The Decline and Fall of Roman Civilization

[volksmarschall]

If I only could see a Byzantinized Washington DC...

Is that a joke?

Finally had the time to read your upgrade with the proper amount of concentration! If you and Persia managed to annex the unspeakable Shepherd tribe in one (well, two) war(s) then they must have been quite weakened already. It does remind me of their state at the end of my own campaign though - completely gobbeled up by Otto, Timur, Russia and even Hedjaz!

Yeah, they were actually doing quite well for a bit. But then wars with Persia and the Mamlukes started to eat away at them, and when I noticed a war between they and Persia, I decided to DoW them to gain some of their northern territories. From about 1470-1490, they had a nice sliver of land from the Caucasus Mountains down into Iraq. But, in the graveyard of empires, not everyone can survive...

 

[LanMisa]

"Not everyone can survive..."? Tell me one Empire that is still around with the power it wielded at its peak. Not even the US of A are still as mighty as they were before. Rise and decline is the only constant factor I've noticed in history, while the speed and level of decline differs from being exterminated in years or decades (some Nomad Empires) to just being controlled from the outside for a few generations and staying mostly intact/only changing leadership (China)

 

[volksmarschall]

"Not everyone can survive..."? Tell me one Empire that is still around with the power it wielded at its peak. Not even the US of A are still as mighty as they were before. Rise and decline is the only constant factor I've noticed in history, while the speed and level of decline differs from being exterminated in years or decades (some Nomad Empires) to just being controlled from the outside for a few generations and staying mostly intact/only changing leadership (China)

I'm a bit perplexed? That comment was meant to be ironic and foreshadowing--so many empires have vied for control of Iraq--so many have failed to complete their conquests in the region. Rome and Persia (per the game and AAR) are clearly on a path to war in the region. I wasn't being historical or political with the comment(?)

But yes, it's just observable that empires, hegemons, and world powers all have their rise, peak, and decline. As for the United States, the decline of American hegemony--whatever and how severe this decline is--is to the benefit of the rest of the world. But alas, the conflict between internationalism and nationalism will ensure that such declines, whether it be from the US, the EU, or elsewhere--will not go quietly or without reaction.

 

[LanMisa]

Ah, well - I didn't mean it in a bad way or anything. I just totally missed the "empires die in Iraq" part. So I interpreted it in a wider way than you intended. And in the end I made a (strangely fitting?) bad call. Just don't think too much about it.

I only wanted to start a historical discussion, as usual.

 

[Deus Eversor]

the only empires to not fall because of holding Iraq was Alexanders creation and Caliphate. Iraq is resource rich, is in the crossroads to everywhere. It's the friggid heart of Eurafrasian landmass, its an open space, plains, it is big as well so long borders, any offensive outwards meets hostile enviroment of mountains or endless deserts. Everyone wants in, it is easy to get in, but very hard to get out. To control Iraq one must controll at least 3 sides of its borders, south/north/east/west... otherwise hold over Iraq is only temporary and very costly

 

[Pilot00]

Well, Byzantines more concentrated on their petty rivarlies, beaurocracy and traditions was a disgrace, Rome, at least back in the republic days, was like rivarlies where targeted outwards, a senator or general wanted to be more famous, more power, he gone invading a forreign country. Byzantium? nah, lets go civil-total wars. All countries fall when its guns get pointed inwards.

Yeah because after Caesar died and before Constantine relocated the capital, all was roses and gold in Rome...If anything it was this kind of tradition that lead the ERE to what it eventually became.

If anything as much as historians up to recently ignored and demeaned the EREs contributions to the European world, they also demeaned and outright ignored the pre-byzantine Romes decline and grand corruption which eventually lead to it been sacked and lost (irony much?)

Corruption and backstabbing was a sport of both parts of the empire sadly. One that both the Greeks and Italians have inherited to this day (again irony much?)

 

[Deus Eversor]

Irony much.

 

[volksmarschall]

If Albert Camus ever wrote a history of the Byzantines, I'm pretty sure he would just say that the whole history of the empire was absurd!


Just an author note, I'm not exactly sure when I'll be able to update again. I'm not anticipated month(s) long absences, but I doubt anything in the next week (more than likely).

 

[LanMisa]

Just take your time. Quality > Quantity, at least here. In the game, however...

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Is that a joke?

You should know me too well by now...

 

[GreatUberGeek]

Should I take Greek next year as a Sophomore next year? I will have to take a 6-week chemistry course in the summer. I thought you might have some valuable input on that.
Glad to see Persia mentioned. I don't get to read or hear a lot about them, so I take whatever morsels, or in your case, large semi-factious chunks I can get.

 

[Deus Eversor]

If I only could see a Byzantinized Washington DC...

what more do you want, it already has many architectural suggestions that washington is a descendant from Rome... more domes so popular in the ERE?

 

[volksmarschall]

Should I take Greek next year as a Sophomore next year? I will have to take a 6-week chemistry course in the summer. I thought you might have some valuable input on that.
Glad to see Persia mentioned. I don't get to read or hear a lot about them, so I take whatever morsels, or in your case, large semi-factious chunks I can get.

What value will get out of studying Greek (unless you're a loser and plan to get a degree in the Classics )? It'll take 4-5 years to even come close to standard proficiency (on average). Take a modern European language instead, they're more relevant, and even if you were to have the ludicrous idea of graduate school and live in poverty for 6-10 years to obtain your degree you'll need 1-2 modern languages on top of ancient languages if you do anything with the Classics, Ancient, Late Antiquity, or Medieval Era.

Just look at Yale, for a degree in Ancient History: French, German, Greek & Latin. (And for more specific Byzantine studies: French, German, Russian, Greek & Latin) No wonder why everyone just studies Europe and America... :glare:

 

[GulMacet]

Learn German! We have all the umlaute - and we know how to capitalize Nouns!

 

[Deus Eversor]

What value will get out of studying Greek (unless you're a loser and plan to get a degree in the Classics )? It'll take 4-5 years to even come close to standard proficiency (on average). Take a modern European language instead, they're more relevant, and even if you were to have the ludicrous idea of graduate school and live in poverty for 6-10 years to obtain your degree you'll need 1-2 modern languages on top of ancient languages if you do anything with the Classics, Ancient, Late Antiquity, or Medieval Era.

Just look at Yale, for a degree in Ancient History: French, German, Greek & Latin. (And for more specific Byzantine studies: French, German, Russian, Greek & Latin) No wonder why everyone just studies Europe and America... :glare:

i think its prestigious for one person, to know it, too bad i do not have the enough motivation to learn it properly, but im happy i know how to read it. using some futuristic font for it, ancient greek seems for me as the perfect science fiction language, but thats only a stylish thought there. In sociology it gives prestige just like knowing gothic germanic, latin, someone uses a word and you can trully understand what he means, you can choose words to create a new, important, name for a phenomenon in sociology. there are μικρο theories, μακρο theories, but how many are there μεσο ones? there is still room for greek in our timeline

 

[volksmarschall]

Just so the readers are aware, I'm in a month of final revisions and editing concerning my actual work(s) for publication(s). Therefore, I will likely not have anything updated here until sometime in March. That/This explains my absence and neglect to update.

Thanks for your patience and understanding!

labor omnia vincit

 

[Jape]

Best of luck with your work volk. Enjoyed the last update. The choice of the Roman-Persian 'summit' is a nice touch. Though the lovely irony of the philosopher kings aside, I have an image of a Roman and Persian grunt meeting up and realising where they are:

"We're going to fight, aren't we?"

"Oh yeah, totally."

 

[Nathan Madien]

To begin, by going backward. I hope the reader will forgive me for having jumped backward in the chronology of the reign of John. However, I feel that, as you have traveled on this journey with me, you have come to see that a thematic organization seems to keep the flow of the text better than a standard narrative chronology.

Hey, I don't mind. I tend to jump back-and-forth chronologically myself.

Only at the commencement of the eschaton, the absolute end of history, and the beginning of apocalypse, would the twelfth imam returned to guide the righteous to defeat the apostates and impure of faith.

But isn't history about things that happened? If the twelfth imam returned and did his guiding, wouldn't that technically become history? How can there be an absolute end of history? :huh:

Though the lovely irony of the philosopher kings aside, I have an image of a Roman and Persian grunt meeting up and realising where they are:

"We're going to fight, aren't we?"

"Oh yeah, totally."

I love the Valley Girl tone in the response, Jape. I can just imagine either grunt talking like that. :rofl:

 

[volksmarschall]

Best of luck with your work volk. Enjoyed the last update. The choice of the Roman-Persian 'summit' is a nice touch. Though the lovely irony of the philosopher kings aside, I have an image of a Roman and Persian grunt meeting up and realising where they are:

"We're going to fight, aren't we?"

"Oh yeah, totally."

Why thanks Jape! Well, I'm told that the Romans and Persians hate each other, and when I get to it, it'll be moderately brutal

Hey, I don't mind. I tend to jump back-and-forth chronologically myself.

But isn't history about things that happened? If the twelfth imam returned and did his guiding, wouldn't that technically become history? How can there be an absolute end of history? :huh:

I love the Valley Girl tone in the response, Jape. I can just imagine either grunt talking like that. :rofl:

History, well, that depends on how we're defining history. For us Hegelians, history isn't just about events
*well, now you're going to make go off on a philosophical diatribe* xD

 

[volksmarschall]

I just want everyone to know that I'm moving the prospective re-engagement with this AAR back to probably middle March. My ongoing editing and revision commitments are dictating postponing engagement here.

Thanks for your understanding.