we should bring this priviledge to as many people as possible - show it to the vile Muslim dissenters, occitian Catholics and exotic Pagans.

As for an issue of the Mameluks. The Mameluks have always been a nation of slaves and servants to the rotten office of a Caliph and Bey. We should intervene and bring there peace as soon as it is possible. We should guarantee them peaceful and appropriate life under the banner of our Republic.

Republic shall never fall,
Gen. Francesco Morosini

[OOC: 'proclaiming defenders and capturing provinces before vile ottomans do it']
Trying to think big picture here. . .

In the end, we will STILL need to know if there is a way around Africa [I doubt it, but every day we learn something new. . .I have even heard rumors that some were working on a way to create a form of printing that would not involve pen and ink, an amazing concept]. If there IS a way around Africa, then we would STILL need to know about it eventually if we plan on ever sending ships to that area of the world. I mean, I know we could build ships in whatever port we happened to control in the Red Sea, but never as fast as we can build them here at home.

The Ottomans. . .well you all know my feelings here and those of my family! I would say just off the cuff, if the Bey is attacking the Sultan, then we should JOIN IN and clear out the Ottomans in Europe! Of course, that is not the question and I stand by my feeling that we need peace, peace and more peace for a season. But we should not attack Egypt now. In my mind, when we last voted, I was thinking "we'll have peace [hopefully] for 25-50 years AND THEN, once the BB was down, we'll hopefully try to move into Egypt for the COT regardless of who is there (and actually, I HOPE its the OE, since that would give me an excuse to push us to clear out Europe also)." :p So, "ignore the situation for now."

We don't have to take land in the Red Sea (and the COT is clearly in the Med) in order to trade in whatever centers of trade we might find. But this gets back to trading maps. One thought I've been pondering since our discussions on this started years ago (and in reading my grandfather's notes), trading maps with the Spaniards won't really help us, will it? I mean, they certainly haven't found any route around Africa. Would it not make more sense to spend the money and diplomats to increase our relationships with some other Eastern nations, trade maps with them and thus learn of areas in India? From the map of the Doge, I see at least 5 or 6 smaller nations that we could work to increase relations quickly and then trade maps with them. That would surely open up other small nations. Just a thought.

[out of character]--in all my games except where I am NOT trying to colonize, the trade east method is how I have beaten all other nations to the Far East CoTs, as well as to Australia and India. It is not that expensive, takes, about 3-5 diplomats to get relations up (especially when you JUST find a new nation and relations are a "0") and then 1-3 diplomats to get the map trade. Those nations NEVER pose a threat to your own plans as most get eaten up and rarely ever attempt to come west. Within 2-4 nations, I know enough to get going and my only real concern at that point is getting around Africa. Well, then I can trade with Portugal since I usually know more than they or enough that they don't know, that they trade with me and voila, I have my way around and can start sending troops/ships to my new colonies. Even if I NEVER get an explorer (like when I played Sweden; no explorer that I remember till the late 1600s), I can take over the Far East long before England, Netherlands or Portugal get there. Heck, as England, I did it this way and easily beat everyone including Portugal to India. As Venice I did it this way too; had to since I wanted to colonize but had self-imposed a limit to NOT colonize the New World (tried to stay somewhat historical, assumed Venice would want to maintain control of Spice Trade, but never thought of taking Alexandria---I couldn't get into India [I did take Ceylon as I remember it], but I dominated the Dutch East Indies and Australia area. Just my thoughts on it. Back to the game and story! :)
Fellow Senators and Honored Doge,

I think Alexandria is certainly a prize worth having, but I think 6 BB is far too high a price. Could we manufacture a CB with the Mamelukes, perhaps by issuing a warning and hoping they go to war?

Ernesto Gandolfi

Edit: I just saw Senator Carlec's post, and must say I am in almost complete agreement with his proposals.
Dear Senators,

Although you know me as a diplomat at the Porte and a soldier, our now more than ten years of uninterrupted peace have allowed me to realize that our country has several economic and political problems unresolved, that severely handicap our development. Look for a full analysis after the usual reports.

First I have to report the complete failure of our attempts to entice King Charles of Spain to share his explorations with us. We sent him gifts for a total value of 292[,000] ducats, improving considerably our relations to a maximum of +153, but Charles is embarked in an attempt to chart the whole world, and in this 5 years discovered over 10 new territories, knowing now 198 places we ignore, and he is unwilling to give away such investment in the name of friendship. Fortunately the money was not wasted, and we were able to become the leaders of our alliance, including Bulgaria in it.


Ahh the hard choices that come with power. Unlike most medieval countries, Venice does not rest in feudalism. Our noble families must work hard to earn their fortunes. As such we don't look lightly upon the attempts by a few of accumulating privileges. But the decision is difficult, as our motives are not easy to explain to a populace that demands "panem et circenses" and follows whoever promises it to them.


So what does Bayreuth have with us? For the third time they provoke us. Now they harass our merchants, and here they step over the line. Perhaps we can tolerate a slight modification of borders (again, what borders?), but our merchants are our blood, and I quickly demand an explanation and recall our ambassador for consultation. You just have to give the order, and Fodoroni will march our troops across Austria and annex those pesky Protestant Germans.


Meanwhile Venice continues to attract new citizens and becomes richer. But the conditions in the city are far from ideal. In the middle of a salty lagoon, with drinking water so scarce and expensive that our citizens have to resort to drink from dubious sources and lack any fundamental hygiene, and with the city swept by cold humid winds from the sea, Venice is one of the most insalubre cities in the world. It is periodically hit by pestilences that prevent the population from growing despite strong immigration. It only requires a spark to set ablaze, and one day a merchant ship arrives from Negroponte in Euboea (Ionia), were a disease just broke out...


I know we are all in mourning for our family members and friends that died in the pestilence. But cheer up. It wasn't that bad this time, and only a fifth of the population died. You are also lucky that your Doge has survived. We must look into the future. See, Albania has converted to the true faith. Regretfully the Greeks are more obstinate, and those of Macedonia no only refuse to convert but raise in rebellion. Luckily Norrefeldt is there with 24,000 knights and squashes the rebellion before they have time to loot the province.


Oh my God! Some of the most trusted advisors of your Doge were actually paid by the Genoese. Those that did not escape have been swiftly dealt with by the Council of Ten, but the embarrassment of the Doge has had him prostrated for four months. Genoa cannot fall lower in our esteem. If it weren't for the 30,000 troops in Corsica, I would declare war to them, and call Charles Habsburg to break his suzerainty and attack them to our advantage, but as things are, we would gain little besides a decrease of our reputation and a few ducats.

So what is happening in the international arena? Almost nothing. Many countries are converting to the new religion, and alliances break and remake. Everybody has been at peace except for a gang attack by Brandenburg and the Austrian alliance on Meissen, that the Livonian Order took advantage to gain a territory. Also the Knights Hospitalliers of St. John are carrying a solo crusade against most of the muslim world (Egypt, Kara Koyunlu, Oman and Yemen), with mixed results. But Europe is strangely at peace. Perhaps the calm that precedes the tempest.

And finally, on technology, we are focusing on naval development, advancing two levels (8). Our Master Metallurgic at the Arsenal, Vannoccio Biringuccio, has almost finished his research on artillery, gunpowder and metallurgy that he will publish posthumously in 1540 as "De la Pirotechnia". It contains the first explanation of what propels a rocket: "One part of fire takes up as much space as ten parts of air, and one part of air takes up the space of ten parts of water, and one part of water as much as ten parts of earth. Now sulfur is earth, consisting of the four elementary principles, and when the sulfur conducts the fire into the driest part of the powder, fire, and air increase ... the other elements also gird themselves for battle with each other and the rage of battle is changed by their heat and moisture into a strong wind." It is a correct enough explanation until the third law of motion by Isaac Newton explained why the "strong downward wind" propelled the rocket upward, 150 years later. Biringuccio's book will continue to be reprinted 450 years later. But for the moment he has promised me to incorporate bronze cannons into our ships (level 9) in a few months.


your Doge,

Andrea Gritti, LXXVII Dux Venetiarum. Dec. 1533.
1529-1533 Account:

Year 1529
Investment set to 75% Infra, 20% Naval, 5% Land
-Mercantilism -1 (now 7) Stability dropped by -1 to +1
Nobles demandold rights happened to us. We rejected, Stab. -2 (vs. Centralization -1)
Investment shifted to stability

Important international events nearby

Our diplomacy

Year 1530
Inquisition was succesful in Albania
Stability rose to +0
Merchants harassed happened to us. We escalated, 60 month CB to Bayreuth, relation -50 (vs. relation +25, trade -300)

Important international events nearby
Hungary became a vassal of Poland

Our diplomacy
-Sent 143D personal gift to Spain, relations improved by +41 to +126
-Our proposal of discovery exchange (189 of theirs for our 37) was refused by Spain
-Our proposal of discovery exchange (191 of theirs for our 37) was refused by Spain

Year 1531
Stab rose to +1, Investment shifted to research
Our naval technology reached 7
Capital atraction happened to us, Tax value in Veneto +1, pop +500

Important international events nearby

Our diplomacy
-Our proposal of discovery exchange (193 of theirs for our 37) was refused by Spain
-Our proposal of discovery exchange (194 of theirs for our 37) was refused by Spain
-We created an alliance with Spain (+137) and Bulgaria (+154)

Year 1532
Plague happened to us, Pop in Romagna & Ionia -1000, in Veneto -1500

Important international events nearby

Our diplomacy
-Sent 149D personal gift to Spain, relations improved by +17 to +153
-Our proposal of discovery exchange (195 of theirs for our 37) was refused by Spain
-Our proposal of discovery exchange (198 of theirs for our 37) was refused by Spain

Year 1533
Inquisition failed in Macedonia
Our naval technology reached 8
Scandal at Court happened to us, DIP skill -4 for 4 months, relation to Genoa -100

Important international events nearby

Our diplomacy
[size=+1]1533 Report (December)[/size]


Stability +0
Stability cost = 1142D/level (should be 981, but scandal at court has taken us over BB = 1/2 BBmax by lowering BBmax)
Treasury = 161D
Inflation 10.5%

Number of provinces:
1419     6
1443    11
1468    13
1493    20
1518    25
1528    26
1534    26

Yearly income from provinces:
           Tax       Prod     Manp
1419      29.86      23.48     6.2
1443      80.78      55.47    12.0
1468     111.33      90.87    17.0
1493     180.55     175.82    27.5
1518     199.73     206.22    34.5
1528     239.10     242.21    40.8
1534     219.30     240.89    41.8

Monthly income:
           Tax     Prod     Trade    Gold    Total   mil. maint. (50%)
1419       9.3      2.0       5.9     0.0     17.2       -1.7
1443      17.7      4.6       7.9     0.0     30.3       -3.4
1468      22.8     11.8       4.4     0.0     39.1       -4.1
1493      33.7     16.7      16.0     0.0     66.9       -5.7
1518      38.7     21.1      17.9     0.0     79.2       -8.2
1528      49.8     23.2      24.4     0.0     97.8       -8.0
1534      48.4     23.1      26.2     0.0     98.1       -8.0

46 merchants in CoTs (+0). 4.2 merchants/year
cost of placement is 4-7 in Italy, 7-8 in Europe, 14-25 Rest of the world.
Trade efficiency is 69% (first nation). Production efficiency is 53% (second nation, first at 54%)

Monarch Andrea Gritti
Military Average (5)
Administrative Good (7)
Diplomacy Average (6) but (2) until next month

Domestic policies:
Year 1500 +     1419 03 08 13 18 24 28 34
Aristocracy        4  3  -  -  -  -  -  -
Centralization     3  8  -  9  8  -  -  -
Innovative         4  5  -  -  -  -  -  -
Mercantilism       5  8  -  -  -  -  -  7
Offensive          2  4  -  -  -  -  -  -
Land               2  1  -  -  -  0  -  -
Quality            6  8  -  -  -  -  -  -
Serfdom            4  1  -  -  -  0  -  -

Technology + % of next level (estimated date, current investment)
Land 11 + 37% (1547, 5%) [No bonus]
Naval 8 + 24% (1534, 20%) [Bonus = 4D]
Trade 5 + 30% (1590, 0%) [No bonus]
Infrastructure 4 + 27% (1546, 75%) [No bonus]

Refinery in Crete (finished in 1456)
Weapons manufactory in Veneto (by event, 1473)
Refinery in Morea (finished in 1478)
Refinery in Napoli (finished in 1495)

Provinces of wrong religion: Orthodox (Kosovo, Macedonia, Hellas & Kerch).


Lomellini, Rear Admiral (Naval 3, 2, 3)
Grimani, Admiral (Naval 4, 4, 4)

Army 31k infantry, 41k cavalry, 0 artillery
maintenance cost at 50% is 5.9 D/month
Army support limit = 94 000 (21 000 from trade)
Cost of army units:
Infantry 18D
Cavalry 35D
Artillery 33D

Navy 8 warships, 87 galleys, 21 transports
maintenance cost at 50% 2.0 D/month
Navy support limit = 216
Cost of naval units:
warships 41D
Galleys 9D
Transports 13D

Manpower pool = 51 (25,000/year)


1) Standing
Allies: Spain and Bulgaria
Bad Boy 19.6/36 rather bad (should be over 40 when scandal at court is finished next month)
Permanent CB: Genoa
Temporary CB: Bayreuth Dec. 1535

Countries with permanent CB on Venice:
Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Papal States, Spain, Savoy, Bulgaria


Dark Green represents countries with > +150 relationship to us. Light Green represents countries with +75 to +150 relationship to us. White countries have -75 to +75 relationship to us. Bright red countries have between -75 and -150 relationship to us, and dark red countries have < -150 relationship to us.

2) Neighbours and near-neighbours by areas (allies). Underlined countries have land/strait border to Venice:

Papal States
Venice (Spain RM MA, Bulgaria)
Savoy RM MA (Switzerland, Scotland, Sweden, Bremen & Berg)
Austria MA (Hungary Poland, Livonian Order, Bohemia, Brandenburg)
Balkan/Carpatian/Asia minor:
OE (Mughal Empire, Wallachia)
The Knights
Egypt (Kara Koyunlu, Oman, Yemen)
Black sea:
Theodoros RM MA
Uzbek (Golden Horde, Sibir, Chagatai Khanate)
France (Burgundy)

3) Vassalages:
Wallachia is a vassal of OE
Papal States and Bulgaria are vassals of Venice
France is a vassal of Burgundy
Austria and Genoa are vassals of Spain
Bohemia is a vassal of Austria
Nubia is a vassal of Egypt
Hungary is a vassal of Poland

4) Changes in our area:
Hungary was vassalized by Poland