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Idhrendur

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Converter Version 0.4 Now Released
Download Link
Overall Link

Relevant New Features
Now supports up to versions 1.06b, while retaining support for older versions
More countries get correctly mapped
Province cultures set
Province religions set
Province capital city names set
Population converted
Manpower converted
Trade goods imported
Base tax converted
Can set EU3 options in configuration.txt
Tons of options for conversion of population, manpower, and base tax

Discussion
Most base items for EU3 provinces are now converted. However, I'm not entirely happy with the results of manpower, base tax, and population conversion. So I've left many items configurable so people can play with the settings, find what leads to good results, and let me know. When good settings have been found, I'll hard code many of those options.

Those options are:
  • proxyMultiplierMethod - each holding gives a score towards each of the items being converted based on its buildings. If the holding is also someone's primary holding, this score is multiplied by an amount depending on the character's rank. This option determines those multipliers.
  • multipleProvsMethod - when multiple CK2 provinces comprise one EU3 province, what do do with those holding scores. Sum them, or average them across the CK2 provinces.
  • Conversion methods for each of the three items - historical just imports the values from the province history. Converted uses our conversion method. Blended combines the two. For each item, there is also an option to determine the level of blending.

The first version of the converter mod is also available. It adds all extra CK2 religions and cultures to EU3.


Changelog
Code:
Revision	Log Message
---------	----------------
122		Added Ireland_endgame to sample saves
123		Updated readme.txt
124		Added dirty religion mappings
		Added converter mod directory: 0.1 now adds new religions
125		Merge
126		CK3 to EU3 converter mod religion and cultures
127		Updated country title mapping with almost all tags
128		Merge
129		Sync Changelog.txt with repository
130		Add Nyrael's Croatia 1453 game to sample saves
131		Get version number from save game
132		Add Hispania1399_10_17 save game
133		Read all files in traits and dynasties directories
134		Update readme file
135		Province mapping for 1.06, using version number in save to determine which set to use
136		Add some bits to province history
137		Clean up CK2 classes
138		Add missing bits to constructors
139		Initial culture conversion for provinces
140		Refactor EU3 classes
141		Update culture conversion to allow distinguishers
142		ROTW cultures
143		Province capital names from EU3 data. Also, much more province history is output.
144		Add a few new cultures to converter mod. Also update mod culture mappings
145		Updates to culture mappings and mod after some testing
146		Update converter mod to make easy for mod directory use
147		Initial religion conversion
148		Religions for ROTW provinces
149		Heresy modifier for heretic religions (only if ruler's religion different)
150		Simplify the heretic modifier
151		Update 'religion' culture distinguisher rules to include heretics
152		Population conversion
153		HelloGoodSir's recommendation about Saxon culture mapping to Scottish
154		Manpower conversion
155		Trade goods
156		Base Tax conversion
157		Fix traits bug
158		Use population proxy to determine culture and religion where needed
159		Proxy multiplier for capitals
160		Fix to make proxy multiplier work
161		Allow manpower, basetax, and population to be converted to historical values (configuration option)
162		Output name comes from input name if it's specified (works on drag-n-drops, too)
163		Fix parser bug (in setRHSObjList())
164		Add blended option for population conversion
165		Fix unmapped provinces error
166		Modified build.bat to use 7zip instead of IZARC
167		Modified build.bat to use 7zip instead of IZARC
168		Merge
169		Use basetax and manpower proxies to try to break ties in culture conversion
170		Merge
171		Update test batch files to use 7-zip
172		Prepare converter mod for first releaseable version
173		Create and use CK2Building class
174		Baronies no longer get wrong religion buildings
175		Can set EU3 options via configuration.txt
176		Make a bunch of province conversion things configurable
177		Don't bother mapping wastelands to wastelands
178		Map CK2 religions to CK2 religion groups
179		Map CK2 cultures to CK2 culture groups, then disallow wrong culture buildings
180		Use basetax and manpower proxies to try to break ties in religion conversion
181		Default output filename is again output.eu3
 

sir Eyeball

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Yep, saw it. Unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen. While Johan loves the idea of creating an official converter, it's a lot of effort, and they don't really have a team big enough to dedicate someone to doing it.

Though I'd be stoked if they did—saves me a lot of effort to have them do it.
It would be for EU 4though not 3 of course so this is still valid
 

Idhrendur

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Time to open the discussion on the next conversion mechanics that will be implemented.

Primary culture
The easy method would be to simply use the ruler's culture. But that seems like it could lead to some odd situations. The AI doesn't seem to like to change primary cultures in EU3, so if a Greek ruler was in charge of a completely French France at conversion time, the primary culture for France would be Greek, and would stay that way.

But we also want this to be distinct from province culture, to represent the potential struggles of conquest of new territories.

Accepted Cultures
It'd be nice to include some of these. EU3 has a higher bar for adding an accepted culture than for retaining one, so just leaving it to EU3 wouldn't be the best solution. Probably we'll just copy the EU3 rules.

Primary Religion
I'm happy to just copy the ruler's religion here. If a ruler's religion is different from their nation's and they want to try to convert the nation, they've got missionaries to do it with.

Government
This has been discussed before (see the links in the second post), and it seems the following will be our method:
Feudal Monarchy: the default government type
Despotic Monarchy: replaces feudal monarchy if there are a sufficiently low numbers of vassals
Empire: given to holders of one of the empire-level titles
Theocracy: default title for church lands
Papacy: the Papacy
Noble Republic: default for republics
Merchant Republic: republics that contain a COT once converted
Administrative Republic: ???
Steppe Horde: Mongols

Technology Group / Technology
This has also been discussed before. We'll probably use the method from this post, with the correction of only including muslim or better tech groups.

Sliders
Again, there have been a few bits of discussion. I like the ideas proposed so far, but we do need to go through the different EU3 nations in the grand campaign and see what the normal ranges for the sliders are in the first place.
 

plnp123

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My ideas for primary and accepted culture:

An independent count should have his culture as primary and accepted culture -taking into account regional conversions as mapped-
For integrated parts of independent states Im not sure wether to use a weighted system with each ruler or just see which culture is the prevalent among counts dukes and so on.
Vassal realms should have a similar system but also its liege culture as accepted.
Finally if a ruler ends up with a different primary culture realm, make his culture accepted
 

CerealGuns

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For integrated parts of independent states Im not sure wether to use a weighted system with each ruler or just see which culture is the prevalent among counts dukes and so on.

I like the notion of a weighted average with greater weights assigned to higher ranked rulers.

Edit: Also, I just tested the converter on 3 different late game saves. One worked fine and the other two got the "Too many CK2 nations" problem.
 
Last edited:

DasGuntLord01

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In EU3, the Primary Culture mechanic is supposed to represent the dominant culture, or the culture of the rulers of the land. When you consider that the nations rulers are more than simply the monarch, it doesn't seem unreasonable to use the cultures of all the title holders in the realm (and maybe even the courtiers, too, if you like).

As for accepted cultures, I think using the EU3 rule is probably the best, assuming you can calculate tax income by culture. Then, if you assume that our cultures have already been accepted, any culture that contributes at least 5% tax income will be considered accepted. You can probably simplify this, if you like, by simply considering base tax by culture.
 

Idhrendur

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In EU3, the Primary Culture mechanic is supposed to represent the dominant culture, or the culture of the rulers of the land. When you consider that the nations rulers are more than simply the monarch, it doesn't seem unreasonable to use the cultures of all the title holders in the realm (and maybe even the courtiers, too, if you like).

As for accepted cultures, I think using the EU3 rule is probably the best, assuming you can calculate tax income by culture. Then, if you assume that our cultures have already been accepted, any culture that contributes at least 5% tax income will be considered accepted. You can probably simplify this, if you like, by simply considering base tax by culture.

See, that's why I mention these things: I know it saves me the effort of looking it up. :-D

Using base tax should be easy enough to do. If an EU3 country doesn't already have pointers to all provinces in its control, it really should, and will shortly.
 

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I converted my save twice, once i had my primary title be HRE, and the other time it was ERE, in the HRE save, i had the too many nations error, in the ERE save, I converted succesfully, although my previous CK 2 realm became 1 big purple blob, except for my Heir's land(he was a king of Frisia, holding alot of land) but he was still my vassal, and seeing how other kings didn't got independent(Iberia was ruled by 3 strong vassal kings), I have no idea why he should be independent, while others arent. The CA in CK 2 of the ERE was limited, so at least the kings should have been independent. I presume you update this, also, if possible, give provinces cores of their de-jure nations, and do not give them cores of their ruler if they aren't their de-jure, just to induce nationalism and break up blobs.

Also, you say you gonna have countries with not much vassals be Despotic Monarchs, wouldn't this be kinda weird, look at 1399 Holy Roman Empire, all(with exception of a few) of these have Feudal monarchies while lot of them are 1 or 2 country nations.
 

Idhrendur

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I converted my save twice, once i had my primary title be HRE, and the other time it was ERE, in the HRE save, i had the too many nations error, in the ERE save, I converted succesfully, although my previous CK 2 realm became 1 big purple blob, except for my Heir's land(he was a king of Frisia, holding alot of land) but he was still my vassal, and seeing how other kings didn't got independent(Iberia was ruled by 3 strong vassal kings), I have no idea why he should be independent, while others arent. The CA in CK 2 of the ERE was limited, so at least the kings should have been independent.
We're not yet doing anything really advanced with figuring out who's independent. As for your son's independence, vassal-liege relationships are by title. It looks like he continued to swear fealty to the HRE title even when you switched primary titles (if you change the HRETitle setting in configuration.txt to "", that should cease to be an issue).

I presume you update this, also, if possible, give provinces cores of their de-jure nations, and do not give them cores of their ruler if they aren't their de-jure, just to induce nationalism and break up blobs.

That's more-or-less what I had been thinking. Also that some vassals who aren't independent will still have cores appear.

Also, you say you gonna have countries with not much vassals be Despotic Monarchs, wouldn't this be kinda weird, look at 1399 Holy Roman Empire, all(with exception of a few) of these have Feudal monarchies while lot of them are 1 or 2 country nations.

That's a good point. I'll need to change that to 'replaces feudal monarchy if there are a sufficiently low numbers of vassals and the country is not a vassal of a feudal monarchy'.
 

Idhrendur

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A commenter on Reddit was pointing out the similarities between Waldensians and Calvinists (Reformed). He initially suggested we could convert them directly across, but I'm not sure what that will do to the reformation events. He then suggested we add an event that turns Waldesians into Reformed. I did some quick research, and it seems that's what happened historically.

This led to a rabbit trail of research on the CK2 heresies (or at least the Christian ones), and led me to the following ideas for events to be added to the converter mod:
Event to make Waldesians convert to Reformed once Reformed is around
Event to make Lollards convert to Protestant once Protestant is around
Event to make some Bogomilists convert to Catholicism once the Counter-Reformation is complete
Event to integrate iconoclasts with Orthodox if ortodox ruler takes iconoclism decision (or have that decision change religions?)

Also, perhaps some color adjustments? I may be entirely wrong about these, so feel free to shoot down these ideas:
Change Cathar color to similar to Catholic
Change Fraticelli color to a little more yellow
Change Lollard color to closer to Protestant
Change Bogomilist color to between Catholic and Orthodox
change iconoclast color to closer to orthodox
change nestorian color to closer to orthodox
 

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A commenter on Reddit was pointing out the similarities between Waldensians and Calvinists (Reformed). He initially suggested we could convert them directly across, but I'm not sure what that will do to the reformation events. He then suggested we add an event that turns Waldesians into Reformed. I did some quick research, and it seems that's what happened historically.

This led to a rabbit trail of research on the CK2 heresies (or at least the Christian ones), and led me to the following ideas for events to be added to the converter mod:
Event to make Waldesians convert to Reformed once Reformed is around
Event to make Lollards convert to Protestant once Protestant is around
Event to make some Bogomilists convert to Catholicism once the Counter-Reformation is complete
Event to integrate iconoclasts with Orthodox if ortodox ruler takes iconoclism decision (or have that decision change religions?)

Also, perhaps some color adjustments? I may be entirely wrong about these, so feel free to shoot down these ideas:
Change Cathar color to similar to Catholic
Change Fraticelli color to a little more yellow
Change Lollard color to closer to Protestant
Change Bogomilist color to between Catholic and Orthodox
change iconoclast color to closer to orthodox
change nestorian color to closer to orthodox
Some things I would really like to see in the converter mods(just to make the converter clsoer to perfect): Religion specific names/crests for countries, If I conquer a muslim state as a Catholic, completely convert it to catholicism, possibly even change it's culture to a European one, it would really bother me to see the crescent in the flag, or names like "Mamluks" or "Ottomans"(you should just change the Ottomans to "Turks" or "Turkey", almost 100% of the time, if turks manage to make it to 1399 the Turks aren't led by a Ottoman, unless you pick a very late starting date).

Also, something of a bit less importance, removing some country specific missions, or change them, to make sense, for example, there is a English mission that says that Normandy was taken from King John by the french and that it should be reclaimed, which is weird, chances are small that in your campaign, Normandy will be lost from the English to the French during the reign of a King John of England. There is also a event for the Byzantines who are mad at the Venetians for starting the 4th crusade that ended up screwing the Byzantines, same story here, I doubt that Venetians will have done a massive attack on teh Byzantines in anyone's playthrough. There are many more missions like this, every major country that existed in both EU 3 and CK 2 timeframe, will probably have these kind of missions
 

Idhrendur

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I've gotten the religion and culture bits of the converter done today. And we've a good handle on most of the remaining bits for the next release.

However, it would be really helpful if someone could look through the different European countries in the EU3 grand campaign and note min/max/average ranges for the different sliders. It's recorded in the /history/country/ files.
 

Puking Panda

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I've gotten the religion and culture bits of the converter done today. And we've a good handle on most of the remaining bits for the next release.

However, it would be really helpful if someone could look through the different European countries in the EU3 grand campaign and note min/max/average ranges for the different sliders. It's recorded in the /history/country/ files.
I guess I could do this for you, you want to just know the sliders for Europa or the middle-east too. I probably will put it in a excel file(or not if you don't want that) so it's easier to calculate the average.
 

Idhrendur

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I guess I could do this for you, you want to just know the sliders for Europa or the middle-east too. I probably will put it in a excel file(or not if you don't want that) so it's easier to calculate the average.

Any of the nations that have the potential to appear in the CK2 area. And an excel file would be perfect. In fact, if you save it as csv, you can just open in in notepad, then copy everything into a forum post. Much easier than uploading it somewhere. Thanks so much!
 

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I've gotten the religion and culture bits of the converter done today. And we've a good handle on most of the remaining bits for the next release.

However, it would be really helpful if someone could look through the different European countries in the EU3 grand campaign and note min/max/average ranges for the different sliders. It's recorded in the /history/country/ files.

Min and max sliders are on eu3 wiki http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Government
 

Idhrendur

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Comradebot

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Alrighty, so I took the current version of this for a whirl, using my on-going Baduspanid Empire (Persia) game as a test run. Interesting results:

Baduspanid Empire and Europe in CKII:

ck2_90.jpg

ck2_map_18.jpg



Baduspanid Empire and Europe (and the rest of the world) in EUIII:

EU3_9.jpg

EU3_MAP_PER_1337220_1.jpg



Things I noticed:

  • Everyone is a techless tribal despot.
  • Some countries are incredibly weirdly placed, like Kurland and Pskov as Muslim African states.
  • Scotland, Finland, and Norway are all held by the same King in CKII, but the conversion seems to have made him three men rather than put any in a PU.
  • Maybe I just didn't notice, but the lack of non-independent cores makes me sad.
  • Poor Russian Teutons got cut in half with Denmark taking precedence... but smaller county count in EUIII Europe will do that.
  • Balance is going to be terrifying, as if this game were to be started as it is both myself and France are already currently super-scary empires. It'll get scarier in a few months when England wins their current war for the French crown. :eek:
  • Interestingly, the Ilkhanate has been pushed off my map in CKII, but they still have a ruler and it acts as though they still exist, just out east somewhere.
  • Don't know what the plan is regarding heresies, but I did a sad face when my Persians all got turned back into Sunni. We fought for the new faith of Zikri, my ficitonal version in my head some zany combination of Islam and Zoroastrianism (which my first Zikri ruler was a follower of for much of his life).
  • Not related to the converter, but lordy I hate that Persia and the Golden Horde are almost identical colors.



I figure some of those are known issues, and I apologize for re-stating them. But from what I have read in-thread, and just some other general thoughts, here's my thought process:

  1. Primary culture should be based on the capital's culture. This is how EU:III tends to handle it, so it should be here.
  2. Accepted cultures should be treated base purely on EU:III's rules. For example, my Persian's would probably be accepting of both Armenians and Greeks at this point, as they're a large portion of our Empire (probably over 5% minimum for keeping it accepted, easily). Not to mention I'm fond of giving them their own rulers, but that's irrelevant. Armenian Emirs just amuse me. :)
  3. Sometimes when possible, using the Feudal system to break down giant blobs should be possible (if it's possible, that is). Having France start off as fractured duchies like vanilla EU:III might help re-balance things rather than starting off in 1399 with the BBB already at full steam. If not, nothing stopping the player from doing some editting. Heck, you could even use the CKII console to take control of dukes, have em' declare independence, then make their liege surrender.
  4. Population I'd personally like to see remain as it is in EU:III, or at least not diverge too heavily. Just because I made Jämtland the center of my Norse Empire doesn't mean it suddenly exploded in population. A cultural center it may be, but it's also a cold, mountainous place. People live where its easiest to live, not where their rulers decided it'd be awesome to set up shop.
  5. Similar thoughts on technology. Perhaps a small influence over the defaults, but CKII tech levels should be the defining guideline. Or, perhaps, the difference between the different levels of tech shouldn't be overly dramatic. Maybe the crappiness of Muslim tech groups will help Christianity catch back up in the early years of EU:III, /shrug

Still, overall was pretty awesome, everything considered. Absolute blast to see my vast Persian Empire in EU:III, even if it made me realize I'll probably have to trim up my nation a bit for it to be a little more fun come time to actually convert it over. Maybe let Syria and the Greek Zikri Sultan of Anatolia go off on their own paths, let Timur actually score some minor success when he finally comes calling... and use the console to smash France/England into less obnoxious bits if they don't do it themselves in-game.
 

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Alright I gonna make the excel file now, by the way, here are the initial slider positions of EU 3 in HTTT, although I will make a new updated 1 showing jsut the ones for Europe(and Middle-East) for Divine Wind
 

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Does everyone usually start catholic and techless in this version, or am I encountering some sort of bug?