The Curse of early Portuguese Colonists

[unmerged(1064)]

Does it seem to anyone else that the multitude of Portuguese Colonists is a curse rather than a blessing in the early game?

Portugal can earn a TON of money from trade, but that trade comes mostly from other countries. The fraction of Portuguse income derived from its own trading posts seem to me to be negligable.

Trading posts ARE a good way to start a COLONY in India and Africa. 7 colonists plus 1 trader is cheaper than 8 colonists. They are also good for reserving a good province to start a COLONY later.

But beyond that, it seems better to let early colonists waste away than to spend precious Portuguese ducats on trading posts that don't pay. Better one real colony in Indonesia or Siberia, than to have trading posts covering all of Brazil.

If I thought TPs helped influence the emergence of a new COT, I might reconsider. But right now it seems as if the return on investment for colonies is several times greater than the return on investment for trading posts.

This will be a hard idea for me to test, since I love to cover the world with these useless little Wall-Marts. Has anyone else tried this, or done the math to determine the true worth of a TP as compared to a colony which will probably develop a COT?

 

[Xanadu]

But all those TP put together in that one particular area will greatly benifit your research more than 1 colony ever will.

 

[unmerged(4964)]

Do TPs count as territtory, if so the return is less than the added cost to research.

 

[Dark_Teuton]

TP`s dont raise your tech costs.

 

[Xanadu]

TP do not and to census taxes. They have no tax value.
TP offer trade value to CoT's.

 

[unmerged(4261)]

I agree they do seem to stink - anyway you can only afford 1 colonist a year anyway, I've found

 

[dralizaar]

tps do count as provinces for bad boy though..if you diplo annex or military annex a nation that has them they inflate the points badboy goes up

they do however increase value of cots you control...by placing them you increase value of Tago <or whereever your capitol is> as your trade tech goes up this amount also goes up meaning more income for your merchants efforts...yes its slow but go after provinces worth goign after...cotton grain fish slaves just arent worth tping except to mark for colony later in game...tobacco early on is fantastic if you get most of them it can almost rival the spice trade < i had tobacco trade values at 43 in late 1500's owning almost every tobacco prov in the americas> sugar is not bad either, spice and chinaware are awesome, and ivory is good staple...furs are good if none of the others are avaiable..i need really see their value shoot up but they are solid and plentiful

tps also act as scouts allowing you to see neighboring provinces to keep eye on troops abroab and give some supply value to station a few troops for raids into enemy tps and colonies in the new world <no tp and they will waste away faster>

tps also give you a bonus 5% to placing colonies afterwards negated of course by the first colony which gives its own 5% bonus...i will use tps sometimes to agro natives sending them and hoping they fail on very hostile natives causing them to pop up...then while they up ill send a colonist since it will have a huge increased chance success...if he succeeds i send a ship of troops to the new port and they get in without agoring if they have conq leader you now get substanital boost to chance of placing more...if tp succeeds and they dont rebel right away odds on they may do so later <although as france this is supposed to be less likely> also some areas are just not worth colonies due to growth rates like much of africa..needing to get cities to 2k usually to bring growth rate to 0 5k to get growth without any penalties varying prov by prov <mogadiscio for exampl gets growth right away at 700...but mobasa needs 2k ...3k to get any positive growth so rather than build colonies go for level 6 tps...this gives you production income which goes into monthly taxes <level 6 tps get production values>

also like in africa the starting with a tp gives extra 10 men to pop which can save you 1 colonist time in setting up city in provs with negative growth...usually by time you get 6 colonist place to turn into city with natives you drop to 599 and need send another...but if you had tp you now have 609 and it assimilates natives

 

[Agelastus]

I've always regarded colonies as being a far better investment than TPs, if only because two men and a dog can't march in and burn colonies to the ground, meaning you have totally wasted a precious colonist!

Admittedly, I've never played a GC/IGC as Portugal.

 

[BiB]

I don't think they get enough Just build tps a lot till u got the money to go to colonies. Ur Tago COT value should really rise considerably. Monopolize that one and reap the rewards.

 

[Josephus I]

The only problem with the standard Portugal TPs in modern-day Brazil and Argentina is that they're really not worth very much---a little bit of fish and some sugar here and there. TPs are worthwhile, though, if you go after the lucrative spice and ivory ones in Asia--enough of them and your COT's really rise in value.

 

[unmerged(3408)]

plant the flag

But beyond that, it seems better to let early colonists waste away than to spend precious Portuguese ducats on trading posts that don't pay

TP's "plant the flag" as it were.

Portugal and Spain can claim half the planet before other European powers launch their first explorer.

By the time say France or England really get into the game, the world has been pretty much picked over. It's like showing up early to a big holiday dinner. You get your choice of the best dishes.

Re: cost. These early colonial powers only have a limited window in which to expand. Cost, shmost. Do it while you can. As the years tick by they Spain and Portugal get fewer and fewer colonists. Better to lay claim to half the world and defend from a position of strength, then start small and nibble away at the big guys.

 

[Xanadu]

I seem to beat everybody to Asia so for me SA is hard to acquire , but no impossible. SE Asia is much easier for me.

 

[unmerged(4004)]

Originally posted by Xanadu
I seem to beat everybody to Asia so for me SA is hard to acquire , but no impossible. SE Asia is much easier for me.

at least until the moguls or some indian kingdom decides they've had enough of the meddling whiteskins and dow's you. that happened to me when i played as portugal. i had one small army in my indian colonies and thought i was ok, since "the indian kingdoms only have exotic tech". wrong answer. that exotic tech and those mogul leaders lit me up, and all i could do was watch my colonies and tp's burn.

 

[unmerged(5190)]

noch mal

I love to play portugal the most, although i give them a gold mine in accra that runs out in 1600. With TPs you not only have to plant them, you have to control the COt, otherwise they are a waste. It costs money and effort to try to control a Cot, because others can muscle their way in.
Portugal simply runs out of money way before not enough colonists per year becomes a problem. I did not have the money to do anything. Also, you must put troops in most of india to hold anything, these troops must have cannon, otherwise they get clobbered. Brazil also is tough, both as climate/terrain, and native belligerence.

Sailing w/ Vasco da Gama to Malabar and fighting with Almeida is a thrill not to be missed.

 

[RobRoy3]

Originally posted by Skyjack

If I thought TPs helped influence the emergence of a new COT, I might reconsider. But right now it seems as if the return on investment for colonies is several times greater than the return on investment for trading posts....Has anyone else tried this, or done the math to determine the true worth of a TP as compared to a colony which will probably develop a COT?

Nothing so scientific, but it is my very strong perception that a COT is more likely to open up the more trade posts you have nearby.

So yes, your Tago CoT benefits from your TPs initially, but later, a bigger CoT, that should be easier to monopolize, benefits as well.

I find that focusing on Asia early on is a better use of limited resources, at least until you suceed in getting a rich CoT to open up in some place like Jakarta or Luzon (my favorites). I usually only build a few colonies early on...staging ports really, every 6-8 sea areas. For the rest, just build TPs, until you discover a nice candidate for a new CoT. The reason I mentioned Luzon and Jakarta is that they are among the next logical steps in your chain after Cochin, anyway, and you seem to discover them a lot...but no one else will know about them for a long time (along those lines, though, if you trade maps with Mysore, Vietnam, or Japan, do so before you send your explorers to these nice areas).

I don't waste any explorers time in South America anymore, until money is no longer an issue. When I do, if the Spanish haven't taken out the Aztecs/Incas...I will if I'm allied with them.

Similarly, I never try to monopolize a European CoT, no matter how lucrative...just doesn't seem worth the competition to get any of those beyond 5.

 

[unmerged(4004)]

I love to play portugal the most, although i give them a gold mine in accra that runs out in 1600. With TPs you not only have to plant them, you have to control the COt, otherwise they are a waste. It costs money and effort to try to control a Cot, because others can muscle their way in.

that's the problem i run into as well, senex. you start off in a seemingly strong spot: good geographic location and lots of explorers/conquistadores/colonists. but IMHO, the returns in the early game are not good enough to finance world colonization ventures, and i too run out of money well before 1600.

btw, you mentioned a "gold mine". how'd you get that? edit the game file?

 

[unmerged(3236)]

i think that tps and colonies have the same chance of creating CoTs, since you can have many more tps you get more CoTs with tps

 

[unmerged(5190)]

Originally posted by King Of Nines


btw, you mentioned a "gold mine". how'd you get that? edit the game file?

I edit province.csv. nix tp at palanas, create colony 6 at accra(where el mina was historically) and give it about 63. in 1600 unplug it.
historically 1/2 all gold to europe came from here (ghana) from 1481-
1550's)

 

[dralizaar]

my portugal doesnt have trouble really with cash...i tedn to annex morrocco early with first conquistador, invade spain during her wars with franc and nibble off toledo and the cot/shipyards... and gradually as game goes on ill keep nibbling away at spain..its not hard if you use several small armies rather than big ones...half of my wars <almost all those agaisnt spain> i dont even raise my maintanance levels laying seiges while at half sicne i avoid his armies most times

 

[BiB]

That's an easy way to win but IMO an in the end utterly dissatisfying way to "win" or play the game. Outsmarting, exploiting even a not too clever AI isn't sommink I look for in a game.