Hey LM+, once the AAR is finished, how bout a quick recap of the 7 long years that changed the place of Brazil in the world? A single update with the most memorable moments of the AAR.
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LM+: - Nineteen forty-six will be remembered as the year the war came home to Hitler...- This past year has been decisive for the industrial war...- Just as with industry, so with forces in the field: For the first time this war, the Allies are incontestably superior on land, at sea, and in the air.
magnificent ! !
GeneralHannibal: ...I agree, the Soviets should definitely re-enter the war as otherwise they may never get their land back.
i must beg to differ with you on this. the Soviets don't deserve any of that land. those people deserve to be free! !
magnificent ! !
GeneralHannibal: ...I agree, the Soviets should definitely re-enter the war as otherwise they may never get their land back.
i must beg to differ with you on this. the Soviets don't deserve any of that land. those people deserve to be free! !
Actually, what I'd be really grateful for is if someone with the Acrobat program made a file with the full AAR, the same as has been done in a few other cases.ju87 said:
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I haven't done any playing this weekend - which is probably just as well since I have some questions to ask.
Normally, I prefer to discuss what to do with victory after the bird is safely in hand. However, the many suggestions on what to do with Europe afterwards and how to handle the Soviets do suggest that it is time to talk about some things.
In HSR, the German surrender events fire after Paris, Berlin, and most of Germany is controlled by someone else (either the Allies or the Soviets). However, there are at least two problems: Firstly, I don't think a German surrender does anything for Hungary, Finland, Romania, Bulgaria, and whoever else might be in the Axis; they all continue to fight (I think this is true). Secondly, the event assumes that the Soviet Union is still actively in the war and deserves some of the fruits of victory. The question is therefore how to modify the events so that the end-game plays out as plausibly and as interestingly as possible.
It's hard to pollify such a complex issue, but let me have a stab at it:
Question #1: How to handle the surrender of the Axis?
Option A: Accept the German surrender. Conquer all of the Axis minor hold-outs by hand and only then remake the map of eastern Europe.
Option B: Accept the German surrender. Assume the negotiated surrender of all other Axis with very roughly pre-war borders (cancellation of all their gains but no added penalties).
Option C: Refuse all surrenders and conquer everything by hand.
Option D: (fill in blank here)
Question #2: What to do with Russia and the Soviet Union-that-was?
Option A: Conquer the place, with or without RUS boosts to make things more interesting. This option is off the table. Russia's suffered enough and I absolutely refuse to conduct another invasion. This leaves us with...
Option B: Divvy up the lands of the former Soviet Union using roughly modern borders, with the exception that Poland, Czechoslovakia, Finland, and Romania will keep what they had pre-war.
Option C: Give everything (or almost everything - mention any exceptions) to the Soviet Union.
Option D: (fill in blank here)
i say set up belarus, caucasian states, baltics and ukraine (maybe enlarged poland) and then a weak russian state that may be invaded by soviet union if you carried on the game
I would say perhaps edit the surrender event to fire when if and when you have control of, say, Bucharest, Warsaw, and Prague. In effect that means taking out the minors in addition, but keeps it within the event profile, and means that all of Germany would be effectively conquered. With Germany existing only entirely in occupied land, then the rest could follow.
As for the rest - I would agree with the setting up of the Baltics and Ukraine, and with either an expanded Poland or Belorussia. Perhaps also the Caucaus states go free. The rest essentially goes to the Russian Soviet Republic - making the USSR essentially just Soviet Russia + the Central Asian republics. Call the other events nationalist revolutions or something. Eastern and Central Europe otherwise goes back to pre-war, under Allied tutelage.
Russia should bear some cost for losing so thoroughly, and having the European non-Russian republics break free seems a sensible way of doing that.
As for the rest - I would agree with the setting up of the Baltics and Ukraine, and with either an expanded Poland or Belorussia. Perhaps also the Caucaus states go free. The rest essentially goes to the Russian Soviet Republic - making the USSR essentially just Soviet Russia + the Central Asian republics. Call the other events nationalist revolutions or something. Eastern and Central Europe otherwise goes back to pre-war, under Allied tutelage.
Russia should bear some cost for losing so thoroughly, and having the European non-Russian republics break free seems a sensible way of doing that.
Question 1:
I'd go with option B, although I think a pro-UN coup and/or unconditional surrender should be required for the axis minors. After watching what has happened to Italy it's hard to imagine any would offer much resistance.
Question 2:
Historically the Allies were extremely distrustful of the Soviets, so it seems highly unlikely to me that they would restore territory to them. Instead I'd say liberate all the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, and establish a pro-western government in occupied Russia. Of course if the Soviets were to seize the moment and declare war on Germany before the end, they might succeed in taking back some of their territory.
I'd go with option B, although I think a pro-UN coup and/or unconditional surrender should be required for the axis minors. After watching what has happened to Italy it's hard to imagine any would offer much resistance.
Question 2:
Historically the Allies were extremely distrustful of the Soviets, so it seems highly unlikely to me that they would restore territory to them. Instead I'd say liberate all the Baltic states, Poland, Ukraine, and establish a pro-western government in occupied Russia. Of course if the Soviets were to seize the moment and declare war on Germany before the end, they might succeed in taking back some of their territory.
As you well know LM+, I have been here since week one, rushing to my CP every few days to see your achievements; let me just say, I have been completely amazed at this wonderful, wonderful AAR. Great work.
(Best AAR Ever)
(Best AAR Ever)
Question 1
Option B
Question 2
You should give Bessarabia to Romania, Western Belarus to Poland, Eastern Karelia+lost territory to Finland, Liberate the Baltic states, Caucasus nations, and Ukraine, and establish a Democratic Russian republic on the rest of the former soviet territory.
Option B
Question 2
You should give Bessarabia to Romania, Western Belarus to Poland, Eastern Karelia+lost territory to Finland, Liberate the Baltic states, Caucasus nations, and Ukraine, and establish a Democratic Russian republic on the rest of the former soviet territory.
First time I'm acctually around for a poll here.
On question 1. I think it would be unlikley that any of the minors would continue the fighting without Germany. Hungary, Bulgaria and Rumania switched side historically before Germany was even gone, when thier own land was threatend and the axis could not win anymore. Finland did only join the axis to regain what Soviet took from them and would not fight on against the allies if they where to keep thier land. They where also fairly Democratic and is now isolated form any other axis minor and would be an easy pray. So option B should be my answer.
On question 2. Of course Soviet should not have anything. You should release free nations in all land you can take controll of. If you think you have time enough and want to you could also attack the Soviets when the axis are done with, or naturally if they DoW the free Russia. So there is B too. I'm not entierly sure about if Poland should have all thier old land, much of it was not inhabited by poles. Giveing the border provinces to a free Ukraine and Belarus would not be entierly wrong in my eyes.
On question 1. I think it would be unlikley that any of the minors would continue the fighting without Germany. Hungary, Bulgaria and Rumania switched side historically before Germany was even gone, when thier own land was threatend and the axis could not win anymore. Finland did only join the axis to regain what Soviet took from them and would not fight on against the allies if they where to keep thier land. They where also fairly Democratic and is now isolated form any other axis minor and would be an easy pray. So option B should be my answer.
On question 2. Of course Soviet should not have anything. You should release free nations in all land you can take controll of. If you think you have time enough and want to you could also attack the Soviets when the axis are done with, or naturally if they DoW the free Russia. So there is B too. I'm not entierly sure about if Poland should have all thier old land, much of it was not inhabited by poles. Giveing the border provinces to a free Ukraine and Belarus would not be entierly wrong in my eyes.
1) Have the Soviet Union declare war on Germany
2) Have Finland sign a separate peace treaty with you as soon as Germany falls.
3) Make it a mad dash between you and the Soviets to see how much land you get and liberate from the faltering Germans. If you can make it to Moscow before they do, liberate a democratic Russia.
4) Have the minors in Eastern Europe put up some resistance (they did, after all, help destroy a superpower and probably think quite highly of themselves this time around).
2) Have Finland sign a separate peace treaty with you as soon as Germany falls.
3) Make it a mad dash between you and the Soviets to see how much land you get and liberate from the faltering Germans. If you can make it to Moscow before they do, liberate a democratic Russia.
4) Have the minors in Eastern Europe put up some resistance (they did, after all, help destroy a superpower and probably think quite highly of themselves this time around).
Before I vote let me say 1 thing.
This AAR is an inspiration and is by far the best example for a new AAR writer, if someone asks for Advice on how to make a good AAR I will say read this AAR. Can't wait for Conclusion/Next AAR.
Now I say Option B
This AAR is an inspiration and is by far the best example for a new AAR writer, if someone asks for Advice on how to make a good AAR I will say read this AAR. Can't wait for Conclusion/Next AAR.
Now I say Option B
In all my praising, I forgot to vote
Question #1:
Option B
Question #2:
Option B
Question #1:
Option B
Question #2:
Option B
Option D for #1
Have them surrender before Germany dies using the surrender events except make them puppets of the US instead of the SU.
Option B for #1 if Soviets don't DOW Germany, if they do, then make it the SU get all of the modern Russia area and make it a race for the rest, or just liberate what amount of Russia you can.
Have them surrender before Germany dies using the surrender events except make them puppets of the US instead of the SU.
Option B for #1 if Soviets don't DOW Germany, if they do, then make it the SU get all of the modern Russia area and make it a race for the rest, or just liberate what amount of Russia you can.
Question 1 - B
Question 2 - B
Both are a lot more plausible than the alternatives. If you really had time I suppose there should be some chance of a revenge strike by the Soviets against Germany but the conditions for it would be pretty complex...
Question 2 - B
Both are a lot more plausible than the alternatives. If you really had time I suppose there should be some chance of a revenge strike by the Soviets against Germany but the conditions for it would be pretty complex...
1: B.
2: C. The soviets must have their land back or they will be very angry =(
2: C. The soviets must have their land back or they will be very angry =(
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Yeah, i'd say release all the minor soviet countries and even give finland karelia and the peninsular .
Yeah, reduce germany, keep the minors fighting but have them surrender as soon as you march the tiniest bit in, but otherwise redraw the borders of europe so conflicts will never happen again, give countries back their ethnical borders!
.Yeah, reduce germany, keep the minors fighting but have them surrender as soon as you march the tiniest bit in, but otherwise redraw the borders of europe so conflicts will never happen again, give countries back their ethnical borders!
I think that the Soviets would probably break their peace with Germany right about now and reenter the war. This is dependent upon how well defended the Russo-German border at the Urals is now (I think it would be excusable to turn off fog of war and check). If it looks like the Soviets have a good chance of retaking their land, I think you should make them declare war on Germany and rejoin the allies.
As for Germany's surrender, I think it should fire when all of the important capitals (Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Bucharest, Warsaw, Budapest, St. Petersburg, and Moscow) are in allied hands. I would say that if the Soviets manage to conquer Moscow, they should at least regain a reduced version of European Russia (perhaps minus Belarus, the Baltic states, Ukraine, and the Caucuses). If they make it to St. Petersburg, I would let them retake all of prewar Soviet territory, and so on.
In this case, Brazil's goal is to gain as much territory as it can before the Russians do. Depending on their relations with the Russians, it might consider creating a Russian Republic out of the conquered areas. I don't know about this, though.
As for Germany's surrender, I think it should fire when all of the important capitals (Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin, Bucharest, Warsaw, Budapest, St. Petersburg, and Moscow) are in allied hands. I would say that if the Soviets manage to conquer Moscow, they should at least regain a reduced version of European Russia (perhaps minus Belarus, the Baltic states, Ukraine, and the Caucuses). If they make it to St. Petersburg, I would let them retake all of prewar Soviet territory, and so on.
In this case, Brazil's goal is to gain as much territory as it can before the Russians do. Depending on their relations with the Russians, it might consider creating a Russian Republic out of the conquered areas. I don't know about this, though.
On question #1 I'm inclined to go with option C, especially if the surrender event gives anything to the Soviets. After helping start this war and then allowing their resources to be conquered for Nazi use, they deserve NOTHING.LM+ said:
Question #2 I'm in favor of option B, especially if there is a way to liberate Russia without the Siberian lands. Of course you will be setting the world up for a nasty Cold War, even with a rump SU.
Question #1: A. It would make for an interesting end the Allies and the Soviets rushing through the Axis to take what they could, while the Nazis try desperatly to hold on to what they had. Of course, with that, I'd advise after conquering Berlin giving Germany 100% Dissent to make the many national revolts that would happen afterwards in German-Occupied territories, historical. Minor Axis should switch sides when they begin being attacked by an Allied/Soviet Force.
Question #2: Connected with 1. Soviets declare war on Germany and go mopping up the Germans through Russia, trying to get as much land as possible from the Nazis.
Question #2: Connected with 1. Soviets declare war on Germany and go mopping up the Germans through Russia, trying to get as much land as possible from the Nazis.
A Soviet landgrab seems sensible. That is after all what they did with Japan. Also, I suggest Germany should surrender only when all of Germany proper (including East Prussia) is taken. The minor Axis countries should be given an event to either surrender or continue fighting. Finland should have a separate peace event.
And...
AWESOME AAR!
And...
AWESOME AAR!