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Idhrendur

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Yes, mostly due to Visual C++'s rather nice debugger. Not that he debugger is necessary, I could have just logged everything, but the debugger gets me faster results.
 

Idhrendur

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So will this produce a working save now? It says in the OP that it won't but I have seen people with converted saves, so I assume it will.

At a guess, the working saves come from the other converter. While the saves from the latest release will load, all nations will have no government, no primary culture, no religion, and tech will work in broken ways. The next release would be the first that I would consider playable.
 

Idhrendur

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How will a holy roman republic or theocracy be handled?

Please tell me that's it's curiosity driving you to ask, not something you've seen. I'd prefer to handle those by completely ignoring the possibility.

Though maybe I'll try some experiments later to see how well EU3 handles republic or theocratic emperors.
 

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Please tell me that's it's curiosity driving you to ask, not something you've seen. I'd prefer to handle those by completely ignoring the possibility.

Though maybe I'll try some experiments later to see how well EU3 handles republic or theocratic emperors.
It's something I've seen.

I tried throwing the save through the other converter. The result was that the emperor got immediately replaced after I unpaused.
 

Idhrendur

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Phew, I finally got the converter estimating production income. It's not quite accurate enough, but it's in the right ballpark.

I'm really hoping it's related to the inaccuracies in supply and demand for goods, because otherwise I've no clue what the cause is. Of course, I've no clue on the supply and demand inaccuracies, but I'm a little closer to knowing.
 

Idhrendur

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Unless I'm mistaken, we've not yet figured out the initial manpower pool. Anyone have a clue how EU3 generates that one?
 

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Unless I'm mistaken, we've not yet figured out the initial manpower pool. Anyone have a clue how EU3 generates that one?

Do you mean the ammount of manpower you start the game with, which is distinct from the maximum possible?

A brief look at western Europe shows that the starting GC manpower is variously between about 80% and 90% of the manpower cap. A common value appears to be 85%.

The cap is defined as twice the total of your yearly manpower gain, which is based on the manpower values of your provinces: http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Manpower
 

Idhrendur

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Do you mean the ammount of manpower you start the game with, which is distinct from the maximum possible?

A brief look at western Europe shows that the starting GC manpower is variously between about 80% and 90% of the manpower cap. A common value appears to be 85%.

The cap is defined as twice the total of your yearly manpower gain, which is based on the manpower values of your provinces: http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Manpower

Yeah, I just need the starting value. The cap figures itself out. Any notion of what defines the variation in the starting value?

Also, starting money. What's the rule there? The variation between nations is all over the map.
 

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Yeah, I just need the starting value. The cap figures itself out. Any notion of what defines the variation in the starting value?

Also, starting money. What's the rule there? The variation between nations is all over the map.

I figured you'd need to calculate the cap in order to calculate the starting manpower. :p

For both starting manpower and money, there doesn't seem to be a rule that they used to determine the variation. It would not surprise me if they were using historical data. Since we're writing a converter, we should too.

The starting manpower probably should be based simply on the number of levies that could be raised by the player. The starting money should be based, I would have thought, on the money the Crown has.
 

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The starting money should be based, I would have thought, on the money the Crown has.

Problem with this is some nations like the Papacy and the Empires begin with tens of thousands, if not millions in the treasury at the end of the game. I think the Pope actually gets all the money when a character pays for indulgences and the like. The Republics would also start out incredibly wealthy, though this is perhaps more realistic and would help give them an early boost to make up for how badly they tend to do in CK2.
 

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Problem with this is some nations like the Papacy and the Empires begin with tens of thousands, if not millions in the treasury at the end of the game. I think the Pope actually gets all the money when a character pays for indulgences and the like. The Republics would also start out incredibly wealthy, though this is perhaps more realistic and would help give them an early boost to make up for how badly they tend to do in CK2.

I don't personally see that this is a problem. If you earned money in CK2, then you ought to have it in EU3. Even in the case of the pope, well so what? Should not the papacy be wealthy to the degree it was in your CK2 game?
 

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This is a serious question:

What happens if I am the pope? In my current CK2 game, I am the Russian tsar. After assassinating both the pope and the patriarch, I inherited the papacy + pentarchy, and I am also sunni... so, how are you going to handle that?
 

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I don't personally see that this is a problem. If you earned money in CK2, then you ought to have it in EU3. Even in the case of the pope, well so what? Should not the papacy be wealthy to the degree it was in your CK2 game?

Starting Money : 13 months total income, plus a % based on their current cash reserves. This percentage could be done on a income scoring;
10,000+ : +25%
8,000 : +20%
6,000 : +15%
4,000 : +10%
2,000 : +5%
1,000 : +2.5%
500 : +1.25%
0 : +0%
etc

The advantage of doing this on a percentile basis, is that nations with large cash reserves still get a boost (the numbers of course can be tweaked), but without entirely unbalancing the economic system in EU3 when just one or two nations have millions while the rest have hundreds.
 

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This is a serious question:

What happens if I am the pope? In my current CK2 game, I am the Russian tsar. After assassinating both the pope and the patriarch, I inherited the papacy + pentarchy, and I am also sunni... so, how are you going to handle that?

That is the most screwy situation I think I've yet heard about.

It should work out that the Papal States convert with your character as leader, and then your primary title should convert with everything else. I'd recommend just converting it and seeing what happens.

I don't think EU3 allows PUs for Theocracies, so that'll be the final result even after we implement PUs.
 

Idhrendur

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For the starting money issue, I have two concerns.

First of all, I'd like to start ROTW nations with the same money they'd have if you started a game at that date and selected that nation. Or at least as close as we can get to that with the items we have implemented (I'm within 25% for income it seems, but nothing that causes expenses is converted at the moment. Well, colonies would probably convert correctly, I've not looked into that).

Then, I'd like to use M0rdred's idea for converted nations. Except instead of 13 month's income, I'd like to use the ROTW nation rule, whatever it may be. I'm just at a complete loss as to what it is.
 

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This is a serious question:

What happens if I am the pope? In my current CK2 game, I am the Russian tsar. After assassinating both the pope and the patriarch, I inherited the papacy + pentarchy, and I am also sunni... so, how are you going to handle that?

Also, the Pentarchy? Are you running a mod? In all my Byz games, I've had a Patriarch under me, but never ever seen anything relating to the Pentarchy.
 

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SOI vanilla.

Muslim's Turkish rule works wonder. Turkish rule = son with most land inherits everything OR vassal with biggest dukedoms in the kingdom inherits everything in case ruler does not have any son. When I am the tsar - emperor tier - I go on and vassalize the pope/patriarch via invasion CB (make sure pope wins a crusade so he owns some thing of a country size; only then you can invade him. for patriarch, invade byzantium, greece). After having both as my vassal, I gave pope/patriarch one of my kingdom titles. The twist here is only I have a duke title in that kingdom, the rest are count. As the result, the pope/patriarch will only have the title, not the lands. For pope, the title will become his secondary title - that's fine. I went ahead and assasinate him. And... I inherit his secondary title (Turkish rule, remember?) as well as the Papacy. Rinse and repeat with the patriarch.

So you meant the country in EU3 will be solely russia? Sweet!

Another question: HRE in my game... the same game... turns republic, no big deal, right? Then, super Bohemia and everyone else revolted - no big deal, right? Years later, Bohimia absorbs everyone else into its kingdom and become HRE-size Bohemia, no big deal, right? Bohemia went on and usurb the HRE title from the dodge.... So, how's the converter going to deal with that? In my reasoning, HRE now should be converted into 1 entity in EU3, right? (Because I'd really love to play as HRE and beat the Russian monster I created).
 

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SOI vanilla.

Muslim's Turkish rule works wonder. Turkish rule = son with most land inherits everything OR vassal with biggest dukedoms in the kingdom inherits everything in case ruler does not have any son. When I am the tsar - emperor tier - I go on and vassalize the pope/patriarch via invasion CB (make sure pope wins a crusade so he owns some thing of a country size; only then you can invade him. for patriarch, invade byzantium, greece). After having both as my vassal, I gave pope/patriarch one of my kingdom titles. The twist here is only I have a duke title in that kingdom, the rest are count. As the result, the pope/patriarch will only have the title, not the lands. For pope, the title will become his secondary title - that's fine. I went ahead and assasinate him. And... I inherit his secondary title (Turkish rule, remember?) as well as the Papacy. Rinse and repeat with the patriarch.

So you meant the country in EU3 will be solely russia? Sweet!

Another question: HRE in my game... the same game... turns republic, no big deal, right? Then, super Bohemia and everyone else revolted - no big deal, right? Years later, Bohimia absorbs everyone else into its kingdom and become HRE-size Bohemia, no big deal, right? Bohemia went on and usurb the HRE title from the dodge.... So, how's the converter going to deal with that? In my reasoning, HRE now should be converted into 1 entity in EU3, right? (Because I'd really love to play as HRE and beat the Russian monster I created).

Interesting and exploitive. Well, the Patriarch and Papacy titles are empire level, so would get split off, but should have no land or sub-vassals after that trick, and would be removed.

As for the HRE, it depends exactly how Bohemia absorbed everything. At a guess, the HRE would exist, but the sub-states would mostly be a tangle of PUs with Bohemia as the senior member.