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Idhrendur

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Alrighty, so I took the current version of this for a whirl, using my on-going Baduspanid Empire (Persia) game as a test run. Interesting results:

Baduspanid Empire and Europe in CKII:

...


Baduspanid Empire and Europe (and the rest of the world) in EUIII:

...

Things I noticed:

First of all, I love your observation and analysis. Please stick around, we always need more smart people helping with ideas, lest you be left with just my ones.

[*]Everyone is a techless tribal despot.
Yep, that's just a default for now. It'll be resolved in the next version (0.5). There was a post just recently that also includes how we'll do governments. It's all linked in the OP.

[*]Scotland, Finland, and Norway are all held by the same King in CKII, but the conversion seems to have made him three men rather than put any in a PU.

That'll be handled in version 0.6, with all the diplomacy stuff.

[*]Some countries are incredibly weirdly placed, like Kurland and Pskov as Muslim African states.

There's a section in the FAQ about it, and we've some zany ideas with the converter that may resolve it.

[*]Maybe I just didn't notice, but the lack of non-independent cores makes me sad.

When we fix the blobification, that should be one of the possible results (we're going to have to reopen that discussion sometime soon).

[*]Poor Russian Teutons got cut in half with Denmark taking precedence... but smaller county count in EUIII Europe will do that.
They at least got the cores, right? Also, the province mappings really need some review. care to look into it a bit?

[*]Balance is going to be terrifying, as if this game were to be started as it is both myself and France are already currently super-scary empires. It'll get scarier in a few months when England wins their current war for the French crown. :eek:
Hopefully that will be a bit resolved when we deal with blobification.

[*]Interestingly, the Ilkhanate has been pushed off my map in CKII, but they still have a ruler and it acts as though they still exist, just out east somewhere.

Yeah, I need to deal with all the territory-less titles. Many of them get considered for mapping to EU3 tags, which doesn't make much sense. Though there's some half-formed ideas in my head about de-jure terrritory and cores that I need to make into full ideas and share here first.

[*]Don't know what the plan is regarding heresies, but I did a sad face when my Persians all got turned back into Sunni. We fought for the new faith of Zikri, my ficitonal version in my head some zany combination of Islam and Zoroastrianism (which my first Zikri ruler was a follower of for much of his life).

Use the converter mod. It'll turn that sad face into a happy one.

[*]Not related to the converter, but lordy I hate that Persia and the Golden Horde are almost identical colors.
There's only one solution: destroy them completely. Or induce Russia to do so.


I figure some of those are known issues, and I apologize for re-stating them. But from what I have read in-thread, and just some other general thoughts, here's my thought process:

[*]Primary culture should be based on the capital's culture. This is how EU:III tends to handle it, so it should be here.

An interesting thought. However, I like that one of our sample saves has Franks ruling a completely Greek Latin Empire (well, it gets mapped to Byzantium). The difficulty of that situation should come across. But overall it will tend to work out that way. In fact, I'll do a post about that soon, since I've implemented this already. Of course, if it turns out to work poorly, it can be changed.

[*]Accepted cultures should be treated base purely on EU:III's rules. For example, my Persian's would probably be accepting of both Armenians and Greeks at this point, as they're a large portion of our Empire (probably over 5% minimum for keeping it accepted, easily). Not to mention I'm fond of giving them their own rulers, but that's irrelevant. Armenian Emirs just amuse me. :)

Done. Using EU3 base tax and province culture. It seems to work pretty well.

[*]Sometimes when possible, using the Feudal system to break down giant blobs should be possible (if it's possible, that is). Having France start off as fractured duchies like vanilla EU:III might help re-balance things rather than starting off in 1399 with the BBB already at full steam. If not, nothing stopping the player from doing some editting. Heck, you could even use the CKII console to take control of dukes, have em' declare independence, then make their liege surrender.

Yes, we plan to do so (I don't think any of us are fans of the current blobification). I've just been focusing on entirely missing mechanics. And also we entirely disagree about how it should be done. Always makes things interesting.

[*]Population I'd personally like to see remain as it is in EU:III, or at least not diverge too heavily. Just because I made Jämtland the center of my Norse Empire doesn't mean it suddenly exploded in population. A cultural center it may be, but it's also a cold, mountainous place. People live where its easiest to live, not where their rulers decided it'd be awesome to set up shop.

All of that is tweakable in the latest release. There's a whole bunch of options for the details of converting population, base tax, and manpower. Please play with them and inform me what groups of setting work well. Ideally, I'd like to leave the historical/blended/converted option in for each and have the others hard coded to good options. Too many options to end users can be entirely unhelpful, after all.

[*]Similar thoughts on technology. Perhaps a small influence over the defaults, but CKII tech levels should be the defining guideline. Or, perhaps, the difference between the different levels of tech shouldn't be overly dramatic. Maybe the crappiness of Muslim tech groups will help Christianity catch back up in the early years of EU:III, /shrug

We've had some discussions before. I'm planning to go with the existing ideas, but if you've alternate ideas or improvements to the existing ideas, we'd love to hear them.

Still, overall was pretty awesome, everything considered. Absolute blast to see my vast Persian Empire in EU:III, even if it made me realize I'll probably have to trim up my nation a bit for it to be a little more fun come time to actually convert it over. Maybe let Syria and the Greek Zikri Sultan of Anatolia go off on their own paths, let Timur actually score some minor success when he finally comes calling... and use the console to smash France/England into less obnoxious bits if they don't do it themselves in-game.

:-D
 

Idhrendur

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Does everyone usually start catholic and techless in this version, or am I encountering some sort of bug?

Techless is expected, but your provinces should start as the correct religions. All countries should be no_religion, not Catholic.

Oh, and unless you're using the converter mod, Catholic heresies will become Catholic.
 

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Here is the excel and csv file: View attachment Sliders in EU 3 Divine Wind For Europe.rar.
Things I noticed, ALL monarchies with Catholic religion are Feudal monarchies, some Orthodox countries are despotic(Albania, Muscowy and Trebizond for example), all republics are Administrative Republics, unless they have CoT's, which will make them Merchant Republics(although, you probably knew that alrdy). The governments of Muslims if extremely varied, so it's gonna be quite hard to map them.

Also, if you see countries that are written wrong in my Excel file, thats probably because they were written wrong it the History Folder.
 

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Woah are there two CK2 to EU3 projects going on? What are your design intentions and how do they differ out of curiosity!
 

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Woah are there two CK2 to EU3 projects going on? What are your design intentions and how do they differ out of curiosity!
Basically This converter will be much more detailed then the other one, it will have a converter mod, so it will convert CK 2 specific things like heresies, although this converter is far from ready, while the other converter is much more basic, but it's already out.
 

Idhrendur

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Woah are there two CK2 to EU3 projects going on? What are your design intentions and how do they differ out of curiosity!

Basically This converter will be much more detailed then the other one, it will have a converter mod, so it will convert CK 2 specific things like heresies, although this converter is far from ready, while the other converter is much more basic, but it's already out.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Though the other converter also has the capability of taking advantage of the mod, I'm just not sure if he's put the link anywhere prominent.

If you're curious about any of the specific conversion mechanics, I'm trying to keep all discussions and conclusions linked on the second post. If any bits of that aren't clear, just ask!
 
Last edited:

Idhrendur

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Based on the excel file, I've done an initial implementation of governments like so (these are done in order. If a higher rule applies, lower ones are not considered):

The Papal States get Papal Government.
The three hordes get become Steppe Horde government.
A republic in the HRE gets administrative republic government.
Other republics get noble republic government.
And republic that holds a COT will become a merchant republic. (We don't convert COTs yet, so this doesn't happen in practice).
Bishoprics get theocratic government.
Any empire-level title gets imperial government.
If the country is in the western tech group, it gets feudal monarchy government.
If the country is a vassal of one of the hordes, it gets despotic monarchy government.
If the country is a vassal of anyone, (this includes being in the HRE) it gets feudal monarchy government.
If the highest-ranking vassal is only one level below the ruler's rank, the country get feudal monarchy government.
If the country is in the eastern tech group, it gets despotic monarchy government.
Any remaining nation get tribal democracy government (placeholder to see which nations have been missed, will eventually be replaced by tribal despotism).

Because tech groups are not converted, a lot of nations still show up as tribal democracies. But even once tech groups are done, there needs to be a little something more that pushes a few more nations from tribal to despotic.
 

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I tried to convert a savegame that I had from back to 1.03 and i got an error unfortunatly saying :
Error: tried to create title b_katzenstein, but it is not a potential title.
 

Idhrendur

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I tried to convert a savegame that I had from back to 1.03 and i got an error unfortunatly saying :
Error: tried to create title b_katzenstein, but it is not a potential title.

Did it otherwise convert alright? I think it should have.

It looks like they removed or renamed that title in one of the patches. I'll probably need to remove that error message.
 

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Based on the excel file, I've done an initial implementation of governments like so (these are done in order. If a higher rule applies, lower ones are not considered):

The Papal States get Papal Government.
The three hordes get become Steppe Horde government.
A republic in the HRE gets administrative republic government.
Other republics get noble republic government.
And republic that holds a COT will become a merchant republic. (We don't convert COTs yet, so this doesn't happen in practice).
Bishoprics get theocratic government.
Any empire-level title gets imperial government.
If the country is in the western tech group, it gets feudal monarchy government.
If the country is a vassal of one of the hordes, it gets despotic monarchy government.
If the country is a vassal of anyone, (this includes being in the HRE) it gets feudal monarchy government.
If the highest-ranking vassal is only one level below the ruler's rank, the country get feudal monarchy government.
If the country is in the eastern tech group, it gets despotic monarchy government.
Any remaining nation get tribal democracy government (placeholder to see which nations have been missed, will eventually be replaced by tribal despotism).

Because tech groups are not converted, a lot of nations still show up as tribal democracies. But even once tech groups are done, there needs to be a little something more that pushes a few more nations from tribal to despotic.

What about non-HRE empires? Shouldn't they receive the Empire government, like the ERE does by default in EU:III vanilla?
 

Idhrendur

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What about non-HRE empires? Shouldn't they receive the Empire government, like the ERE does by default in EU:III vanilla?

Yes, any empire level title will be of the Empire government (internally, it's imperial_government, thus my odd phrasing).
 

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there is no way for the hordes to get another type of gevernment? like high crown authority and high technology?
Perhaps if they very consolidated in many areas they can get another type of government?
 

Idhrendur

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there is no way for the hordes to get another type of gevernment? like high crown authority and high technology?
Perhaps if they very consolidated in many areas they can get another type of government?

Well, their special CBs and army mechanics are tied to the horde titles. And the EU3 equivalent mechanics tie to the Steppe Horde government. It seems to fit.

Now that I think about it, though, I seem to recall that if they turn Christian they lose some of those mechanics. That might be worth giving them a different government over. Maybe.
 

thekinguter

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Couldn't you map anglo-saxon to EUIII germanic saxon?
 

Idhrendur

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Couldn't you map anglo-saxon to EUIII germanic saxon?

You could, but they're not really the same thing at all, no more than pagan Pomeranian is German Pomeranian or CK2 Prussian is EU3 Prussian.
 

plnp123

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Now that I think about it, though, I seem to recall that if they turn Christian they lose some of those mechanics. That might be worth giving them a different government over. Maybe.

They lose the special CB's if they become christian. One time the GH converted to catholicism and when i managed to inherit the title, the most brutal cb's were gone
 

Idhrendur

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You have too many independent CK2 titles for the number of EU3 tags available.

What you can do is open configuration.txt, and replace the line
HRETitle = "e_hre"
with
HRETitle = ""

That will merge the HRE into a single nation and free up about 60 tags. You only need 13 more, so that should be sufficient.
 

Idhrendur

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They lose the special CB's if they become christian. One time the GH converted to catholicism and when i managed to inherit the title, the most brutal cb's were gone

That's for pointing out that whole issue. Christian hordes are now assumed to have settled down, and get the same government (and tech group!) rules as other nations.
 

Panxagamba

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Ok :)

It works, thanks ^^

(I can't wait for the final version of this converter :D)