the "death waves"

[BadPeanut]

Good evening everyone, I'm just wondering what exactly is happening/what is the cause of these death waves?
I've never really experienced one, but i have a feeling it's because i take the game a lot slower than some people.

Is it a possibility that the death wave is caused by a zoning wave? by that I mean when you play, you lay down a lot of roads and zone them all at once. maybe even on pause? then when you play and everyone moves in they are all going to live for the same amount of time (ish although i'm gathering they live for the exact same amount of time?)

and then you do the same thing next time you expand out, you zone a whole bunch of land and it fills up all at once?

I think the reason i haven't run into this "bug" is because i take a more deliberately natural approach to my zoning. I like to think that I'm creating my suburbs by phases (like in reality) so i may build a lot of roads, but i only zone a small area a day or so at a time, that way i haven't got all my citizens aging at exactly the same rate.

This is the only thing i can think of that might be the problem? BUT please let me know what you guys think/if you know that's not the case, or maybe if you are guilty of the mass zoning, try the alternative and see if that fixes the "bug"?

just a thought guys, please discuss

 

[charlesnew]

Yeah. I haven't really experienced a death wave. I build similar to you.

I think death waves are caused by when you zone large amounts of residential at once. It mostly happens with high density because there are more people. Since high density tends to attract more young adults, they all move in at the same age as a young adult. Cims also die at the same age, so they all die together, causing a death wave.

So yeah, you're right.

 

[Co Starring]

I don't think I could consider it a bug. Maybe something that needs balancing (a CO representative mentioned something about the random factor maybe being a bit tight right now).
I wonder if this is how it is intended.

 

[Cropper]

I don't think I could consider it a bug. Maybe something that needs balancing (a CO representative mentioned something about the random factor maybe being a bit tight right now).
I wonder if this is how it is intended.

Its not a bug because it was designed this way by CO, it is not due to a mistake in the coding. Only a mistake in coding is a 'bug'

HOWEVER, it is an example of a design decision that needs to be rethought badly since its not fun, and adds no value or depth to the game.

The realistic implementation (that also adds value and depth to the simulation) is easy to describe, though perhaps harder to implement. Just allow (and perhaps even FORCE) cims to move from one house to another, or one neighbourhood to another over the course of their lives, possibly more than once before they die (like most people do in real life).

This way, even if you zone an entire high density area at one time, the zone will become populated by various aged CIMs, as people move in and out, thereby defeating the "death wave" mechanic before it hits.

BTW, this is exactly what happens in real life, and why entire neighbourhoods dont die at the same time in real life. Lots of neighborhoods, and entire giant suburbs are built "all at once" in real life, but they dont all die 82.5 years later and fall abandoned. This is because people move in and out of neighborhoods over their lifetimes, bringing with them different ages, kids and other family members. This way, neighbourhoods have diverse age groups living in them, purely due to the natural shifting of people due to circumstances in their lives (like increased wealth, better jobs, loss of job etc)

In addition, there should also be more randomness to how long CIMs live. There is a tiny amount today in the simulation, but not nearly with enough depth. Somewhere between 65-100 would be a good start, with a random chance of dying younger, plus a modifier if you work in dirty industry jobs that give you poor health etc.

 

[Chyll]

The realistic implementation (that also adds value and depth to the simulation) is easy to describe, though perhaps harder to implement. Just allow (and perhaps even FORCE) cims to move from one house to another, or one neighbourhood to another over the course of their lives, possibly more than once before they die (like most people do in real life).

But I am getting death wave participation in new neighborhoods, with cimizens that are older than the new residents around them.... I think they are moving and relocating. Perhaps not enough to fully model things realistically, but it is happening.

In addition, there should also be more randomness to how long CIMs live. There is a tiny amount today in the simulation, but not nearly with enough depth. Somewhere between 65-100 would be a good start, with a random chance of dying younger, plus a modifier if you work in dirty industry jobs that give you poor health etc.

The actual answer is more in lines with this, the age of death should be modulated more on a random range to limit mass occurrences.

 

[Cropper]

But I am getting death wave participation in new neighborhoods, with cimizens that are older than the new residents around them.... I think they are moving and relocating. Perhaps not enough to fully model things realistically, but it is happening.

If CIMs were moving from neighbourhood to neighborhood during their lifetimes, there wouldnt be deathwaves, because you would end up with a combination of ages by default.

If they are doing it, theyre not doing it nearly enough to cancel out the deathwave phenomenon, but more likely, they are not doing it at all.

If you are seeing neighbourhood changes, its more likely due to immigration which is a factor in the game.

I would like to get a definitive answer on this from CO, because deathwaves should not happen in this scenario. I am seeing entire neighbourhoods get decimated almost simultaneously, which points out quite clearly that all the citizens in that neighborhood moved in at the same time, at the same age, and died together, after never moving.

 

[BadPeanut]

i th

If CIMs were moving from neighbourhood to neighborhood during their lifetimes, there wouldnt be deathwaves, because you would end up with a combination of ages by default.

If they are doing it, theyre not doing it nearly enough to cancel out the deathwave phenomenon, but more likely, they are not doing it at all.

If you are seeing neighbourhood changes, its more likely due to immigration which is a factor in the game.

I would like to get a definitive answer on this from CO, because deathwaves should not happen in this scenario. I am seeing entire neighbourhoods get decimated almost simultaneously, which points out quite clearly that all the citizens in that neighborhood moved in at the same time, at the same age, and died together, after never moving.

but will you try zoning smaller amounts of your neighbourhoods and see if that works? maybe split your neighbourhood into 5 and zone one fifth every 2nd day or something?

 

[Chyll]

If CIMs were moving from neighbourhood to neighborhood during their lifetimes, there wouldnt be deathwaves, because you would end up with a combination of ages by default.

If they are doing it, theyre not doing it nearly enough to cancel out the deathwave phenomenon, but more likely, they are not doing it at all.

If you are seeing neighbourhood changes, its more likely due to immigration which is a factor in the game.

I would like to get a definitive answer on this from CO, because deathwaves should not happen in this scenario. I am seeing entire neighbourhoods get decimated almost simultaneously, which points out quite clearly that all the citizens in that neighborhood moved in at the same time, at the same age, and died together, after never moving.

I can only describe what I have seen and experienced, which is when a clear death wave starts and large portions of a single area of a city start dying off it is not 100% of the area, and simultaneously notable populations die off in areas just recently laid down. I admit I have not faithfully followed individual cims to see if they relocate, but the death patterns have led me to believe there is at least some movement occurring.

I agree, a definitive answer and a fix for this annoyance would be wonderful.

but will you try zoning smaller amounts of your neighbourhoods and see if that works? maybe split your neighbourhood into 5 and zone one fifth every 2nd day or something?

This is a valid work around, yes. But annoying it it's own way.

 

[FX2K]

I don't have much to say on the matter but this mod may well help:

[ARIS] Early Death - Nonpermanently adds the possibility for your CIMs to die early.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=421188880&searchtext=aris

 

[BadPeanut]

the only reason why i started this thread was to question the reason why CO might have done this deliberately. I have a feeling that they may have implemented such a 'annoyance' to try and get players to think about how much/fast they are expanding, and to limit that so that the game lasts longer, it's all very well and good to zone a lot very quickly to build your city up into a megapolis but there is a drawback if you do; you need an exceptonal death care service. however it might still be too much of a strict limit on the time of death and would add a depth to the simulation if people moved at least once (maybe on a random chance factor) and died at differing ages. I haven't seemed to run into any of the difficulties that others have been reporting (although half the 'bugs' people are talking about are probably because they are using an all areas unlocked mod which would explain why they run into the hard limits for objects/trees and roads but again I'm not sure how easy that is to achieve in vanilla 9 tile settting)

 

[Tropod]

I'd say there is some sort of issue; and I'd say the problem becomes more noticeable when you hit a wall & the problem compounds. ie sudden death spike, current services/facilities/network can't cope, this triggers bug/issue & makes problem worse.

I experimented with a city whereby I built custom crematorium with increased capacity & increased radius coverage & prodominantly using avenues; and not a single problem & no death wave encountered. Whereas previously I'd have massive death waves & population was fluxing really badly.

 

[Phil V]

Unfortunately these no available info on what they died of, old age, an accident or if they were murdered.

and just want to say I won't be posting for a while,, going into hospital for a bladder cancer op.

 

[Mantarny]

the death waves are becoming really frustrating ... I hit 250k pop, then a death wave comes... 60k dies then I slowly build back up to 250k... then 50k-60k die again... this has happen 4 times already... almost ready to give up

 

[BadPeanut]

@Mantarny do you zone all at once or only small amounts at a time?

 

[Mantarny]

I understand what your getting at... if the are all born at the same time, they going to die at the same time... but no I don't zone all at once..

what I thought was funny.. I made a "north" that I had no problems at all.. then around 180k pop.. I started dev the "south" area... then at 250k pop.. I had deaths EVERYWHERE. even the residential area that was just developed... you would figure the older zones would have older cims.. and thats were they would start dieing first.. but nope, pretty much every building someone died.

I did no major structural changes... no water pollution.. avg health was 81% Then after it got down to 190k.. stopped... and I slowly rebuild to 250k.. then it happen again... then one more time

right now I'm back to 230k pop... just waiting to see if it happens again... if so not sure what I'm going to do... I like this game.. but this is getting stupid... and Yes I do have the mod that randoms deaths for the death waves... but that doesn't help

 

[cRAGGLE]

I hope it's something which will be fixed in the next update. It's a bit unrealistic. But yeah, to avoid the waves gradually zoning seems to help.

 

[MarkJohnson]

I think the issue is because we're growing ouir cities past 9-tiles. The game is designed to run balanced withing 9-tiles. They already stated that going past 9-tiles will cause weird game behavior.

While this death wave can be forced by say, garbage not being picked up from enough dumps/incinerators, or bodies from not enough cemeteries/crematoriums, tax increases, traffic, etc.

It definitely not zoning too much at once. You can't just swipe the whole map in one shot. All death waves have been region wide. not just an isolated area I zoned all at once.

So if you get them early game, it's because something got out of whack and people died/moved out. and moved back in en-mass.

Otherwise I think it is just going over 9-tiles. I know is SimCity 2013, That tiny 2km x 2km map had issues, but when you added the Orion mod, it opened up 3km x 3km map sizes and caused imbalance everywhere. It was almost a different game from the way it changed game play.

They may not make any changes as it will throw the standard 9-tile map out of balance. Maybe they'll add a 25-tile set of rules for the unlock? Not to mention the 81-tile unlock. lol

 

[MarkJohnson]

I did no major structural changes... no water pollution.. avg health was 81% Then after it got down to 190k.. stopped... and I slowly rebuild to 250k.. then it happen again... then one more time

right now I'm back to 230k pop... just waiting to see if it happens again... if so not sure what I'm going to do... I like this game.. but this is getting stupid... and Yes I do have the mod that randoms deaths for the death waves... but that doesn't help

I had this happen too. It was traffic issues. I needed to add more freeway entrances to let traffic flow better/faster. Steets are slow, freeways are fast.

I just increased my health budget to 130% when the wave starts, then it cleans it up faster. Soon it will balance out over a few more cycles then everything will return to normal. I think it is 6 year cycles. Sims don't seem to age to scale.

btw, the deaths are already random. Just more realistic that the average sims lives a long life.

 

[CrazyHeadGamer]

cims should have a random death age when they appear in the city that's all...

 

[Chyll]

I think the issue is because we're growing ouir cities past 9-tiles. The game is designed to run balanced withing 9-tiles. They already stated that going past 9-tiles will cause weird game behavior.

I have never used more than 9 tiles and never even got the mod to go above 9. I still get the waves.