The Consequences of a Greek Victory in the 1919-22 Greco-Turkish War

[NapoleonComple]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919–22)

This was a war that saw Greece trying to take European Turkey (sans Istanbul, which was to become an international demilitarised zone) as well as take Greek enclaves in Anatolia. The Greeks, as it turns out, were utterly crushed. What would have been the historical ramifications had Greece won this war instead?

To put this into perspective, this war essentially prevented the partition of Turkey by Greece. The Treaty of Sevres, signed in 1920, stipulated the carving up of Turkish territory by the Greeks, Italians, French and British, as well as a large block of territory going to Armenia and the possible creation of a Kurdish state. The potential border changes are rather starkly displayed in this picture in the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TreatyOfSevres_(corrected).PNG

 

[soda7777777]

It would destroy the credibility of Ataturk and the Grand National Assembly, that's for sure.

 

[Kyriakos]

"Utterly crushed" is not at all what happened. The army never lost, it just failed to keep on advancing, and then, near Amorion (and the Sacharion river) it was ordered to retreat.

That war was not won or lost, it was decided upon by the foreign powers (mostly Soviet Russia and France, with their supplies of arms to rebel Turkey). France even demanded that eastern Thrace (Greek land again with the treaty of Sevres) would be given to rebel Turkey, which was not really in a position to launch an invasion.

Regarding what would have happened if we had won: Greece would utlimately get Constantinople in the long run, and be a more important country. The overall outcome depends on how WW2 would have materialized, though, so can't say how it would look in the end.

 

[Rodenbach]

Its an interesting what-if scenario. Maybe it would maybe have lead to the Turks joining the Axis again in in the second world war exchange for lost territory

 

[diegosimeone]

I'd have my family's coast side estates in Smyrni, that's for sure

But pretty much what Kyriakos said. I'll just add that the foreign powers were acting both ways. The Greeks were abandoned by the foreigners and they were told that the Turks would crush them so they gave up, there were conflicts in the inside (as usual) which prevented a proper military operation but essentially it just proved that Venizelos & co were below par and also it gave the prelude of what would follow from foreign powers. Greece would be overlooked, ignored, used and never appreciated, something that carried through the remainder of the 20th century (issues around Dodecanese, Cyprus, Ionian islands, Epirus, Thrace, "population exchange", Cyprus again, war reparations, historic monuments scattered around, Macedonia, Cyprus once more and finally the euro crisis)

But with this success you never know how Greek politics fare in the end since it would mean that there would be stability, so no constant change of tyrants, maybe no more monarchy... so come WW2 we can't say how Greece would approach things. A lot would be at stake between Greco-Italian relations. I trust that they would be much better in the interwar years since Mussolini was allegedly a fan of the 'una faccia una razza' concept so I trust they'd make a deal between the Dodecanese & northern Epirus and Greece giving military as well as naval access (Bosphoros) to the Axis powers.

I'm assuming that eventually Turkey would either cease to exist or would be reduced to a small state around Ankara.
Armenia could receive its former land which is the part north of Cyprus.
Kurdistan may have formed through the eastern Turkish parts.
A couple of states within Turkey could have formed as well.
Bithynia, Nicomedia and Pontus could eventually join the rest of Greece (Pontus = areas of Samsun and Trabzon)
And of course Cyprus would be under no Turkish occupation and be part of the rest of Greece like Crete has managed to.
Of course all this bearing in mind that neither Greece nor Turkey joins the war too soon or at all.

 

[Lord Finnish]

The world would be a better place.

 

[Iche_Bins]

"Utterly crushed" is not at all what happened. The army never lost, it just failed to keep on advancing, and then, near Amorion (and the Sacharion river) it was ordered to retreat.

I know another country that made that claim during WWI

Just quoting wiki here, but:

The major Greek defense positions were overrun on August 26, and Afyon fell next day. On August 30, the Greek army was defeated decisively at the Battle of Dumlupınar, with half of its soldiers captured or slain and its equipment entirely lost.

On September 2, Eskisehir was captured and the Greek government asked Britain to arrange a truce that would at least preserve its rule in Smyrna.[

Gemlik and Mudanya fell on September 11, with an entire Greek division surrendering.

Within two weeks the Turks drove the Greek army back to the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[ap08]

Its an interesting what-if scenario. Maybe it would maybe have lead to the Turks joining the Axis again in in the second world war exchange for lost territory

Which, in turn, would have resulted in the defeat of Soviet Union due to another front in the south and very possibly the loss of oil in Baku.

Not sure if this makes the world a better place, certainly not from the Russian point of view.

 

[Rodenbach]

The world would be a better place.

Or would be even more broke

 

[Kyriakos]

It will be more broke soon anyway

In my view Greece pretty much died in 1922. It had tried to get out from the shadows which surrounded it in 1453, the labyrinth was almost leading finally to actual light. Then a sudden noise, a bad thought to turn back and see, the minotaur already had passed its horns through the scull of Theseus

(maybe things will change, once more, but currently most of the west seems to be moving towards a vortex which may carry inside it a nightmare far more horrible than those of the past. Or, alternatively, a return to that final corridor, towards that pleasant light)

 

[Jos de trol]

It will be more broke soon anyway

In my view Greece pretty much died in 1922. It had tried to get out from the shadows which surrounded it in 1453, the labyrinth was almost leading finally to actual light. Then a sudden noise, a bad thought to turn back and see, the minotaur already had passed its horns through the scull of Theseus

(maybe things will change, once more, but currently most of the west seems to be moving towards a vortex which may carry inside it a nightmare far more horrible than those of the past. Or, alternatively, a return to that final corridor, towards that pleasant light)

what????

 

[Kyriakos]

what????

I write literature for a living (or a death), so i suppose i am fond of metaphors

 

[Rodenbach]

Totally of topic, but what are you exactly writing about?

 

[Kyriakos]

Psychological horror might be a good vague term for it, i suppose

Basically i write short stories (most are up to 10 pages) which are often centered on the hallucinations (or other special twists of thought) of a narrator who is isolated and estranged. They tend to have ominous forms or a sense of impeding catastrophe. So i am happy that i am published!

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Psychological horror might be a good vague term for it, i suppose

Basically i write short stories (most are up to 10 pages) which are often the hallucinations of a narrator who is isolated and estranged. They tend to have ominous forms or a sense of impeding catastrophe. So i am happy that i am published!

My god, you're that same guy from civfanatics, aren't you?

 

[Kyriakos]

My god, you're that same guy from civfanatics, aren't you?

Not really, he is the same guy as me.

 

[Doukan]

A decisive victory on either side would almost certainly have resulted in a worse genocide, it's probably for the best it ended in a stalemate.

 

[Amallric]

Psychological horror might be a good vague term for it, i suppose

Basically i write short stories (most are up to 10 pages) which are often centered on the hallucinations (or other special twists of thought) of a narrator who is isolated and estranged. They tend to have ominous forms or a sense of impeding catastrophe. So i am happy that i am published!

Sounds like a fitting genre for 2013 Greece.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sounds like a fitting genre for 2013 Greece.

It is (and a bit of a " " for me too, i suppose). It seems the genre is currently expanding here anyway, although i hope the future will be better for all people.

 

[Lord Finnish]

It is (and a bit of a " " for me too, i suppose). It seems the genre is currently expanding here anyway, although i hope the future will be better for all people.

I think Greece should expand as well

Queen city and all that.