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Co_Karoliina

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This is an interesting thread! The death waves do seem to exist. We did work on them during development extensively to make the effect lighter, because having half of your city die off at once is simply not fun, but clearly it still needs some balancing. There's a small randomness to the time of death currently. But having problems with traffic can make some parts of the city die if services cannot get to them, and it has a smaller randomness event than natural deaths, making it look and feel like a death wave.
 
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rkelly17

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cims should have a random death age when they appear in the city that's all...

Do we know whether or not there is a spread of ages when cims move into the city from outside? I've not yet been anal enough to check, but this would seem to be a major factor in when they die. If they all move in at the same age, they'll all die around the same time. I play Banished and the population cycles there can be controlled by slow and steady housing growth--until you've filled the whole map, then hang on for the cyclical ups and downs.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't yet had the death-spike cycle kick in. I zone all wrong, doing several (or more!) blocks at a time, but my residential seems to fill in slowly no matter how fast I zone. I'm still fighting the traffic system, so if my cims are dying it's because they are caught in traffic jams!
 

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This is an interesting thread! The death waves do seem to exist. We did work on them during development extensively to make the effect lighter, because having half of your city die off at once is simply not fun, but clearly it still needs some balancing. There's a small randomness to the time of death currently. But having problems with traffic can make some parts of the city die if services cannot get to them, and it has a smaller randomness event than natural deaths, making it look and feel like a death wave.

@Co_Karoliina Can you confirm whether or not people "move" from house to house during their lifetimes? If people are switching neighbourhoods at a rate that occurs during a CIM lifespan, we shouldnt be seeing deathwaves, because the nieghborhoods would end up with a mix of ages and then not everyone in that neighbourhood would die simultaneously. If you are "locked" into your house for life, then this is a good indicator of why deathwaves are occuring.
 

JackyZen

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There was death waves in my cities, but now i put crematorium everywhere (10x the ratio: 400 dead means at least 4000 capacity), it seem to have bring the problem down...just keep your roads really well deserved in ''green'' everywhere you have build-ed something...
 

Tropod

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This is an interesting thread! The death waves do seem to exist. We did work on them during development extensively to make the effect lighter, because having half of your city die off at once is simply not fun, but clearly it still needs some balancing. There's a small randomness to the time of death currently. But having problems with traffic can make some parts of the city die if services cannot get to them, and it has a smaller randomness event than natural deaths, making it look and feel like a death wave.

I don't have a city to give you, but on more than one occasion I have seen hurse travel cross coutry to collect dead rather than someone closer to home & also when there's a closer hurse nearby (vanilla version). Side question: if dead aren't picked up within a reasonable time, can the dead infect others? ie black plague scenario.

I actually like this aspect of the game, it just does need some fine tuning though. Being requried to build a crematorium/grave on every block is not fun, and so now I use custom crematorium that covers much larger area ;).
 

Phil V

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having had similar problems in earlier cities, deleted now, I had a couple of death waves, crematorium was next to one building but it still showed as a dead person was waiting to be collected, I watched a hearse go to a building, collect a body and still it said a body was waiting for collection, which I'm assuming was that more than one person died and the hearse only took one.

To me that indicates that several people in the same building died, the building wasn't residential, it was commercial, and for more than one person to die at work seems very strange.
 

Co_Karoliina

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Having a dead person does not make other close to it more likely to die, but people can and will move away if the situation persists. This ties in with citizens moving inside the city, whenever there's new residential area available, citizens already living in the city reserve houses first. So if there are houses that are becoming abandoned, the residents will move to any free housing, or if there are young adults still living with their parents, they will move to their own apartment.
 
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youngzack

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For some reason i had this issue once or twice when i had traffic jams. I have finally understood how the traffic system works so now i see death by the minimal with 80% healthcare.

Co_Karoliina: if this has been questioned and answered please do give me the link. My question is:
1: When new cims move into city, is the age variable? And what age is most likely to move in?
2: Can cims die by natural causes, without getting sick or by old age?
 

MarkJohnson

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I don't have a city to give you, but on more than one occasion I have seen hurse travel cross coutry to collect dead rather than someone closer to home & also when there's a closer hurse nearby (vanilla version). Side question: if dead aren't picked up within a reasonable time, can the dead infect others? ie black plague scenario.

I actually like this aspect of the game, it just does need some fine tuning though. Being requried to build a crematorium/grave on every block is not fun, and so now I use custom crematorium that covers much larger area ;).

These statements are at odds with each other. If they are already traveling too far to pick up bnodies, why would you add a mod that makes them travel even further?

It sounds more like the mod is causing your issue?

Having a dead person does not make other close to it more likely to die, but people can and will move away if the situation persists. This ties in with citizens moving inside the city, whenever there's new residential area available, citizens already living in the city reserve houses first. So if there are houses that are becoming abandoned, the residents will move to any free housing, or if there are young adults still living with their parents, they will move to their own apartment.

I don't seem to be experiencing this residents moving next door or nearby. My experience is when the dead don't get picked up, the whole building dies. I have several thousand buildings abandoned but tens of thousands of population disappearing.

It seems they all are dying off and none, or not many, are moving next door or nearby as there are abandoned buildings in all directions nearby. At the least, only a few are moving out, and maybe in an already occupied building.
 

Cropper

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Citizens do move, but not often. The death waves are not likely to be because of age, but because of lack of services that deteriorates the health of a neighborhood at roughly the same pace, which means the chance to die also rises at the same pace.

With all due respect, that cant be the case @Co_Karoliina .

I build an entire neighbourhood and drop in the hospital and crematorium right away, along with all the education buildings, police, fire etc. Every single service building is placed right inside the neighbourhood itself, it couldnt be closer to the CIMs houses. There is no lack of healthcare or other services, and little to no traffic, trust me, and I still get the death waves.

There must be another cause, but its not becuase people arent putting in health care buildings or services as you are stating.

It seems pretty simple. The entire neighbourhood is moving in because I painted a big area. Then a while later, the entire neighbourhood starts to die off in a massive deathwave. I can recreate this in every game I play, indeed in every nieghborhood I build, as can MANY MANY other people.
 

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Citizens do move, but not often. The death waves are not likely to be because of age, but because of lack of services that deteriorates the health of a neighborhood at roughly the same pace, which means the chance to die also rises at the same pace.

I understand what you mean by this, but if this is indeed the case then it needs to be more apparent to players as to the cause of why this sort of thing is happening.


These statements are at odds with each other. If they are already traveling too far to pick up bnodies, why would you add a mod that makes them travel even further?

It sounds more like the mod is causing your issue?

You're reading/misreading to much into what I said and I'm not going to elaborate sorry. Devs ought to understand my comments & it was for them ;).
 

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Zoning too much at a time is probably the primary cause of the problematic death waves, and to some extent it's a reasonable (realistic) enough result from a simulator, given the initial factors: If in the real world you had a very large number of people, roughly the same age, moving into a new area at the same time, statistically many of them would die around the same time, causing a number of problems. That makes for somewhat fascinating emergent behavior in a simulator. The compressed timeframe in which the game runs makes the effect all the more pronounced. Once the death spike goes beyond what your current deathcare can handle, it starts to resonate with abandonment and new influx, adding to the influx after the deaths themselves, thus both increasing and sharpening the influx spikes. The death waves then begin to run in a cycle, becoming increasingly problematic unless you do something to mitigate the problem. For instance, you can manually force people out of the city to spread the influx e.g. by cranking up the taxes until a desirable number of people have gone. Timing is essential, but this can be used to combat the massive spikes.

Fascinating as it may be, there is gameplay to be considered here; some things should be done to reduce the likelihood of these events spiraling out of control, particularly when it isn't clear to the player what caused it: Did they or did they not realize they might be zoning too much at a time? With a larger spread in age among people moving in, and perhaps a larger spread in the age at which death occurs, I believe you would increase the chances of the deathcare services being able to handle the deaths when they happen (as long as you do have reasonable coverage). The inner workings of deathcare could perhaps use some improvements too. But the game only has so much tolerance for heavy zoning (population influx spikes), and that is a fundamental and real problem that cannot be avoided in a simulator such as this, unless people moving in have their ages spread across the entire relevant spectrum. The player may need to develop some understanding of this, simply as one of the realities of a city simulator – along with traffic jams.

That said, I'm under the impression that the developers are acutely aware of the problem of what makes good gameplay, and I have faith this will be polished out in time.
 
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Fspiders

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I've noticed that I can save the game with hardly any bodies to be picked up. Re-load it and within a minute I've hundreds dropping.

Not massively bothered as I think this game is lacking disasters as coastal maps should have a random chance of tsunami's where buildings and cims disappear. Also if you go nuclear there should be a slight random chance of Chernobyl, killing off a large section of your map. And maybe terrorism esp' if you have an airport! Give these lazy cops something to do! :)
 
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charlesnew

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Just something to point out, shouldn't death care and health care have separate budgets? It's kinda annoying how they are in one budget. In fact, the different types of schools should be separate budgets too, or maybe even being able to change the budget for every service building and transport line individually...
 
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ma2412

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I don't have a city to give you, but on more than one occasion I have seen hurse travel cross coutry to collect dead rather than someone closer to home & also when there's a closer hurse nearby (vanilla version).
that is exactly what i figured out in my 80k city with 8 tiles.

Why do all service buildings have a radius when they go to pick up a dead person on the other side of the city - even if nearby there are also dead people?
i guess they will be picked up in order the death happens. so the first free death-pick-up car (even if it is on the other city side) will got to that dead person. right?

my suggestion:
- more randomly ages should avoid death waves by age (every wave then will be weaker as the wave before)
- make crema-cars (or even all other service vehicles!) choose their "pick-up" by distance within their radius - if there is no one to pick up within the radius, the car should go outside the radius. the advantage is, that you can better cure local service-denies by plopping a service buildig nearby and you don't have to be afraid that the car will drive through the wohle city instead of going to an issue nearby.

That would really help and IMO should be "easy" (you know what i mean) to fix.
 

Co Starring

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that is exactly what i figured out in my 80k city with 8 tiles.

Why do all service buildings have a radius when they go to pick up a dead person on the other side of the city - even if nearby there are also dead people?
i guess they will be picked up in order the death happens. so the first free death-pick-up car (even if it is on the other city side) will got to that dead person. right?

my suggestion:
- more randomly ages should avoid death waves by age (every wave then will be weaker as the wave before)
- make crema-cars (or even all other service vehicles!) choose their "pick-up" by distance within their radius - if there is no one to pick up within the radius, the car should go outside the radius. the advantage is, that you can better cure local service-denies by plopping a service buildig nearby and you don't have to be afraid that the car will drive through the wohle city instead of going to an issue nearby.

That would really help and IMO should be "easy" (you know what i mean) to fix.

I don't think that the "green radius" shows the service building's range. It shows the happiness effect of the service building.
 
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ma2412

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that's possible.

anyway, those service cars should first service the nearby issiues and of course - if the nearby issues are solved - the issues, which are far away...
 
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