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dralizaar

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actually historically this era was a battle of maneuvering...he who outmaneuevered his foe to get to the other sides cities and lay seige fastest won...pitched battles iun the fields were actually failry uncommon and even rarer as the era drew on...thats what made some of Gustavs victories so spectacular is because battles of that sort hadnt happened in a long time...the era was about he who was better at seiges and maintaining them...and the portugese have good seige ratings so why not use them?..although if one wants to make it more challening you coudl switch tags with helvetia :) let them seige like mad while you struggle without any advantages

its very hard to avoid any kind of abuse...using TOT tags for example how can you not abuse that? players are far more aware than the ai of colonial value and placement and how to use that TOT to favor them or hinder the enemies, loan exploits others use but i dont...its supposed to use up a diplomat but it doesnt and people abuse that big time,
map swapping..another cheeze people consistantly swap maps...even going so far as to keep asking even after the nation says no till they say yes....i tend to balance mysel;f on this by actually asking one time only and then reguardless of yes or no offering gift of 25 ducats in payment...this way a diplomat is expended and some payment offered for the maps,
army composition the huge numbers of arty people place in their armies far more than historcially could have been aquired in order to make short seige times...the computer doesnt build that many which gives players a huge edge in seige warfare..next youll be saying one shouldnt build more cannons than your neighboring computer players have just to avoid exploiting this
exploration...we all know where everything is and whats valuable or not...the whole strategy of going for india or asia first is in of itself and exploit sicne technically we wouldnt know its more valuable till much later

my point is almost everything we do is an exploit on some level by nature we are humans and capable of using adaptive strategies which learn from past games and build on this///computers however cannot truly "learn" thus never improve

I try to fight using basic tactics used during that era <many smaller armies maneuvering to cut each others supply lines while fewer small armies actually went to lay seige>, i limit my armies to reasonable sizes <uslally never more than 2 times max manpower, i always payt for map swaps, i never use loan exploit, i never use bankruptcy/loan exploit, I do not rest/reload when things go agaisnt me, I always go for colonizing whatever i find first that will support me rather than keep looking for best ones...moor in tune with what natiosn would have done...they didnt "save" up colonists till they found something better..it wa s arace and they grabbbed everything they could as they found it, I do not convert just for cash and colonists...tending to stay historical for conversions if provinces justify doing so, i do not switch to crc after its gone despite it ending too soon, i focus on what each nation does best and try to expand in the directions they histircally had claim to or made evident their desire to do in historyc...i avoid the badboy wars seeing that as huge exploit<limiting myself to max 6 badboy >... so all in all i think im a very NON exploitive person
 

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Too loose rules for me :D Yes, manouvering may have been the main thing back then but the ai doesn't know that and can in no way even come close to a decent campaign like that. It's up to u how u (ab)use that ...
 

unmerged(4004)

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Originally posted by senex


I edit province.csv. nix tp at palanas, create colony 6 at accra(where el mina was historically) and give it about 63. in 1600 unplug it.
historically 1/2 all gold to europe came from here (ghana) from 1481-
1550's)

might have to try that myself one of these times. does it help the coffers or hinder them due to bankruptcy? i would think the influx of hard currency would cause inflation to skyrocket. i don't really know because generally i don't have gold-producing provinces.

dralizaar, i've hard of some people bumrushing spain right off the bat to grab the shipyard at andalusia. i tried that once and got hosed totally. anyone here try that strat?
 

Xanadu

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Inflation caused by gold does not have the impact that the manual says it does. The benefits of owning as many gold provinces as you can outweigh the inflation rise caused by owning said provinces IIHO.
 

unmerged(4633)

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Oh yeah short sighted strategist.

Thats the problem with this game, its so easy to get ridiculously rich and conquer the world that you have to have self-discipline to explore the deeper aspects of the game, and natrually no one ever does (except me, muhahahaha!)


3 points
1) Colonial CoTs are much easier to have a total monoply in. European nations, those who even know about the CoT, just dont try to hard to capture the CoT. Therefore, generally, if a CoT pops up in your territory, you can easily monopolize it, and reap ridiculous profits from it. This is keeping with history and the concept of Mercantalism, colonies for the profit of the motherland.

2) CoTs pop up in predeteremined "regions". These include East Coast NA, West Coast NA, Mexico, SA, Indonesia, etc. This does not mean only one pops up, as ive had 2 pop up and even 3 in regions. Manhatten and Detroit, Monterry and Aleutian Islands (odd one there), ive had 3 CoTs appear in the Indonesian Islands. Ive never seen ONE person get multiple CoTs though in one region (except via conquest). Further, the person who gets the CoT tends to be the dominate trading nation in the region, and the second CoT pops up when someone else takes the lead.

Ergo we can infer these things. The amount of trade generated in a region determines when a CoT pops up. And who has the majority of the trade in that region typically gets the CoT.

3) Trading Post are cheaper then colonies, not just on a one to one basis. Also remember it takes many colonist to build up a colony to a level where the colonies trade is the same as a level 1 trading post. Granted Colonies of that size also have production, which more then outweighs, but thats a diffrent point.


Using these 3 facts we can easily see the apparent use of Trading Post.

Controlling a colonial CoT is immeasurably profitable. Generally speaking trade completely outweighs production income by 1700 in most of my games. I ask you all next time you arent busy conquering the world, check out around 1650 how much of your income is trade and how much is production. Assuming you dont own all of Europe, youll be shocked to find even non-colonials will tend to have larger trade incomes. This is very historical.

It also means that one can easily assume the most effecient way to raise ones income is to GET A MONOPOLY OF A PROFITABLE COT. Thats in caps for emphasis. Conquering provinces is expensive. Satisfying yes, but expensive. Controlling a 200 or 300 European CoT is expensive because of competition, doesnt yield a whole lot, and makes enemies (-5 relations for competeing away a merchant).

But even a weak CoT in the not so profitable North America is worth some 500. And maintaining a monopoly is immeasurably easier.

Therefore, especially for a small country lacking military power such as portugal or the dutch, how can you raise your income? Force a CoT to appear in one of your provinces. How do you do that? Dominate trade in that region. Wont that take time and cost lots of colonist and money?

Not if you use Trading Post.

GASP!

Im shocked at how perfectly the game works according to history.

Using the powers of logic, I hope you can all see now why using trading post to force the opening of a CoT in one of your provinces so that you can aquire an easy monopoly and make tons of money is not meerly a smart thing to do, but THE smart thing to do for small trading nations.
 

dralizaar

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inflation from gold mines is a long term thing...ive seen it bad when owning like 7 or 8 mines it starts to show up...or in cases where gtold mines contribute too large a portion of your monthly income i believe..for example Incas if you watch will almost start gettign inflation from the get go despite not owning more than 4 gold mines maybe 5 and the aztecs have 2 or 3 gold mines and suffer the same thing//// gold mines dont seem to be bad untill they represent too large a portion of your monthly income i think, at least thats what ive observed in my games...i have often had 5 or 6 gold mines as poland <samara, armenia, styria,transylvania <small silver mine historical add in by me> monterey and yukon usually...and even when i have had the 3 siberian gold mines added it still didnt go up...but i saw as incas i ended up with almost 23% by mid 1550's with taxes set for zero and they didnt control as many gold mines as i did as poland... so again i say speculative but backed by personal experience that ratio of income represented by gold in your monthly taxes determines how much gold inflation effects will be
 

unmerged(4868)

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Originally posted by wingman
Do TPs count as territtory, if so the return is less than the added cost to research.

TPs and colonies dont count as "territory" when it comes to the determining the size of your empire as far as tech research cost goes.

Also, TPs and colonies never count as territory for the peace negotiation stars. They dont give you victory stars when you capture them.
 

unmerged(4271)

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Well, regardles of the their long-term use, I find TPs useful in the New World as "place holders", cutting off interior routes from the coast so I can expand into it at my own leisure. Also, no sense letting other countries grab up the profitable tobacco and sugar provinces until I have the money to do it myself.

Because Portugal starts so darned poor, you might as well use a few colonists to establish a presence in some areas you hope to colonize once you have the money. Otherwise you max out at 6 and waste all of that useful colonial dynanism.

Same through is true with Vinaland in IGC. The money's not there to expand colonially to meet your colonist capacity, so might as well try to earn some TP ducats and build up that CoT!
 

dralizaar

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colonies do count as stars in some fractional way..i won war with spain by occupying almost every colony she had in the carribean only with Vinland...and got 6 stars out of it and was able to demand 3 islands as result...did same next war against them although was only able to get 2 islands that time :(
 

Xanadu

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Originally posted by heagarty
Well, regardles of the their long-term use, I find TPs useful in the New World as "place holders", cutting off interior routes from the coast so I can expand into it at my own leisure. Also, no sense letting other countries grab up the profitable tobacco and sugar provinces until I have the money to do it myself.

Because Portugal starts so darned poor, you might as well use a few colonists to establish a presence in some areas you hope to colonize once you have the money. Otherwise you max out at 6 and waste all of that useful colonial dynanism.

Same through is true with Vinaland in IGC. The money's not there to expand colonially to meet your colonist capacity, so might as well try to earn some TP ducats and build up that CoT!

I use the same "place holding" tactic.Plus, Portugal might be able to afford 1 colonist then to use it dynamism you have to send traders after that.
 

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i often start my colonies by putting a tp there first, i seldom use tps otherwise. I do not play the big colonial powers so i often have more money then colonists.
 

Agelastus

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Originally posted by dralizaar
......gold mines dont seem to be bad untill they represent too large a portion of your monthly income i think, at least thats what ive observed in my games...

25% or more of monthly income............through experimentation. I like having the gold mines, but I always cover it by expanding my tax base by taking European provinces. I really don't like inflation..........it's almost atavistic with me!:)
 

unmerged(5524)

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CoT Monopolies

Coincidentally, GNGSpam's advice was illustrated for me last night. Playing Spain in my first GC (1.09), I've been concentrating on India and SE Asia. It's 1556, and a new CoT pops up in Mekong: 1700d and a 20/20 Spanish monopoly. Sweeeeeeet. :p
 

unmerged(3825)

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One of my favourite things about this game is the fact that different people can employ very different philosophies/strategies and still enjoy it and be successful.

In my current Portuguese campaign, I am using more of a French ethos: rather than mercantilism, my Portugal is looking to expand Portuguese culture and influence through sustainable establishment - far different than what the Portuguese actually did (outside of Brazil), and far earlier than France was able due to better naval tech and colonial dynamism. We'll see how it works out. But bottom line, it is way too expensive to colonize wide swaths of land right off the bat - therefore, I am very much using the TP placeholder approach, with a few key colonies in each region, until the trading income builds up enough that I can afford to establish more colonies and cities. Using similar approaches in the past, I find that trading income dwarfs my production income by 1540...and I concentrate on trade tech investment over infrastructure, at least early on, to maximize the trade income.

Incidentally, I never send a colonist without first establishing a TP, and rarely without having an army present...to do otherwise would simply be foolish, considering the expense of a colonist and the increased success rate with an existing TP and/or military presence.
 

dralizaar

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also conquistadors are well worth using to expand or setup colnies... they redcue cost of setting up as well as increasing chance of success reguardless of whether natives are present or not.. its roughly a 15/16% savings of cost off setting up colonies or tps with a conquistador present at least in the nations ive tested so far
 

Xanadu

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Also putting explorers off the coast of a coastal province you are tyring to colonize increases your chances.
 

Agelastus

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Originally posted by Xanadu
Also putting explorers off the coast of a coastal province you are tyring to colonize increases your chances.

I haven't noticed that-certainly, once the colony is in place the explorer needs to be in port for the bonus effect to occur.