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magritte2

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For areas where the culture has spread beyond its historical limits (like Germans in Mesopotamia), would it be possible to assign cultures based on the home provinces of the CK2 dynasty that rules them? I guess that aside from the vast number of potential dynasty names, you'd run into issues because the ruler might not match the province culture.
 

Idhrendur

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For areas where the culture has spread beyond its historical limits (like Germans in Mesopotamia), would it be possible to assign cultures based on the home provinces of the CK2 dynasty that rules them? I guess that aside from the vast number of potential dynasty names, you'd run into issues because the ruler might not match the province culture.

That would be a lovely idea. Unfortunately, there's no in-game concept of a home province for dynasties (at least not anything we could easily extract). And I suspect that most of the time, a lower-level ruler would end up ruling just the new territory, not a combination of new and old territory we would use to figure things out.
 

Idhrendur

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Religious Conversion
(Updated 22/8/2012)

…without a converter mod we are going to need to use the EU3 heresy mechanic, and do a bit of fudging to at least maintain some of it's destabilising influence. The steps will be something like this.

1) The heretic religions must be converted to their parent religion, as per the religion mappings.
2) Each province that has a heretic version of the leaders religion gains heresy.
3) The reformation is yet to happen.


For example: your CK2 leader is Catholic, but some of your provinces are Cathar. The cathar provinces will be converted as Catholic, but gain heresy.

For example: Your CK2 leader is Cathar, and you have catholic provinces. Your leader will convert to Catholic, but each non-cathar christian province will gain heresy.

For example: Your CK2 leader is Orthodox, and you have catholic and cathar provinces. The nations state religion will be Orthodox (has a 1 to 1 conversion), the Cathar provinces will become catholic, and no provinces will gain heresy.


This is far from perfect, but it's the only way I can think of the maintain some of the instability that these differences of religion imply in a game of CK2 without a converter mod. Lots of information is still lost.

If multiple CK2 provinces map to a EU3 province, we use the population proxies from the population conversion to determine which religion is chosen (majority wins). In the case of a tie, we use first the base tax proxies and then the manpower proxies to try to break the tie. In the case of a continued tie, the results are arbitrary, and a warning is output.


Links to Religion Conversion Posts
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
 
Last edited:

unmerged(431840)

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During the EU3 timeframe, Scottish culture would be best modeled as highland (in the celtic group) and lowland (in the british group). I believe EU3 initially had that setup but Paradox determined that it didn't work to well from a gameplay perspective. Thus there is only one Scottish culture in EU3, and it is in the british group, representing the dominance of lowland scots. Lowland scots is pretty much the saxon culture from CK2, with less Norman influence than England.

Thus you should add the following rule:

link = { ck2 = saxon eu3 = scottish de_jure = k_scotland }

Arguably all saxon culture should convert to scottish, rather than english. However that would be dumb so don't do that.
 

Idhrendur

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During the EU3 timeframe, Scottish culture would be best modeled as highland (in the celtic group) and lowland (in the british group). I believe EU3 initially had that setup but Paradox determined that it didn't work to well from a gameplay perspective. Thus there is only one Scottish culture in EU3, and it is in the british group, representing the dominance of lowland scots. Lowland scots is pretty much the saxon culture from CK2, with less Norman influence than England.

Thus you should add the following rule:

link = { ck2 = saxon eu3 = scottish de_jure = k_scotland }

Arguably all saxon culture should convert to scottish, rather than english. However that would be dumb so don't do that.

I guess that explains the Saxon culture in the lowlands in CK2, then. I've gone and done as you've suggested.
 

Idhrendur

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I'm gone and done population conversion, but I'm not entirely happy with the results.

I'm pretty much redistributing EU3 population according to the earning power of the CK2 baronies (less what you get from walls). And while it's hardly an even distribution, it seems more even than default EU3. At least I think. There's no population size mapmode to make it easy.

I'm not sure if there's a better idea for dong this and it'd be a pity to not have it be influenced by CK2 events. Any suggestions?
 

GreyHuge

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How does everyone feel about shifting the batch files to use 7zip to compress the release version instead IZARC? I could do it in less than 10 minutes, pending approval.
 

Idhrendur

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How does everyone feel about shifting the batch files to use 7zip to compress the release version instead IZARC? I could do it in less than 10 minutes, pending approval.

Do it. Please.

Edit: Just please continue to use variables for install locations. I like to install software in non-default locations.
 

Zex

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just saying wouldn't you wait till EUIV comes out before you start on EU3
 

Idhrendur

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just saying wouldn't you wait till EUIV comes out before you start on EU3

That's more than a year away. We've plenty of time before we need to worry about EU4.
 

Alphanos

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I'm gone and done population conversion, but I'm not entirely happy with the results.

I'm pretty much redistributing EU3 population according to the earning power of the CK2 baronies (less what you get from walls). And while it's hardly an even distribution, it seems more even than default EU3. At least I think. There's no population size mapmode to make it easy.

I'm not sure if there's a better idea for dong this and it'd be a pity to not have it be influenced by CK2 events. Any suggestions?

I haven't been following this thread so if this is an infeasible option then I apologize in advance. But how about some kind of weighted calculation based both upon province/barony income and levy size? In any CK2 game that goes on for a while there can be large differences in raiseable troop size of different provinces depending on what was going on there.
 

Puking Panda

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I guess the most historically plausible way to do it by first taking 90% of the 1399 population from EU 3(if you want the converted save to take place in 1399), then modify the population based upon the province's tech level, the tech 4.0(or maybe 3.5, not sure what the average CK 2 tech level is by 1399), provinces lower then the base tech should get less then the 1399 EU 3 population, and vice versa, 40% population for each point they have extra in tech, or 40% if they have 1 tech level less.
Example: Holland in EU 3 has 10000 population(it actually has about 30000, but this is just a example), if Holland and Westfriesland have exactly tech level 4 in CK 2, it has 9000 in EU 3.
Then it should about be as follows:
Tech 3: 5400 ---- Tech 3.1: 5760 ---- Tech 3.2: 6120 ---- Tech 3.3: 6480 ---- Tech 3.4: 6840 ---- Tech 3.5: 7200 ---- Tech 3.6: 7560 ---- Tech 3.7: 7920 ---- Tech 3.8: 8280 ---- Tech 3.9: 8640 ---- Tech 4.0: 9000 ---- Tech 4.1: 9360 ---- Tech 4.2: 9720 ---- Tech 4.3: 10080 ---- Tech 4.4: 10440 ---- Tech 4.5: 10800 ---- Tech 4.6: 11160 ---- Tech 4.7: 11520 ---- Tech 4.8: 11880 ---- Tech 4.9: 12240 ---- Tech 5.0: 12600

I think it would make sense that the level of technology would affect the population size of the main province city, better technology would give better farming ways and more people might have left the agriculture for the city the more advanced a nation is. Also, the use of the original EU 3 population should be used to prevent things like a very populated Iceland(the Icelandic cities in EU 3 have just like 1000 population each, I dont want this to become absurdly higher).

I also think this way of providing population is very flawed but I just cant think of another better way now.

Have the province income determine the base tax and levy size the manpower(I haven't really figured out how to do determine that though). Then use the base tax and manpower to add back some of that 10% population that was initally being taken off.
 

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I haven't been following this thread so if this is an infeasible option then I apologize in advance. But how about some kind of weighted calculation based both upon province/barony income and levy size? In any CK2 game that goes on for a while there can be large differences in raiseable troop size of different provinces depending on what was going on there.
You know, I had this dumb idea a while back. What if we based the province population on the number of nobles in that province?
 

Idhrendur

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I haven't been following this thread so if this is an infeasible option then I apologize in advance. But how about some kind of weighted calculation based both upon province/barony income and levy size? In any CK2 game that goes on for a while there can be large differences in raiseable troop size of different provinces depending on what was going on there.

I don't really like the idea of having levies affect population; they're just so small proportionally to the population available that it doesn't seem they should have much of an effect.

I guess the most historically plausible way to do it by first taking 90% of the 1399 population from EU 3(if you want the converted save to take place in 1399), then modify the population based upon the province's tech level, the tech 4.0(or maybe 3.5, not sure what the average CK 2 tech level is by 1399), provinces lower then the base tech should get less then the 1399 EU 3 population, and vice versa, 40% population for each point they have extra in tech, or 40% if they have 1 tech level less.
Example: Holland in EU 3 has 10000 population(it actually has about 30000, but this is just a example), if Holland and Westfriesland have exactly tech level 4 in CK 2, it has 9000 in EU 3.
Then it should about be as follows:
Tech 3: 5400 ---- Tech 3.1: 5760 ---- Tech 3.2: 6120 ---- Tech 3.3: 6480 ---- Tech 3.4: 6840 ---- Tech 3.5: 7200 ---- Tech 3.6: 7560 ---- Tech 3.7: 7920 ---- Tech 3.8: 8280 ---- Tech 3.9: 8640 ---- Tech 4.0: 9000 ---- Tech 4.1: 9360 ---- Tech 4.2: 9720 ---- Tech 4.3: 10080 ---- Tech 4.4: 10440 ---- Tech 4.5: 10800 ---- Tech 4.6: 11160 ---- Tech 4.7: 11520 ---- Tech 4.8: 11880 ---- Tech 4.9: 12240 ---- Tech 5.0: 12600

I think it would make sense that the level of technology would affect the population size of the main province city, better technology would give better farming ways and more people might have left the agriculture for the city the more advanced a nation is. Also, the use of the original EU 3 population should be used to prevent things like a very populated Iceland(the Icelandic cities in EU 3 have just like 1000 population each, I dont want this to become absurdly higher).

I also think this way of providing population is very flawed but I just cant think of another better way now.

Have the province income determine the base tax and levy size the manpower(I haven't really figured out how to do determine that though). Then use the base tax and manpower to add back some of that 10% population that was initally being taken off.

I've already got 'converted' and 'historical' as options for population (and manpower and basetax) conversion. I'm going to borrow some of these ideas for a 'blended' option.

You know, I had this dumb idea a while back. What if we based the province population on the number of nobles in that province?

I'm not sure at all that's a good proxy for the populations in the cities as a whole. Don't the court populations have the ability to fluctuate independent of player actions? And there's some kind of soft cap at 30, IIRC (courtiers stop having children when you get to that point).




All of you, I may be entirely wrong in my responses. If I am: go ahead and convince me. :)
 

DasGuntLord01

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You can see that population is difficult, but know this: population has little effect on things in EU3, so whatever system you decide to implement isn't going to have an effect on balance, only really aesthetics.

Having said that, tax income of a province (or non military buildings levels, and so on) make more sense to me than anything else does, but it's still not very good.
 

Idhrendur

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You can see that population is difficult, but know this: population has little effect on things in EU3, so whatever system you decide to implement isn't going to have an effect on balance, only really aesthetics.

Having said that, tax income of a province (or non military buildings levels, and so on) make more sense to me than anything else does, but it's still not very good.

True, but it will eventually affect CK2->EU3->V2 conversion games.

Also, I'm using essentially the same mechanics for base tax and manpower, so the problems are general.

Still, I've some ideas to try to resolve them. I'll probably include a bunch of the ideas, make them configurable, and do a release so you and other analytical types can try and find a good balance. I'm also including a 'historical' option for all three, which just imports the EU3 settings.
 

Idhrendur

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Trade Good Conversion

There was a lively discussion about trade good awhile back, with some interesting proposals. It was noted that trade goods are significant for the long-term earning potential of an EU3 province.

However, it seems that production and trade are fairly weak at the start of EU3. At best, production in a province is worth 1/4 of the tax from the province, and it is typically even lower. So trade goods represent something that becomes of great importance in the EU3 era, but was not of great importance during the CK2 era (and has nothing in CK2 we can directly use to model it).

Therefore, trade goods are just directly input from the EU3 province history files.

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Idhrendur

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Province and Capital City Names Conversion

Province names are not set by the converter, and are instead filled in by the EU3 engine from the localization files.

Capital City names are imported from the province history files.


It was pointed out that the other converter has a mechanic for adjusting province and capital city names based on the CK2 history. And permission was obtained to borrow this feature. However, most of the names are just ensuring that the expected EU3 name would remain. At this point, the feature does not seem worth the effort, and will not be implemented (though if someone else feels like implementing it, they are more than welcome to).

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Idhrendur

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http://www.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2012/video.html?sid=6391927&category=highlights have you guys checked this out pay special attention to the very last thing he says

Yep, saw it. Unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen. While Johan loves the idea of creating an official converter, it's a lot of effort, and they don't really have a team big enough to dedicate someone to doing it.

Though I'd be stoked if they did—saves me a lot of effort to have them do it.