“The Crown Atomic”: A Kaiserreich Cold War AAR (Canada and Entente)

[Anchises]

You're right. They have a very weak flank on their right. Manufacturing sex scandals and making outright threats only get you so far...

Especially when the whole authoritarian democracy runs into the typical problems of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Cookfl mentioned youth delinquency-which is a perfect topic for reactionary groups.

The same goes for the issues connected with immigration. And immigration is directly connected to the BYTs programm of Imperial Integration.

And if economic crisis hits I could see a rise of small government rhetoric.

Real opposition could form around the remnants of the old black church.

I could also see the rise of a british "George Wallace". A right wing populist agitating against the corrupt government and against immigrants.

And a Goldwater/Reagan figure is also possible imho. The cronyism and wasteful big government are easy targets. With the right rhetorical spin it would be possible to paint the model of Canadian dirigisme as quasi syndicalist...

 

[Superdark33]

And the "success" of Mittelafrika (and a possible Fascist-ish-er France {which from now on ill refer to as White France} should they part with the entente and join up with Mittelafrika) wiuld fuel the fire.


While Imperial Propeganda might show Equality Is The Only Way, the various hotbeds of reactionaries would react in their little ways, but lets not forget the progressives who are probably not too friendly with the BYT order either!


Taking an example in the NER: We have the Jazz city of New York, soon to become Disco City, with white men and black men dancing in clubs while looking outragous, Broadway essentially exporting the Hidden Gay Agenda (The one of "hey we are human beings just like you please emancipate", a messege probably bolstered by the surviving and thriving German Institution of Gender Studies).

All the universities in massachusetes are packed to the brim with the entente's best, and they get to meet people of many cultures....

But also, the universities are full with the Entente's richest, sons of aristocrats and capitalists, opposed to any change to the social order. These students would orginize rallies for bigotry, write papers dealing with how succesful the Göring regime is, showing the plight of the boer ("they wont let me apartheid in peace!") And buying their way into politics.

The rural areas in the upper state are packed to the brim with people who dont give half a damn that Equality Makes The Empire Strong, because they didnt ever see a BLAAAAAACK person sweat in the fields or mines like them! They all just stand in posters saluting, sing jazz, or dance the unga bunga in africa! And lets not talk about the crime!

And since there was no holocaust, plenty of the regular bigoted beliefs didnt have a proper stamping out of, so ilit might burst out in some form or another.

 

[Casko]

And the "success" of Mittelafrika (and a possible Fascist-ish-er France {which from now on ill refer to as White France} should they part with the entente and join up with Mittelafrika) wiuld fuel the fire.


While Imperial Propeganda might show Equality Is The Only Way, the various hotbeds of reactionaries would react in their little ways, but lets not forget the progressives who are probably not too friendly with the BYT order either!


Taking an example in the NER: We have the Jazz city of New York, soon to become Disco City, with white men and black men dancing in clubs while looking outragous, Broadway essentially exporting the Hidden Gay Agenda (The one of "hey we are human beings just like you please emancipate", a messege probably bolstered by the surviving and thriving German Institution of Gender Studies).

All the universities in massachusetes are packed to the brim with the entente's best, and they get to meet people of many cultures....

But also, the universities are full with the Entente's richest, sons of aristocrats and capitalists, opposed to any change to the social order. These students would orginize rallies for bigotry, write papers dealing with how succesful the Göring regime is, showing the plight of the boer ("they wont let me apartheid in peace!") And buying their way into politics.

The rural areas in the upper state are packed to the brim with people who dont give half a damn that Equality Makes The Empire Strong, because they didnt ever see a BLAAAAAACK person sweat in the fields or mines like them! They all just stand in posters saluting, sing jazz, or dance the unga bunga in africa! And lets not talk about the crime!

And since there was no holocaust, plenty of the regular bigoted beliefs didnt have a proper stamping out of, so ilit might burst out in some form or another.

Personally I feel that in TTL there is very little Racism in general, and more class based discrimination as the Social Engineering and what have you quite clearly makes the Entente, at very least more akin to a "Caste System with Ladders" one can try to climb up. and there is little to no clear cut racism. seeing as Imperial France is supported by the Maghreb peoples in the Africa. and Canada's whole ideology is that "every one is an equal before the King" be they a Sikh Indian or a African American or a Malayan.

And while Mittellafrica is quite clearly a mess, just waiting to blow at some point, its quite clearly despised by everybody, even Germany, and only reason Germany is not doing anything is mostly the logistics and the fear of complete loss of control in Africa and the loss of revenue Goering provides.

and South Africa is a mess to put it lightly no matter what time line.

 

[Superdark33]

Racism cannot be rid off overnight, especially not frim those who have anything to gain from it and DEFINETOY not when the ideal of Democracy itself has been thrown under the bus.

If anything, its more likely that the promoted equality is just continuing the ages old British tactic of claiming to be The Most Tolerant And Progressive In The World while being not much better than anyone.

 

[Casko]

Racism cannot be rid off overnight, especially not frim those who have anything to gain from it and DEFINETOY not when the ideal of Democracy itself has been thrown under the bus.

If anything, its more likely that the promoted equality is just continuing the ages old British tactic of claiming to be The Most Tolerant And Progressive In The World while being not much better than anyone.

Democracy has nothing to do with Racism or lack of it.
and I don't really see your point in trying to say somebody has to gain from Racism? who is gaining in TTL? its not the British, certainly not the French, nor the Germans, not even the Japanese. or Heck, AUS is suffering because of it.

And I'd not say that the Canada is continuing the British Strategy of First among Equals. as seen with the Home Isles been made into a Dominion among Dominions, much to the Anger of the Exiles. If anything it shows that TTL British Empire is far far far more tolerant and indeed is aiming for the complete "Equals among Equals" kind of stance.

 

[Superdark33]

Now youre refering The Germans or The French or The British, probably meaning the states as a whole.

What im meaning is the usual suspects:

Big money, old or new (of course with exceptions): The Junkers, The Lords, Capitalist Dynasties, Real Estate Inheritors, Survivorship Biased Success stories that reinforce the belief that "if you try and work hard youll succeed!!!" Like minority new money or other From-Rags-To-Gold cinderella stories.

They all arent too keen to belive all that race equality talk, mostly because they havent really met any yet and live in a bubble of loftiness that they are inherently better than anyone else because of any possible spin on Noble Blood, and they all are reletivly the same across all the Powers that be.

It is possible that the only stories they hear of mittelafrika are from the richer german settlers who visit the balls and other high society events across the world.

Plenty of people of that status did like Apartheid South Africa for these reasons.



Other people that gain from racism are the struggling middle-low and high middle class people who would rather see themselves as either "Obviously Rich People! We have a house and all!" Or as "We are rich but taking a break!" And would rather not have to worry about "competition".

 

[Anchises]

Racism cannot be rid off overnight, especially not frim those who have anything to gain from it and DEFINETOY not when the ideal of Democracy itself has been thrown under the bus.

If anything, its more likely that the promoted equality is just continuing the ages old British tactic of claiming to be The Most Tolerant And Progressive In The World while being not much better than anyone.

This.

On the on hand Europe and Russia have avoided the ideological extremes of OTLs 20th century (AMEROSUL is a different story...), on the other hand we have Mittelafrika showing us the harsh downside of the delayed CA world.

I think authoritarian states and continued colonialism are fertile ground for racism.

The BYTs forced internationalism is a farce. It's the same kind of anti-racism and internationalism that the Eastern Bloc promoted. Hollow propaganda and censorship that prevents the discussion of problems. If the BYT dictatorship collapses the resulting country is going to be similar to OTLs Russia (a lot of reactionary attitudes that the BYTs declared dead will resurface again).

And there is no state in the CA world that allows the kind of grassroots movement that is able to create real change in a society. The "Civil Rights movement" in Canada is a propaganda tool for the BYTs that only works because the AUS is a downright nightmarish place.

So in my view racism is alive and thriving in the CA world.

 

[Anchises]

Democracy has nothing to do with Racism or lack of it.

I would disagree. Dictatorships and other authoritarian regimes have a very bad track record in diffusing racial tensions.
Authoritarian regimes are heavily relying on a system of institutional corruption/patronage that uses privileges as a tool to ensure the loyalty of the population. The people enjoying this privileges are jealously guarding them. This is problematic because any serious attempt at bringing racial equality requires a certain amount of sharing power and wealth with previously disadvantaged groups. Personally I just don't think that the BYTs/planners would allow the rise of black people into their exclusive circles. Sure some powerless propaganda positions might be given to a few token black people but that doesn't constitute real change.

And personally I think you need a free public discussion to really change racist attitudes. Something that authoritarian regimes are not very fond of...

and I don't really see your point in trying to say somebody has to gain from Racism? who is gaining in TTL? its not the British, certainly not the French, nor the Germans, not even the Japanese. or Heck, AUS is suffering because of it.

I think it's crucial to differentiate between objective and subjective truth here.

Objectively Japan and the AUS would fare MUCH better without racism in the long run. The same is true for Germany and Canada.

Subjectively it's very different though.

The AUS has a very weak economy that creates no growth and is struggling with a constant shortage of jobs and consumer goods. So from the view of your average white blue and white collar worker ending segregation would mean allowing more competition on the job market. And that is not taking in account the old stereotypes and prejudices. So for ideologues equal rights are the worst case while people previously in favor might have changed their mind because they fear the increased economic competition.

In Germany we have the LGK as a proto civil rights movement. I don't think the LGK is about equal rights though. The LGK is a weird mixture of upper class philanthropists worried about Görings atrocities and leftists critical of colonialism in general. I would wager that at least 50% of the members are still in favor of colonial rule. They just want a more enlightened colonial government but they are still convinced of the "white man's burden".

In Canada it's mostly the need for labor that fuels the "colorblind society" the BYTs try to create. The Canadian model will experience a real challenge once the massive economic growth stops and people have to compete for work. And I have a sneaking suspicion that white Canadians wouldn't allow their children to marry a black person...

In Japan we have deep rooted supremacist racism. The whole imperial project Japan is pursuing is founded on the notion that only the superior people of Japan can create a stable Asia where the decadent western colonialism failed.

So I think a lot of people are convinced that it's their natural right to rule as member of their race. Most other people are busy looking out for themselves gladly accepting the diminished competition of racial segregation/discrimination.


I think the sharp class divides you mentioned actually fuel racism. Sure the Lords/Junkers/Businessmen are above us but at least we can look down on these filthy (insert race here)...

People tend to kick people already down instead of picking a fight with the people in power in most cases.

 

[Health]

I would disagree. Dictatorships and other authoritarian regimes have a very bad track record in diffusing racial tensions.
Authoritarian regimes are heavily relying on a system of institutional corruption/patronage that uses privileges as a tool to ensure the loyalty of the population. The people enjoying this privileges are jealously guarding them. This is problematic because any serious attempt at bringing racial equality requires a certain amount of sharing power and wealth with previously disadvantaged groups. Personally I just don't think that the BYTs/planners would allow the rise of black people into their exclusive circles. Sure some powerless propaganda positions might be given to a few token black people but that doesn't constitute real change.

And personally I think you need a free public discussion to really change racist attitudes. Something that authoritarian regimes are not very fond of...

The Soviets and the Eastern Bloc managed at least creating a facede of little to no racial tension and they just had the Central Asians and Caucasians to merge in. Now granted this came crashing down, when the Cold War ended. The BYTs at least at their start were very fond of pushing the Unified Empire narrative and that has yet to fall off at later points. Heck, the way they maintain power in SA is through enpowering blacks, at least nominally, to battle against Boers and their Apartheid narrative. The Empire in being a consumer society also benefits massively from inclusion, which means more money for those creating those consumer goods, which also propels further need to bring more people to the level of being able to get these goods. This is fundamentally different from most dictatorships/authoritarian regimes that we know. For all we know the Empire might manage what the Soviets couldn't and leave behind people whose first reaction won't be to slash their neighbours for having different coloured skin/another religion/etc.

 

[Anchises]

The Soviets and the Eastern Bloc managed at least creating a facede of little to no racial tension and they just had the Central Asians and Caucasians to merge in. Now granted this came crashing down, when the Cold War ended. The BYTs at least at their start were very fond of pushing the Unified Empire narrative and that has yet to fall off at later points. Heck, the way they maintain power in SA is through enpowering blacks, at least nominally, to battle against Boers and their Apartheid narrative. The Empire in being a consumer society also benefits massively from inclusion, which means more money for those creating those consumer goods, which also propels further need to bring more people to the level of being able to get these goods. This is fundamentally different from most dictatorships/authoritarian regimes that we know. For all we know the Empire might manage what the Soviets couldn't and leave behind people whose first reaction won't be to slash their neighbours for having different coloured skin/another religion/etc.

I would disagree with your perception that the Empire is different from most authoritarian regimes/dictatorships we know.

The building blocks are just the same. They are just arranged differently.

IBOL is very similar to the system the Nazis employed in Germany. A few worker benefits and the illusion of caring but actually it's designed to prevent the workers from representing their political interests.

The whole political system of faking democracy is inspired by the states of the Eastern Bloc. It's more advanced than the obvious fake democracy of the GDR but the structure of a powerless president/parliament and a powerful small circle of planners (the politburo) is similar.

The actual political system is similar to the charismatic rule of Hitler. A central leader that mediates conflicts and decides about the "big picture decisions" surrounded by a small cadre of very powerful officials competing for his attention. Official titles are meaningless, the deciding factor is the Kings favor because he grants and retracts power.

The economy seems like a even more state centered version of french dirigisme with an added layer of cronyism and institutional corruption. I think this thread isn't the place to discuss race relations in France but I think it's sufficient to say that the integration of immigrants from former colonial subjects is far from perfect.

I just don't see why the Canadian approach is more sustained than the Soviet one. The Soviet ideology had a much stronger ideological base for actual racial harmony ("class is the actual problem" "anti-colonialism/imperialism"). The new British Empire is tied way to close to the Old one to really allow complete racial equalization. And there is no need. The AUS is no alternative so the small concessions the BYTs grant are the best thing Hispanics and African-americans are going to get.

 

[Maximus101]

It should also be pointed out that even with the most generous interpretation of the social policy of the BYT, they were pushing even harder with eradicating the culture of first nations and aboriginal peoples in Canada and Australasia then what happened historically.

We should also remember their accommodations and alliance with Quebecois conservatives.

 

[TheRemQc]

We should also remember their accommodations and alliance with Quebecois conservatives.

Speaking of this, may I bring to your attention the situation of Québec?
Because, as we are approcahing the 60s, we are closing in on the OTL date of the start of the quiet revolution.

Crown Atomic altered the course of history a lot but can't change the fact that some five millions (maybe more with french emigrates? I have memories of demographic figures a couple hundred posts ago...) francophones are living in Québec and are most likely not very happy with their situation.
Even in OTL, the Québécois were subjected to censorship and –to a lesser degree than in Crown Atomic though– electoral control (which explain which Maurice Duplessis stayed in power 15 years). Don't get me wrong, Duplessis was not evil, he initiated some of the early megaprojects of the quiet revolution and contributed to build the Québécois government as we know it today, but his cultural legacy is... mitigate. And this is bad because that's exactly what people cared about these days.

Now, I don't know what @cookfl have in mind for Québec but I think a total absence of dissent in the province would be a little bias. OTL, the quiet revolution marked the end of an area, the term Canadien-Français fell out of use and the Québécois decided they were different from the other francophones of Canada. In CA, I could easily see this becoming a more nationalist movement, Québécois never cared much about the British Empire since the 1917 conscription crisis and when your only two choices on the ballot are either the Tories or the Imperials, this can't end well.

Duplessis is going to die in 1959 (September 7th 1959 in OTL, for CA that's up to the author) and the chances for the Union Nationale to win the elections whitout him are very low (OTL they came back between 1966 and 1970 but the party died afterwards) and if Jean Lesage becomes Prime Minister, things are going to chance rapidly. Lesage is not a separatist, he often stated his love for Canada and never intended to cut the ties with Ottawa, but he's a reformer and will try to change the province. If Ottawa try to stop him and interferes in the provincial business, I don't think the Québécois will take it lightly... One should remember that an actual terrorist group was in activity during the 1960s in Québec and although in OTL the FLQ struggled to attract support, it could be different in TTL.

IMO, a POD in 1917 –the Kaiserreich one– is too late to avoid the quiet(?) revolution, to do so, one should go back to the Confederation or not much later. The 60s can't just go smooth for Québec, the society have to change, it is backward and almost feudal. Moreover, with their deal with the Duplessis administration, the BYT have linked themselves with the man considered by the intellectual elite in Québec as the responsible for all the problems of the province. They are stained, they cannot be part of the solution.

 

[annsan]

and DEFINETOY not when the ideal of Democracy itself has been thrown under the bus.

For most of the 20th Century the decidedly non-democratic USSR was way ahead of democratic America in race relations. Look at people like Paul Robeson choosing to go there. There’s a good argument to make that democracy (really majoritarianism) caused segregation etc in America or at least kept it going longer than it would have. The authoritarian democracies don’t have majoritarianism so if anything they’re in a stronger position to enforce inclusion than traditional democracies

 

[zenphoenix]

For most of the 20th Century the decidedly non-democratic USSR was way ahead of democratic America in race relations. Look at people like Paul Robeson choosing to go there. There’s a good argument to make that democracy (really majoritarianism) caused segregation etc in America or at least kept it going longer than it would have. The authoritarian democracies don’t have majoritarianism so if anything they’re in a stronger position to enforce inclusion than traditional democracies

Wasn't there also the Holodomor, the forced resettlement of Cossacks and Tatars, the expulsion of Germans, deportation of Armenians, Koreans, Finns, Chechens, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, and Poles, and the forced relocation of indigenous Siberian peoples?

 

[annsan]

Speaking of this, may I bring to your attention the situation of Québec?
Because, as we are approcahing the 60s, we are closing in on the OTL date of the start of the quiet revolution.

Crown Atomic altered the course of history a lot but can't change the fact that some five millions (maybe more with french emigrates? I have memories of demographic figures a couple hundred posts ago...) francophones are living in Québec and are most likely not very happy with their situation.
Even in OTL, the Québécois were subjected to censorship and –to a lesser degree than in Crown Atomic though– electoral control (which explain which Maurice Duplessis stayed in power 15 years). Don't get me wrong, Duplessis was not evil, he initiated some of the early megaprojects of the quiet revolution and contributed to build the Québécois government as we know it today, but his cultural legacy is... mitigate. And this is bad because that's exactly what people cared about these days.

Now, I don't know what @cookfl have in mind for Québec but I think a total absence of dissent in the province would be a little bias. OTL, the quiet revolution marked the end of an area, the term Canadien-Français fell out of use and the Québécois decided they were different from the other francophones of Canada. In CA, I could easily see this becoming a more nationalist movement, Québécois never cared much about the British Empire since the 1917 conscription crisis and when your only two choices on the ballot are either the Tories or the Imperials, this can't end well.

Duplessis is going to die in 1959 (September 7th 1959 in OTL, for CA that's up to the author) and the chances for the Union Nationale to win the elections whitout him are very low (OTL they came back between 1966 and 1970 but the party died afterwards) and if Jean Lesage becomes Prime Minister, things are going to chance rapidly. Lesage is not a separatist, he often stated his love for Canada and never intended to cut the ties with Ottawa, but he's a reformer and will try to change the province. If Ottawa try to stop him and interferes in the provincial business, I don't think the Québécois will take it lightly... One should remember that an actual terrorist group was in activity during the 1960s in Québec and although in OTL the FLQ struggled to attract support, it could be different in TTL.

IMO, a POD in 1917 –the Kaiserreich one– is too late to avoid the quiet(?) revolution, to do so, one should go back to the Confederation or not much later. The 60s can't just go smooth for Québec, the society have to change, it is backward and almost feudal. Moreover, with their deal with the Duplessis administration, the BYT have linked themselves with the man considered by the intellectual elite in Québec as the responsible for all the problems of the province. They are stained, they cannot be part of the solution.

Honestly I’d be surprised if Duplessis made it this long. The BYT might have needed him in ‘36, but they probably put polonium in his coffee ten years later and replaced him with a BYT version

Wasn't there also the Holodomor, the forced resettlement of Cossacks and Tatars, the expulsion of Germans, deportation of Armenians, Koreans, Finns, Chechens, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, and Poles, and the forced relocation of indigenous Siberian peoples?

Don’t want to go into forum problematic territory but these were more about politics than race IMO. Like the USSR the BYT are a multiethnic society but not multi-cultural or multi-ideological

 

[Superdark33]

The relocations were racist/culturist, because their justification was "people of XYZ disposition are not good for our ideaology so we need to exterminate them".
You cant really justify it being inherebtly political in nature.


Multiculturalism in the USSR and the CA Enpire is considered good as long as you conformed to the mold you were cast in, as in the Enpire's English Exile Elite or Scottish Industrialist Intellectual or The Funny Oirish or Clueless Indian or Canadian Eh or anything else.
The entire foundation of the society is still based on the Aristocratic practices of overly dramatic customs and traditions, where simple acts of manners and such are political weapons, and insulting one based on where they were born or how much money they have or the type of suit they wear or the length of their spadroon or cane or baton or how good they are at dancing at The Ball or how Big is their Estate, the Racism and Culturalism is inherant in the Classism and you cannot divorce then easily.

 

[Anchises]

The relocations were racist/culturist, because their justification was "people of XYZ disposition are not good for our ideaology so we need to exterminate them".
You cant really justify it being inherebtly political in nature.


Multiculturalism in the USSR and the CA Enpire is considered good as long as you conformed to the mold you were cast in, as in the Enpire's English Exile Elite or Scottish Industrialist Intellectual or The Funny Oirish or Clueless Indian or Canadian Eh or anything else.
The entire foundation of the society is still based on the Aristocratic practices of overly dramatic customs and traditions, where simple acts of manners and such are political weapons, and insulting one based on where they were born or how much money they have or the type of suit they wear or the length of their spadroon or cane or baton or how good they are at dancing at The Ball or how Big is their Estate, the Racism and Culturalism is inherant in the Classism and you cannot divorce then easily.

Agreed.

I think it's important not to confuse a policy that strives for total cultural assimilation with the anti racist attitude of OTL.
The Soviets for example were absolutely convinced that their way of life was absolutely superior and their were willing to completely break certain ethnicities because their way of life was deemed "counterrevolutionary". And I have no source available but I am fairly certain that the people of the Asian Soviet Republics were treated as 2nd class citizens by the European inhabitants of the Soviet Union (take that with a big grain of salt though i am really not sure).

And for CAs Canada:

They are a twisted and proto-fascist continuation of British Imperialism. Their whole ideology is based on the notion that white Anglo-Saxons produced the best culture that has ever inhabited the earth. The Soviets at least paid lip service to internationalism, the BYTs are convinced that the Anglo-Saxon culture is the best. Sure they accept other races now (as long as they accept the Imperial culture) but that's a "white man's burden" thing imho. After long and careful British rule they are now ready to be "partners" (dying in the trenches but not leading armies or marrying white daughters anytime soon).

And that's the official state policy. Privately in such a society racism is probably widespread in all classes. There is nothing to combat the old prejudices.

 

[JodelDiplom]

Agreed.

I think it's important not to confuse a policy that strives for total cultural assimilation with the anti racist attitude of OTL.
The Soviets for example were absolutely convinced that their way of life was absolutely superior and their were willing to completely break certain ethnicities because their way of life was deemed "counterrevolutionary". And I have no source available but I am fairly certain that the people of the Asian Soviet Republics were treated as 2nd class citizens by the European inhabitants of the Soviet Union (take that with a big grain of salt though i am really not sure).

And for CAs Canada:

They are a twisted and proto-fascist continuation of British Imperialism. Their whole ideology is based on the notion that white Anglo-Saxons produced the best culture that has ever inhabited the earth. The Soviets at least paid lip service to internationalism, the BYTs are convinced that the Anglo-Saxon culture is the best. Sure they accept other races now (as long as they accept the Imperial culture) but that's a "white man's burden" thing imho. After long and careful British rule they are now ready to be "partners" (dying in the trenches but not leading armies or marrying white daughters anytime soon).

And that's the official state policy. Privately in such a society racism is probably widespread in all classes. There is nothing to combat the old prejudices.

The Soviet communists did *not* believe their Russian, Ukrainian, etc culture was superior in any way. They adored German, French etc culture and thought. Much like Americans do.

But they thought their political system (well at least the principles on which it was built) was the bestest ever, and that everyone should adopt it to make the world a better place. (much like Americans do)

 

[Superdark33]

It doesnt have to say "Im the superior culture" to be racist when targetting specific cultures to erase.

 

[annsan]

I mean it’s still 1958 in this world so I think the real question is whether Imperial culture in 1958 is less racist than democratic western culture in 1958 not democratic western culture in 2017. It seems incorrect say a superficially anti-racist culture is somehow worse than an actively racist one regardless of whether it’s ‘democratic’ or not. People are very harsh on tokenism these days but tokenism is historically the first step to inclusion