The Community Leader/Minister Improvement Project

[Myth]

since I have too many leaders to investigate, I won't bother doing them all at one time but instead do them by book/half book. first book, the memoirs of a Latvian soldier at Kholm: Fortress Cholm, by Oskars Perro. he mentioned two generals only (well, three but one of them was Scherer, who we definitely added). these two generals are: Infantes and Von Unckermann. Infantes took over command of the Blue Division from Munoz Grandes and was the commanding officer during the battle of Krasny Bor. Von Unckermann was the general who eventually relieved the Kholm pocket.

SPA:
Infantes - he exists as a 1/4 engineer. considering his record at Krasny Bor (the Spaniards, some 5,900 or so, held off an attack by the 44,000 man 55th Army), I suggest bumping him up to a 3/6 EN, DD.

GER:
Infantes - he took over in '43, so that's when he should start. since iirc the Blue Division was pulled out in '44, that's when he ends. same stats as revised Infantes--3/6 EN, DD--ideal major general and he remains one.
Von Unckermann - '42 start '43 lt general, I'd place him at 2/5, possibly a fortress buster because his was the artillery that supported the Cholm pocket (which is known as iirc the only encirclement where the supporting artillery was on the OUTSIDE of the pocket).

I have a picture of Von Unckermann (and I also found one of Postel!) but since my new laptop doesn't have photoshop I need to get it before I can do anything with them. hopefully that won't take too long. don't worry, the other two books I have are rather more meaty in terms of leaders (one has a dozen or so to investigate [german], the other probably ~50 [mostly soviet] )

 

[von_Ysselstein]

Von Unckermann - '42 start '43 lt general, I'd place him at 2/5, possibly a fortress buster because his was the artillery that supported the Cholm pocket (which is known as iirc the only encirclement where the supporting artillery was on the OUTSIDE of the pocket).

You definately mean von Uckermann i have him in as well he's in the file i sent you with pic already : Generalleutnant Horst Freiherr von Uckermann, Cdr 218th I.D. Eastern Front Northern Sector

Edit: Maybe he should be Winterspecialist, the battle of Cholm Pocket lasted during winter 41/42 and ended with succesfully breaking the encirclement in spring; just a thought

Thanks you pointed me at Scherer he will be WS anyhow

 

[von_Ysselstein]

von_Ysselstein,
People may have had trouble downloading your leader pack, as I did. RapidShare is giving me that annoying "Maximum Downloads Exceeded" bullsh*t, even though I haven't downloaded anything from that site in a couple of months. Can anyone here host this? I'd like to see it.

Bumping up


JBunnelle, Phoenix & Myth: Is there any reliable host you know of you'd recommend so i can make my pack downloadable without annoyance...?

 

[unmerged(51416)]

You can always try this one:
http://xthost.info/

 

[Myth]

You definately mean von Uckermann i have him in as well he's in the file i sent you with pic already : Generalleutnant Horst Freiherr von Uckermann, Cdr 218th I.D. Eastern Front Northern Sector

Edit: Maybe he should be Winterspecialist, the battle of Cholm Pocket lasted during winter 41/42 and ended with succesfully breaking the encirclement in spring; just a thought

err, yeah. von uckermann. I'm not sure why I spelled it incorrectly, I added him correctly. also, imho he shouldn't have WS, for the exact reason you have--the pocket was only relieved (by von uckermann) in the spring, after the winter and after the soviets had exhausted themselves against the steadfast cholm defenders.

Thanks you pointed me at Scherer he will be WS anyhow

yup, I (at least) have him as a 3/7 WS, DD, LW iirc

Bumping up


JBunnelle, Phoenix & Myth: Is there any reliable host you know of you'd recommend so i can make my pack downloadable without annoyance...?

not sure...

 

[Phoenix Dace]

I've been using three different sites, mostly because I just don't like Rapidshare.

http://files-upload.com/
http://www.bigupload.com/
and Rapidshare.

My computer's still broken, so still no work. It's aggravating.

Also, does anyone know if it is within the realm of modding to add more leader traits with varying effects, or is that hard-coded?

 

[von_Ysselstein]

Updated Historical German Leaderfile present download location (No Climp, from Scharlemanje's Scorched Earth):


Scharlemanje's GER Leaders & -Pics

 

[gunboat]

if this is answered in the 18 pages of the thread I apoligize, but if you have 1.1 patch for ARMA, you do not need to download this mod, correct? [it is already in ARMA]

 

[Myth]

up to a certain extent. we have, however, done work beyond what has shown up in in the patch.

 

[Myth]

ok, proposed changes for Japan's naval leaders, based on Hara Tameichi's Japanese Destroyer Captain. he was the Unsinkable Captain, he wrote Japan's manual on torpedo warfare so I think his views carry some weight. and he was highly critical of the IJN's entire high command, starting with Yamamoto's terribly flawed and failed strategies all the way through to the end.

thus, I propose to decrease Yamamoto by 2/2 (because his was the terribly flawled strategy that rigidly set the Japanese navel effort for years, leading to catastrophic defeats and made poor subordinate choices--Hara T. was very damning). I'd then decrease Hata, Ozawa, Kondo, Nagano by 1/1.
Ijuin - new admiral. begins '43, vice admiral '44 posthumously. performed well, I'd say 2/6 superior tactician, blockade runner for his success in managing to evacuate soldiers from some island and largely using his destroyers well. full name Ijuin Mitusuji, need to find a picture of him
Kakuta - Hara praises him as being the type of commander Japan needs--aggressive. he already exists, so I'd say give him superior tactician.
Kimura - new admiral, Kimura Susumu, from '42, vice '44. Japan's top navigator but disinclined to battle a 3/5 spotter. no picture
Matsubara - new admiral, Matsubara Hiroshi, no picture. don't know his dates either, though I guess '42 would be a decent guess. 1/5
Omori - new admiral, Omori Sentaro, no picture. incompetent bastard from '40/'42. 1/4
Yonai - Hara says that at one point Yamamoto threatened to resign as commander in chief of the navy so that he could command the pearl harbor attack, in favor of yonai (who declined). Hara believes Yonai would have been as good if not better than Yamamoto, so match them in stats. Yonai should also be an option for a handful of posts (being even prime minister at one point, and naval minister). so he needs at least a couple ministerial avatars as well.

I think that's all from Hara.

 

[Phoenix Dace]

First, about Hara - I agree that Hara Tameichi was an outstanding destroyer captain, but as that's all he was, I'm disinclined to reduce the skill levels of most of Japan's best admirals just because of what he's written. I'm willing to listen to, say, quotes about what he says about them, but this is something that should be taken slowly, for both historical and gameplay balance reasons.


gunboat: Yes, much of our work is included in the Armageddon 1.1 patch. However, there is also some work we have done since then that is definitely worth checking out, such as our work on the German file.



In other news, I'm back on my own computer, which is back from the store with some fixed-up RAM. This means I can now work on this again. Since my priority is to get Germany 1.1 released, you might expect that today or tomorrow.

 

[Myth]

well, he mentioned an incident that was typical of the Japanese High Command. they husbanded their heavy cruisers for a year waiting for a "decisive" opportunity to use them (even as the American fleet was just prowling around the solomons winning everywhere) as they fed in their destroyers and light cruisers into the struggle piecemeal and then...what? an american bomber raid comes and wipes out all the ships in harbor, only hara's single destroyer escapes the carnage unscathed (and indeed, inflicting a few casualties on the americans). the japanese heavy cruiser fleet, along with its screens, is wiped out largely without any sort of use being gained from it at all. this shows japanese negligence on a several levels, including at their fundamental strategy.

now, from a gameplay perspective, let's look at the math. its a total of 6/6 removed, which amounts to a grand naval total of +12% more beginning and +12% more max possible combat efficiency. modding Yonai up to be a 3/6 like Yamamoto from a 2/4 already gives a +2%/+4%, and the four new admirals together give a +14%/+40% disregarding any traits. of these two traits, two are difficult to measure (spotter, blockade runner) but there are also two new superior tacticians, each of whom is worth an additional +10% combat efficiency. Japan looses a grand total of 12/12 combat/max possible combat efficiency but gains more than 36/44 (taking into consideration blockade runner and spotter).

 

[Phoenix Dace]

I'm going to add the new admirals as Hara calls them. What I'm referring to about gameplay balance is actually the number of skill 4 or 5 admirals Japan has. Here, I'll demonstrate.

The problem with gameplay balance for Japan is that they have to take on both the British and the Americans. It can be generally agreed on that the war in the Pacific is entirely dependent on carrier warfare, and it can be generally agreed that an admiral of skill 4 or above is necessary to command a carrier fleet in order to keep it from close engagement with any old fleet. Now...


The Americans have 2 skill 5 and 3 skill 4 (starting) admirals, all available by 1940.

The British have 3 skill 5 and 8 skill 4 (starting) admirals, with all but two skill 4 available by 1940.

The Japanese (currently) have 2 skill 5 and 5 skill 4 admirals, with all available by 1941. Of these, only four of them achieve Admiral rank by 1941 or earlier, making only four of them (theoretically) capable of commanding full-sized CTFs without skill loss.

Which breaks it down like this.

The Americans, at the start of the war in 1941, have five capable carrier admirals. The British, at the same time, have nine - by 1941 the war in the Atlantic is most likely over, and any number of these admirals and British fleets can be dispatched to the East.

Facing off against fourteen carrier-capable enemy admirals serving two separate nations both with better industrial capacity than Japan, the Japanese currently have seven carrier-capable commanders, of which three are rendered less effective because their rank is Vice-Admiral or lower.



Now, if we reduce skill levels as you put in your post above:

The Japanese lose Yamamoto I. and Nagano, both of whom are dropped to skill 3. They also lose Ozawa's skill 5.

This leaves them with zero skill 5 admirals and only 5 skill 4 leaders, of which three (Mikawa, Tanaka and Fukudome) are still below admiral rank.


Not to mention the complete lack of any skill 5 leaders means that there would be a possible five fleets which could be deployed against the Japanese that would, in all probability, get to whatever their optimal range was no matter what (skill has a much larger effect on battle range than positioning and doctrine does). In essence, the Allies could defeat the Japanese with only battleships because they could be running five battleship fleets through Japanese waters that the Japanese could not stop because they had no skill 5 leaders that could keep carriers out of battleship range.

This probably wouldn't happen - but the fact that it could is bad enough. And against the AI, this may not be as big a problem, but we have to cater to everyone, and removing that many of Japan's most skilled admirals would make them essentially impotent in multiplayer against any kind of skilled USA or UK opponent.



This is the game balance issue I mentioned.

 

[Gormadoc]

USS Admirals

Dont know if you already has looked into this matter. Sorry just to many pages of posts. o

Perhaps add the following US Navy commander. He Led wolfpack consisting of thre subs in 1944 and 1945. Where only promoted to rear admiral in 1956 though. So perhaps his startdate should be 1956.

Roy S. Benson, http://www.applmath.com/csds50/pdfs/RADMRoyStanleyBenson.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_S._Benson

startdate 1944, trait Seawolf.

The leader named Benson already in US leader file should have his endate moved to 1953 instead of 1945 i think. He retired in 1953 from the Navy. If the leader is referring to Vice Admiral Glen Benson Davis, that is. The picture used for this leader is suspiciously looking like Admiral William S. Benson who Retired from US navy in 1919 & died in 1932.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/gbdavis.htm

Hope you find this usefull.

Edit: the rank of the Benson in leader file is Admiral in 1930. Which dosnt fit with any Benson i can find info on.

 

[Gaarq]

CZE typos

i would suggest some spelling corrections in Czechoslovakia files.
i have implemented these correction into my CIP.

rule no. 1 = let us forgot about any diacritics in Czech and Slovak names
rule no. 2 = let us use non-modified, ie. original names

ministers:
Edouard Benes > Edvard Benes (Edvard Beneš)
Jan Prhcla > Jan Prchala
Joseph Jezek > Josef Jezek (Josef Ježek)
Emilé Dobricek > Emil Dobricek (Emil Dobříček)
Andrei Vlasov > Andrej Vlasov

tech teams:
Joseph Frantisek > Josef Frantisek

by the others just get rid of any diacritics.

and in army names, pls, get rid of the terrible Czechoslovák Army. either english (Czechoslovak Army) or Czech (Ceskoslovenska armada), but not hybrids

 

[Phoenix Dace]

Whenever we do Czechoslovakia, I'll be sure to add your changes. Thanks.

Gormadoc, we haven't discussed American admirals yet at all. And from your information, it definitely looks like the benson in the file should be removed and replaced by the one you've mentioned, which will be done whenever we do America. Good work.


I've got to get around to finishing Germany 1.1. I've really got to.

 

[Phoenix Dace]

I realized I don't have the inspiration to give you guys a 1.1 release incorporating von_Ysselstein's leaders, but also that I had released a flawed product in Germany 1.0a - the three reversed generals was something stupid that I should've caught.

Germany 1.0b is out. Contains the bugfix and dec152000's SW leaders. Really, this is more like '1.1 part 1', but I'd rather call this 1.0b and the real 1.1 release 1.1.

 

[Myth]

from Panzers on the Eastern Front, which was compiled and edited by Peter Tsouras, and The 900 Days (which I mentioned earlier) I've got some more German leaders. now I've only got (a hell of a long list of) Soviet leaders to go through and I'll have caught up.

von Boetticher - new leader, army. starts a mj gen, lt gen '40. 2/5 FB, being an artillery officer.
Heusinger - new leader, army. mj gen in '43, 2/5. was temporary chief of staff in '44, between Zeitzler and Guderian--possible new entry? given his later experience in the mapping department, if he is added a a '44 CoS then maybe +10% speed to represent knowing the maps well?
Mueller-Hilderbrand - new, army. mj gen '42. 1/5
Foertsch H. - new, army. mj gen '43 (I'm assuming), lt gen '44. 1/5
Foertsch F. - new, army. H's brother, mj gen '45. 1/5

I have pictures for all but M-H. hopefully soon I'll do the Soviet leaders (there a list of a billion or so, give or take a few million). since I'm currently reading up on the siege of budapest, I'll have more input on German, Soviet and Hungarian leaders soon enough too, hopefully.

 

[Graf Koks]

I hope you forgive me for not reading all 18 pages (and you seem to busy with leaders anyway) but have you thought about going through the minister files to eliminate some oddities like Vice Admiral Heinrich Hanke being Chief of the Navy of Mengkukuo(!) :rofl: or removing very dead people like Tikhon, Kolchak or Georgi Gapon?

 

[kunadam]

rule no. 1 = let us forgot about any diacritics in Czech and Slovak names

Is there a way to add those non-English letters to the names. Actually it would feel more right to have really proper eastern-European names. I have see some non-Standard letters in the files with some 2 symbol combination.