The current state of AoD; the good & the bad. Controversial AoD development proposals.

[MagooNZ]

Maybe I'm missing your point on your definition of Light Infantry Divisions. What would set Light Infantry Divisions apart from the current AoD Infantry Division?

The specialty that my proposed light infantry division would excel in (far more than any other div type) is revolt, partisan & dissent suppression. Because I propose to delete the Garrison div, its replacement (the light infantry) needed to have this specialty, so as not to leave a gap in the current game functionality. If the game was modified to include a lot more on the map partisan activity (even when the occupying country has 0% dissent), then junior axis countries could supply light infantry divs for partisan elimination (as well as suppression) in the occupied territories like ukraine & yugoslovia. Currently if an enemy partisan div does appear on the map (due to high dissent), and there is an adjacent Garrison division, the Garrison division cannot go into combat against the partisan div because the garrison div is not capable of moving. The partisan div is free to occupy other adjacent vacant provinces, until destroyed by a div with movement capability.

IMO I think we should not modify this. The Sino-Soviet border had many border conflicts and/or excursions, and the Soviets units were there for those reasons. These units were also more experience than their counterparts in Western Russia.

As I recall, the border incidents between the JAP & SOV nations are currently modeled in the game as events with fixed outcomes. There is currently no need for either country to locate actual divisions in and around Manchuria; the events still trigger. While I accept that this is a deficiency of the existing game, I think there are more important issues to address than having the SOV AI keep some motorised divs in eastern siberia. The game's terrain & weather in this location favors infantry, while the large province size favours motorised. I'm not even sure that the JAP & MAN AI countries keep divs in northern manchuria (for maintaining a semblance of reality for the border conflict events) while they are at war with CHI. In RL, Stalin did eventually move most (or all?) of the far east divs to defend Moscow once spies advised that a Japanese attack was unlikely.



Actually, another problem with off map strategic redeployment is, if say an unexpected crisis like a seaborne invasion occurred along the SR route, the SR'd divisions cannot divert to a new intermediate destination province to counter that invasion. SR only has the starting and destination provinces, and once SR starts only the destination province is relevant.

 

[Czarina Julie]

The specialty that my proposed light infantry division would excel in (far more than any other div type) is revolt, partisan & dissent suppression.

Why don't we just give the MP brigade a higher suppression value? Then the current leg infantry division can deal with them. I just think creating a new division that specializes in suppression when the current leg, wheeled, mechanized infantry divisions, Cavalry, and militia units can have a Police attachment is not worth it.

IRL regular army units are left behind in areas to hold territory and suppress any opposition.

SR only has the starting and destination provinces, and once SR starts only the destination province is relevant.

The team is looking into this regarding an AI controlled USSR (maybe move back some SR destinations). This only affects AI controlled nations, since human players determine the SR province.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

I'm also in favour of light infantry division, especially over garrison units. What troops are not able to move at all? It does not make much sense. Being able to have a clear difference in the quality of units, not just from land doctrines, would be great. As in having a clear distinction between an infantry and light infantry division.

EDIT: Although "light infantry" in the WW2 context appear to primarily be mountaineers, paratroopers and marines - which are already represented. Hmmmm.

Yeah after some research I think I'm happy with the current garrison and infantry unit system. The lines are blurred when it comes to brigades as a standard infantry division is equipped with them all - perhaps to the point where we'd do away with separate brigades, and instead researching ART would automatically boost the combat stats of infantry units. But this creates its own problems, we'd need to way to have the player pay for the cost in the upgraded equipment, so I think having multiple brigades in a unit would be the best approach with the current system we've got.

EDIT2:

Perhaps, given how AoD works, the best approach would be having the current infantry division effectively be a "light infantry division", but then, you can add upto 5 brigades (or really, battalions) to it, effectively giving players to option to turn it into a "full" infantry division, equipped with artillery, AA, AT etc. Meaning the division would start with 0 artillery bombardment, lower soft and hard attack, toughness etc etc, at a (much) lower IC cost.

This would then be further modified by having the option to attach upto 5 police brigades (read battalions) instead, with each one giving a little extra suppression (say 1 or 2) - meaning for it to be a great suppressing unit, it'd need to be a "light infantry" division in the true sense, as it'd mainly if not only have police battalions with no heavy equipment.

 

[Czarina Julie]

Yeah after some research I think I'm happy with the current garrison and infantry unit system.

What do you (and all others that read this) think of turning/changing the Garrison Division into a Reserved/Guard Division that would have lower statistics than an Infantry Division, but able to become a regular Infantry Division?

Perhaps, given how AoD works, the best approach would be having the current infantry division effectively be a "light infantry division", but then, you can add upto 5 brigades (or really, battalions) to it, effectively giving players to option to turn it into a "full" infantry division, equipped with artillery, AA, AT etc. Meaning the division would start with 0 artillery bombardment, lower soft and hard attack, toughness etc etc, at a (much) lower IC cost.

So we would have a basic Infantry Division with no support assets? Just a division of infantry and the player would "construct" an Infantry Division by adding certain Battalions like Engineers, Supply & Transport, Military Police, Artillery, Military Intelligence, Air Defense, Medical, Signal, Chemical, Maintenance, and Aviation (cargo, utility, and attack helicopters)?

If this was done for the infantry, we would need to do the same for Marines, Airborne, Mountain, Cavalry, Wheeled, Mechanized, Armored Cavalry, Armor Divisions. Additionally, all the current brigades would need to be redone as division attachments (battalions) and many new ones created (medical, S&T, MI, etc.). I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that it would take a lot of work and time. Even though I haven't discussed this with others in the 1.13 team, I can say with high certainty, that it wouldn't get into the 1.13 build due to the time.

Everyone reading this, please let us know if you would like to see something like this in a future release. Releases are done to fix issues/bug and implement things players want. Not voicing your wants and support for other's ideas, leaves the release teams guessing.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

What do you (and all others that read this) think of turning/changing the Garrison Division into a Reserved/Guard Division that would have lower statistics than an Infantry Division, but able to become a regular Infantry Division?

Sounds good to me, kind of like converting a Light Tank into a Medium one.

So we would have a basic Infantry Division with no support assets? Just a division of infantry and the player would "construct" an Infantry Division by adding certain Battalions like Engineers, Supply & Transport, Military Police, Artillery, Military Intelligence, Air Defense, Medical, Signal, Chemical, Maintenance, and Aviation (cargo, utility, and attack helicopters)?

If this was done for the infantry, we would need to do the same for Marines, Airborne, Mountain, Cavalry, Wheeled, Mechanized, Armored Cavalry, Armor Divisions. Additionally, all the current brigades would need to be redone as division attachments (battalions) and many new ones created (medical, S&T, MI, etc.). I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that it would take a lot of work and time. Even though I haven't discussed this with others in the 1.13 team, I can say with high certainty, that it wouldn't get into the 1.13 build due to the time.

Precisely, I can help with editing the soft code of the unit stats and AI, but wouldn't be able to do any hard coding.

I think a poll is in order Happy to help organise this, I was thinking of making a list of suggestions and having people vote in order of priority? As more suggestions come in, I can edit the list further. As I am not sure you can do an actually poll on here, but I can update the results in my original post as votes come in.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Also, not sure if you've seen MJF's suggestions here our Czarina

Here we go...

In case anyone reads this... As the brain trust is slaving away on version 1.13 (2.0? Where's Lennart Berg when you need him?), I have compiled some 2 cents suggestions, for what it's worth. 1. A better map - more provinces. We always clammer...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

And there's 60 (!) pages of suggestions here - https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/list-of-wishes-for-aod.464113/

I've also advertised as much as possible in Steam, perhaps one of the developers with authorisation can post an announcement there (seems only Lennartos has the ability to do so at the moment).

 

[Czarina Julie]

Precisely, I can help with editing the soft code of the unit stats and AI, but wouldn't be able to do any hard coding.

The biggest issue with making this change to infantry (and the other land units) is time. Currently, there is only one person that can/is working on the hardcode, they are also engaged in softcode/technologies, and there is a prioritized list of existing fixes and changes for the hardcode. So it all comes down to time.

As for soft code help, we can always use help. Do you have some ideas or current areas you like to contribute to?

I think a poll is in order Happy to help organise this, I was thinking of making a list of suggestions and having people vote in order of priority? As more suggestions come in, I can edit the list further. As I am not sure you can do an actually poll on here, but I can update the results in my original post as votes come in.

This is a great idea! It would help us with ideas and prioritizing things for the 1.13 and later releases. Thanks!

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

As for soft code help, we can always use help. Do you have some ideas or current areas you like to contribute to?

I'm of the personal view that anything soft coded can be "fixed"/improved by modders, most of my "list of wishes for AoD" are ones that require hardcoded changes. Therefore I think I'd be happy doing all the softcoded changes your hard-coder is earmarked for, to free them up to just do hard-coding. But am happy with anything really, can help with the new units/brigades you're introducing into the tech tree.

This is a great idea! It would help us with ideas and prioritizing things for the 1.13 and later releases. Thanks!

Will think it over and see what I can organise on this forum, and then post tomorrow or Friday

 

[MagooNZ]

Germany didn't normally use front line divisions in Russia for partisan suppression. For this they used troops from their lesser allies, low strength & poorly trained, poorly equipped formations, and volunteers from the occupied territories in order to test their loyalty. My proposed light infantry directly replaces the Garrison div and also the Militia div as well. I dont mind an upgrade path to a full strength infantry division. Note also that the light infantry div would be built by the smaller nations with limited manpower and would also find a valuable niche as an occupier of provinces with a beach in order to prevent an uncontested invasion.

 

[Czarina Julie]

that the light infantry div would be built by the smaller nations with limited manpower and would also find a valuable niche as an occupier of provinces with a beach in order to prevent an uncontested invasion.

Let me see if I understand you, Mr_B0narpte, and some others. You all want a cheap (cost) and not full strength Infantry Division (an infantry division that IRL would not have their normal support units...engineer, artillery, AA, Supply & Transports, MP, Medical, etc. Battalions) that cash (IC) scraped countries could build?

I would rather make/code a new type of division before modifying the existing Garrison (or militia). The reason is that every event, AI file, and each country setup file (.inc) for each scenario would need to be reviewed to see if it required changes/updates. Therefore, creating a new division type is preferable. IMHO, trying to put this enhancement into the current 1.13 release isn't feasible due to the work already needing to be done and time. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea (I'm thinking Central American, Southeast Asia, and some African countries would benefit from this) and have plans for new divisions but for later releases (1.14). Hope you all understand.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Let me see if I understand you, Mr_B0narpte, and some others. You all want a cheap (cost) and not full strength Infantry Division (an infantry division that IRL would not have their normal support units...engineer, artillery, AA, Supply & Transports, MP, Medical, etc. Battalions) that cash (IC) scraped countries could build?

Exactly! It enables players to choose what brigades/batallions their infantry consist of, thereby making a diverse choice of brigades/batallions far more appealing as if you specialise, you're missing out!

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea (I'm thinking Central American, Southeast Asia, and some African countries would benefit from this) and have plans for new divisions but for later releases (1.14)

I think every nation would benefit, major nations would be able to choose what their land divisions consist of and just lead to a lot more flavour, options and strategy - would also I though have appealed to you as I remember you saying you don't like the brigade system in place?

I'd rather keep the garrison and militia units, and so support it either being a new unit, or just replacing the standard infantry Division (which, if kept, kind of negates the point of having upto 5 batallions attached - unless it can still only equip one batallion/brigade compared to the light infantry).