WeissRaben

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Does that "religion trumps others" mean that my Republic of Prussia will ALWAYS be Nomad, disregarding its being full of universities and swimming in gold, or am I missing something?
 

johnjohansson

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Ok, starting army size is a tougher nut to crack than I thought, especially as I've only had time to scratch the surface.

While I have no concrete multipliers, I agree with Idhrendur that tax and manpower are two big factors, as is military unit cost.

To clarify the tax part, I strongly suspect it's in the form of base tax plus modifiers (e.g. capitals, CoTs, workshops etc., similar to how it's calculated for force limits).

A lot of other things affect starting sizes too but probably only indirectly through altering any of the three above factors. E.g. a full aristoracy slider gives cheaper cavalry and thus more cavalry, steppe horde government gives more manpower and cheaper troops thus a much bigger starting army. Same with those religions that affect taxes and any other factor modifying any of the three, I reckon.

Again, no complete formula in sight, but at least we're getting closer (I think).
 

Idhrendur

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Does that "religion trumps others" mean that my Republic of Prussia will ALWAYS be Nomad, disregarding its being full of universities and swimming in gold, or am I missing something?

Well, it only matter if you switch the the new method. If you do, those immediate categories are just different means of calculating your tech group. The worst you can get is Muslim, and it depends on how much tech you've gained over the CK2 period.
 

Pode

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From 1408. Would it help if I did a release so you can gather your own statistics?
No such thing as too much data. However, looking at your logs and thinking some more, I believe I was too harsh on realms that fell behind the (almost unachieveable) CK2 base rate. These changes to Catholic and Other categories are probably much better:

Category to tech group mapping:
Catholic = western if tech average >= GREEK tech for that year, else eastern
Greek = western if tech average >= Catholic + 1, else eastern if tech >= muslim, else ottoman
Other = western for tech >=Catholic + 0.5, else eastern for tech >= MUSLIM, else ottoman
Muslim = western for tech >= Catholic + 1, else eastern for tech >= catholic + 0.5, else ottoman for tech >= greek, else muslim

Also, I forgot to include our old convention that nomads get the nomad government and the nomad tech group. Dunno If you want to stick to that, but I think it makes sense to keep unconverted Mongols in the tech challenged nomad group
 

Pode

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Does that "religion trumps others" mean that my Republic of Prussia will ALWAYS be Nomad, disregarding its being full of universities and swimming in gold, or am I missing something?
No, sorry, my failure to communicate clearly. Your Prussian Pagans, being pagan, will be judged according to the pagan/ other standards for tech progress: western for tech >= that year's baseline Catholic average tech level + 0.5, else eastern for tech >= muslim baseline, else ottoman

Prussians are Germanic culture group, right? So if you converted to Catholicism, you'd be judged on the same curve as the western catholic world and it'd be a little easier for you to get the western EU3 tech group. But your high tech pagans absolutely can become both western and pagan, I wanted very much to avoid that kind of determinism.
 

WeissRaben

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No, sorry, my failure to communicate clearly. Your Prussian Pagans, being pagan, will be judged according to the pagan/ other standards for tech progress: western for tech >= that year's baseline Catholic average tech level + 0.5, else eastern for tech >= muslim baseline, else ottoman

Prussians are Germanic culture group, right? So if you converted to Catholicism, you'd be judged on the same curve as the western catholic world and it'd be a little easier for you to get the western EU3 tech group. But your high tech pagans absolutely can become both western and pagan, I wanted very much to avoid that kind of determinism.

Pagan Prussian would be Pagan/Baltic, I think - it converts to Old Prussian, if I haven't lost something on the road.
 

Idhrendur

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Pagan Prussian would be Pagan/Baltic, I think - it converts to Old Prussian, if I haven't lost something on the road.

That is correct. CK2 Prussian != EU3 Prussian. Under this method, your Prussians are in the other category no matter what religion they are.
 

Idhrendur

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No such thing as too much data. However, looking at your logs and thinking some more, I believe I was too harsh on realms that fell behind the (almost unachieveable) CK2 base rate. These changes to Catholic and Other categories are probably much better:

Category to tech group mapping:
Catholic = western if tech average >= GREEK tech for that year, else eastern
Greek = western if tech average >= Catholic + 1, else eastern if tech >= muslim, else ottoman
Other = western for tech >=Catholic + 0.5, else eastern for tech >= MUSLIM, else ottoman
Muslim = western for tech >= Catholic + 1, else eastern for tech >= catholic + 0.5, else ottoman for tech >= greek, else muslim

Also, I forgot to include our old convention that nomads get the nomad government and the nomad tech group. Dunno If you want to stick to that, but I think it makes sense to keep unconverted Mongols in the tech challenged nomad group

I made the updates. Here's a release for you to test with: http://sourceforge.net/projects/ck2toeu3/files/Releases/CK2ToEU3-0.6E.zip/download

And I had the nomads thing in already. It just makes sense to me to do it that way.
 

Idhrendur

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Also, someone finish a 1.092 game already to verify nothing broke!

Only kinda kidding.
 

Pode

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On it boss. Will run & convert some 1.092 observe games this week and see how things go
 

CommodoreZ

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If I add the nations of Lotharingia, Rum, Mercia, etc. to my EU3 game, will the converter recognize them and convert accordingly? Or will I have to use another method to add those into my converted games?
 

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If I add the nations of Lotharingia, Rum, Mercia, etc. to my EU3 game, will the converter recognize them and convert accordingly? Or will I have to use another method to add those into my converted games?

You will also need to add appropriate mappings to ck2toeu3's country_mappings.txt.
 

niallmcfc

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Are you planning something similar to the eu3 -> vicky 2 country mappings? Where there was another mod that added a load of EU3 countries to Vicky 2 and made a better conversion? I appreciate it's a large effort due to all the counties etc., but perhaps it could be streamlined by only adding reasonable independencies- duchies and above. I'd be willing to help if that's the case.

EDIT: On a quick count, I make it 408 duchy and above titles in CK2, not as ridiculous as I first thought, and some of those will already be in.
 

Idhrendur

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Are you planning something similar to the eu3 -> vicky 2 country mappings? Where there was another mod that added a load of EU3 countries to Vicky 2 and made a better conversion? I appreciate it's a large effort due to all the counties etc., but perhaps it could be streamlined by only adding reasonable independencies- duchies and above. I'd be willing to help if that's the case.

EDIT: On a quick count, I make it 408 duchy and above titles in CK2, not as ridiculous as I first thought, and some of those will already be in.

I've actually started work on some code that would create appropriate nations for EU3 for all unmapped CK2 nations. Because adding 408 by hand would be a pain, and that many extra tags would probably slow EU3 down.

However, I still think it would work well to add all the Empire and Kingdom titles to EU3, including appropriate decisions to form the nations. If you want to develop something of the sort, that would be amazing. Give me your Sourceforge username and I'll give you access to the repository.
 

niallmcfc

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I've actually started work on some code that would create appropriate nations for EU3 for all unmapped CK2 nations. Because adding 408 by hand would be a pain, and that many extra tags would probably slow EU3 down.

However, I still think it would work well to add all the Empire and Kingdom titles to EU3, including appropriate decisions to form the nations. If you want to develop something of the sort, that would be amazing. Give me your Sourceforge username and I'll give you access to the repository.

Sure, sounds good. Admittedly, never used sourceforge before- username's niallmcfc. For the countries, would you consider it worth adding history files and a decision to form the HRE? Also, what are your plans for things like the Empire of Rus- would they become Russia off the bat?
 
Last edited:

Pode

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Also, someone finish a 1.092 game already to verify nothing broke!

Only kinda kidding.
Well, just ran an observer game from 1066 to 1399. Learning score based conversion seems to have worked, but something went oddly with the cultural tech conversion. I got this:
13-03-30 21:03:41: Converting tech.
13-03-30 21:03:41: CatholicTech: 3.151163
13-03-30 21:03:41: greekTech: 3.313953
13-03-30 21:03:41: muslimTech: 2.869767
13-03-30 21:03:41: otherTech: 2.151163
13-03-30 21:03:41: ,BYZ,89,591,725,538,231,471,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.000000,western

Byz did well, stretching from Austria to Iraq, but a tech level of 89* 10^60th is a bit much. Definitely enough to promote them into western instead of eastern though :)
 

Idhrendur

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Sure, sounds good. Admittedly, never used sourceforge before- username's niallmcfc. For the countries, would you consider it worth adding history files and a decision to form the HRE? Also, what are your plans for things like the Empire of Rus- would they become Russia off the bat?

I've got some instructions at the start of this thread for interacting with the repository (let me know if they're not clear enough). As for titles where Kingdom and Country overlap (Russia, France, maybe more I haven't noticed), I'm not sure what should be done with those. If no-one else on the thread pipes in with ideas, I'll just leave it to you.
 

Idhrendur

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Well, just ran an observer game from 1066 to 1399. Learning score based conversion seems to have worked, but something went oddly with the cultural tech conversion. I got this:
13-03-30 21:03:41: Converting tech.
13-03-30 21:03:41: CatholicTech: 3.151163
13-03-30 21:03:41: greekTech: 3.313953
13-03-30 21:03:41: muslimTech: 2.869767
13-03-30 21:03:41: otherTech: 2.151163
13-03-30 21:03:41: ,BYZ,89,591,725,538,231,471,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.000000,western

Byz did well, stretching from Austria to Iraq, but a tech level of 89* 10^60th is a bit much. Definitely enough to promote them into western instead of eastern though :)

Yeah, that seems a bit off. Is it just 1.092 saves that do that? I see no obvious algorithmic issues…
 

Pode

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Yeah, that seems a bit off. Is it just 1.092 saves that do that? I see no obvious algorithmic issues…
Nope. Don't have a lot of 1.091 saves, but the starting 1066 one gave a CTD in the converter due to tech scores going too high. Log snippet:
13-03-31 12:25:54: Converting tech.
13-03-31 12:25:54: CatholicTech: 1.000000
13-03-31 12:25:54: greekTech: 2.166667
13-03-31 12:25:54: muslimTech: 2.066667
13-03-31 12:25:54: otherTech: 0.000000
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,BYZ,1.886398,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,ENG,0.937500,eastern
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,PAP,0.956250,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,SWE,0.595313,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,DAN,587284333449475390000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000,western
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,POL,0.961806,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,HUN,0.856410,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,FRA,0.934211,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,ARA,1.491667,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,CAS,1.523958,western
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,MAM,2.006028,western
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,SCO,652615536004083220000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000,western
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,NOR,0.724074,ottoman
13-03-31 12:25:54: ,CRO,8257883663175612000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000,western

Update: Also get CTDs during tech conversion for a 1.09 and a 1.08 save
 
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