Keeper of the Converters
- Feb 27, 2009
Alrighty, so I took the current version of this for a whirl, using my on-going Baduspanid Empire (Persia) game as a test run. Interesting results:
Baduspanid Empire and Europe in CKII:
Baduspanid Empire and Europe (and the rest of the world) in EUIII:
Things I noticed:
First of all, I love your observation and analysis. Please stick around, we always need more smart people helping with ideas, lest you be left with just my ones.
Yep, that's just a default for now. It'll be resolved in the next version (0.5). There was a post just recently that also includes how we'll do governments. It's all linked in the OP.[*]Everyone is a techless tribal despot.
[*]Scotland, Finland, and Norway are all held by the same King in CKII, but the conversion seems to have made him three men rather than put any in a PU.
That'll be handled in version 0.6, with all the diplomacy stuff.
[*]Some countries are incredibly weirdly placed, like Kurland and Pskov as Muslim African states.
There's a section in the FAQ about it, and we've some zany ideas with the converter that may resolve it.
[*]Maybe I just didn't notice, but the lack of non-independent cores makes me sad.
When we fix the blobification, that should be one of the possible results (we're going to have to reopen that discussion sometime soon).
They at least got the cores, right? Also, the province mappings really need some review. care to look into it a bit?[*]Poor Russian Teutons got cut in half with Denmark taking precedence... but smaller county count in EUIII Europe will do that.
Hopefully that will be a bit resolved when we deal with blobification.[*]Balance is going to be terrifying, as if this game were to be started as it is both myself and France are already currently super-scary empires. It'll get scarier in a few months when England wins their current war for the French crown.
[*]Interestingly, the Ilkhanate has been pushed off my map in CKII, but they still have a ruler and it acts as though they still exist, just out east somewhere.
Yeah, I need to deal with all the territory-less titles. Many of them get considered for mapping to EU3 tags, which doesn't make much sense. Though there's some half-formed ideas in my head about de-jure terrritory and cores that I need to make into full ideas and share here first.
[*]Don't know what the plan is regarding heresies, but I did a sad face when my Persians all got turned back into Sunni. We fought for the new faith of Zikri, my ficitonal version in my head some zany combination of Islam and Zoroastrianism (which my first Zikri ruler was a follower of for much of his life).
Use the converter mod. It'll turn that sad face into a happy one.
[*]Not related to the converter, but lordy I hate that Persia and the Golden Horde are almost identical colors.
There's only one solution: destroy them completely. Or induce Russia to do so.
I figure some of those are known issues, and I apologize for re-stating them. But from what I have read in-thread, and just some other general thoughts, here's my thought process:
[*]Primary culture should be based on the capital's culture. This is how EU:III tends to handle it, so it should be here.
An interesting thought. However, I like that one of our sample saves has Franks ruling a completely Greek Latin Empire (well, it gets mapped to Byzantium). The difficulty of that situation should come across. But overall it will tend to work out that way. In fact, I'll do a post about that soon, since I've implemented this already. Of course, if it turns out to work poorly, it can be changed.
[*]Accepted cultures should be treated base purely on EU:III's rules. For example, my Persian's would probably be accepting of both Armenians and Greeks at this point, as they're a large portion of our Empire (probably over 5% minimum for keeping it accepted, easily). Not to mention I'm fond of giving them their own rulers, but that's irrelevant. Armenian Emirs just amuse me.
Done. Using EU3 base tax and province culture. It seems to work pretty well.
[*]Sometimes when possible, using the Feudal system to break down giant blobs should be possible (if it's possible, that is). Having France start off as fractured duchies like vanilla EU:III might help re-balance things rather than starting off in 1399 with the BBB already at full steam. If not, nothing stopping the player from doing some editting. Heck, you could even use the CKII console to take control of dukes, have em' declare independence, then make their liege surrender.
Yes, we plan to do so (I don't think any of us are fans of the current blobification). I've just been focusing on entirely missing mechanics. And also we entirely disagree about how it should be done. Always makes things interesting.
[*]Population I'd personally like to see remain as it is in EU:III, or at least not diverge too heavily. Just because I made Jämtland the center of my Norse Empire doesn't mean it suddenly exploded in population. A cultural center it may be, but it's also a cold, mountainous place. People live where its easiest to live, not where their rulers decided it'd be awesome to set up shop.
All of that is tweakable in the latest release. There's a whole bunch of options for the details of converting population, base tax, and manpower. Please play with them and inform me what groups of setting work well. Ideally, I'd like to leave the historical/blended/converted option in for each and have the others hard coded to good options. Too many options to end users can be entirely unhelpful, after all.
[*]Similar thoughts on technology. Perhaps a small influence over the defaults, but CKII tech levels should be the defining guideline. Or, perhaps, the difference between the different levels of tech shouldn't be overly dramatic. Maybe the crappiness of Muslim tech groups will help Christianity catch back up in the early years of EU:III, /shrug
We've had some discussions before. I'm planning to go with the existing ideas, but if you've alternate ideas or improvements to the existing ideas, we'd love to hear them.
Still, overall was pretty awesome, everything considered. Absolute blast to see my vast Persian Empire in EU:III, even if it made me realize I'll probably have to trim up my nation a bit for it to be a little more fun come time to actually convert it over. Maybe let Syria and the Greek Zikri Sultan of Anatolia go off on their own paths, let Timur actually score some minor success when he finally comes calling... and use the console to smash France/England into less obnoxious bits if they don't do it themselves in-game.