KingKenny04

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Is there any reason why EU3 couldn't be modded to accept the additional tags from CK2? As I understand it, this is what the EU3 -> V2 mod does. I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the thread if it has been.
 

Idhrendur

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Other than the new provinces, nothing I read in the changelog should affect the converter (we even got in muslims' succession style beforehand). But there's nothing like actual testing to see. The difficulty is, I'm working on the EU3 to V2 converter right now, and it'll be a little while before I work on the next major feature here.
 

Idhrendur

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Is there any reason why EU3 couldn't be modded to accept the additional tags from CK2? As I understand it, this is what the EU3 -> V2 mod does. I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the thread if it has been.

It's been briefly alluded to, but I don't think explicitly mentioned. The difficulty is that there are a LOT of CK2 titles: every barony, county, duchy, kingdom, empire, mercenary band, holy order, and religious ruler has a title. It's overwhelming, and I'm pretty sure it's enough to cause a major slowdown in EU3 if we added them all. At least the occasional developer comment implies it's so with the game engine.
 

Idhrendur

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Oh, but here's a crazy idea for a world where we've infinite man hours to develop with: the converter creates a file that can be used as input to some other program that creates an appropriate pared-down mod.

Like all matters software, it's possible, but I bet by the time we get anywhere near that stage, there's a new converter to make anyways.
 

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I am working on a converter mod (religions and cultures done!), but new countries are the last priority for the reason Id gave: thousands of new countries for the EU3, AND V2, AND HoI3 mods. That means thousands of flags, and thousands of slightly different colour choices. In V2 that means tens of thousands of new political parties, and in HoI3 that means hundreds and thousands of new political and military leaders. It would be a nightmare!
 

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Oh, but here's a crazy idea for a world where we've infinite man hours to develop with: the converter creates a file that can be used as input to some other program that creates an appropriate pared-down mod.

This is roughly the plan for V2ToHOI3. Leaders and so on need to be generated for the mod when the converter is run (not before), so we may as well only copy the countries that exist into the mod. Something similar could probably be done for the other converters.
 

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Recent CK2 versions have adopted a more modular approach to many of the files in the common folder, meaning there can be more than one file inside the common/traits folder containing trait data for example.
This is the reason the log currently spits out errors about traits 115 and 117, they are traits in the new 01_traits.txt file.

A quick fix would be to just tell the converter to process the 01_traits.txt file as well around line 64 of Convert.cpp.
To make the converter compatible with mods and future dlc and patches you will need to change how it builds trait and dynasty lists to iterate through any .txt files in the common/traits and common/dynasties folders (as well as any other common/ folders you will use). Lines 63-70 of Convert.cpp in particular, and possibly elsewhere.

Also, I am about to commit a new province mapping file which takes account of the provinces new in 1.06 and makes a few other changes.
 
Last edited:

bisthebis

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Hi ! i downloaded your converter (0.2C, good version ?) And i have a big problem : the converter is crashing !
But the log is useless :
Code:
Reading configuration file.
12-07-04 11:47:10: No input file given, defaulting to input.ck2
12-07-04 11:47:10: Getting CK2 data.
probconvck2eu3.png
 

unmerged(445458)

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Regarding the issue of consolidating vassals, I think a good guiding principle is that the starting map of EU3 should be able to have plausibly come from the converter. The starting map of EU3 has some vassals in it, but it's not completely flooded with them. There are plenty of sizable "blobby" nations. This seems inconsistent with requiring Absolute crown authority before vassals can be absorbed.

There are gameplay considerations (is a map full of OPM vassals actually any fun to play? I don't think so), and there are feasibility considerations (apparently there's a tag limit, so throwing in a ton of OPM vassals seems likely to send lots of savegames over the limit), but I think the faithfulness consideration is enough on its own.
 

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Regarding the issue of consolidating vassals, I think a good guiding principle is that the starting map of EU3 should be able to have plausibly come from the converter. The starting map of EU3 has some vassals in it, but it's not completely flooded with them. There are plenty of sizable "blobby" nations. This seems inconsistent with requiring Absolute crown authority before vassals can be absorbed.

There are gameplay considerations (is a map full of OPM vassals actually any fun to play? I don't think so), and there are feasibility considerations (apparently there's a tag limit, so throwing in a ton of OPM vassals seems likely to send lots of savegames over the limit), but I think the faithfulness consideration is enough on its own.
There's not so much a tag limit in eu3, as there was in older paradox games. But there are certain functions of the engine that check every tag against every other tag. So adding one or two extra tags doesn't change much, but with each extra tag the amount of slowdown increases exponentionally. (Rereading your post I realized you might've been talking about something else than the EU3 engine, in which case ignore this part! Just wanted to add the below regarding my 0.02 cents)

Seeing that. I think what might be a nice compromise is to add, let's say 4, 'blank' tags, that is a tag without a name or culture attached. These would be used to represent the four largest independant realms without corresponding EU3 tags (above a certain threshold). For me personally it would be fine if the tags would remain blank, so they'd just show up as "CK2 Nation 01-04" in game, as I would know how to mod in proper localization. Though it might also be possible to copy CK2's localization for that tag into the EU3 localization.
So, in case the above is too confusing. Say the Latin Empire formed in your game. Rather than merge the Latin Empire into the Byzantine Empire (which would be undesirable of the Byzantines were co-existing with the Latins in the save), instead the Latin Empire is converted into a 'C01' tag, and the converter adds a localization file for 'C01' that names it as the Latin Empire.

I'm suggesting this mostly from my own experience with converters and such. I am never annoyed if minor one-province counties dissappear, but what I really dislike is if major independant nations get absorbed because they don't have corresponding EU3 tags.
For example, if you end up with a divided France with the north being under the Kingdom of France, and the south under the Duchy of aquitaine. (Assuming no Aquitaine Tag) Many past converters would just auto-absorb Aquitaine into France. Which meant that one of the defining features of your save (that cool North vs South in France) just dissappeared into thin air.
I think those are the situations you want to avoid, more than just trying to properly represent each OPM. So I think just reserving 3 or 4 tags for big (semi-)independant nations that don't have EU3 equivalents will do fine, without causing unneeded slow-down.
 

Idhrendur

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There's not so much a tag limit in eu3, as there was in older paradox games. But there are certain functions of the engine that check every tag against every other tag. So adding one or two extra tags doesn't change much, but with each extra tag the amount of slowdown increases exponentionally. (Rereading your post I realized you might've been talking about something else than the EU3 engine, in which case ignore this part! Just wanted to add the below regarding my 0.02 cents)

Seeing that. I think what might be a nice compromise is to add, let's say 4, 'blank' tags, that is a tag without a name or culture attached. These would be used to represent the four largest independant realms without corresponding EU3 tags (above a certain threshold). For me personally it would be fine if the tags would remain blank, so they'd just show up as "CK2 Nation 01-04" in game, as I would know how to mod in proper localization. Though it might also be possible to copy CK2's localization for that tag into the EU3 localization.
So, in case the above is too confusing. Say the Latin Empire formed in your game. Rather than merge the Latin Empire into the Byzantine Empire (which would be undesirable of the Byzantines were co-existing with the Latins in the save), instead the Latin Empire is converted into a 'C01' tag, and the converter adds a localization file for 'C01' that names it as the Latin Empire.

I'm suggesting this mostly from my own experience with converters and such. I am never annoyed if minor one-province counties dissappear, but what I really dislike is if major independant nations get absorbed because they don't have corresponding EU3 tags.
For example, if you end up with a divided France with the north being under the Kingdom of France, and the south under the Duchy of aquitaine. (Assuming no Aquitaine Tag) Many past converters would just auto-absorb Aquitaine into France. Which meant that one of the defining features of your save (that cool North vs South in France) just dissappeared into thin air.
I think those are the situations you want to avoid, more than just trying to properly represent each OPM. So I think just reserving 3 or 4 tags for big (semi-)independant nations that don't have EU3 equivalents will do fine, without causing unneeded slow-down.

The tag limit we refer to is the number of tags in (unmodded) EU3. Many people don't like mods, it seems. A modded EU3 would have a higher limit, but as you point out, it eventually starts causing a notable slowdown.

I am toying with the idea of the converter also outputting a mod, or perhaps a file that another tool can use to make a correct mod. The only problem is that it's a lot of work. I've been working on the EU3 to V2 converter for over a year and a half, and it's still not quite done.

Though in any case, we will never absorb countries based on tag availability. Instead, we try to assign tags from the region that haven't been used (the details of that are in the country mapping rules), and finally use any leftover tags from anywhere in the world. If we run out of tags, we enforce stricter merging rules and start over.
 

Tijean

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Since the patch 1,6 it didn't seam to work anymore. The trait 113-120 seem bugging.

In my opinion, there should be no independant 1 count after convertion. Most of them should be probably be merge with the nearest count /duchy and form someting more plausible. But i'm not a scripter so i don't know if it possible.
 

Puking Panda

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Looks very nice, EU 3 and CK 2 are both awesome games, combining them is extremely cool, but I was just wondering a few things

1: How will the converter handle dynasties, for example, if I got my Karling dynasty ruling in my converted CK 2 save, will the leader of my country in EU 3 be of the Karling Dynasty too or will he get a new dynasty name generated?

2: If I change the files and have the Karling dynasty be called the Caroling dynasty, could it make the save corrupt?

3: Would the "Better Looking Characters" Mod work with the converter, sure it just changes only the portraits(which EU 3 lacks) but I noticed CK 2 saves with BLC being uncompatible with ones without BLC.

4: How will the Holy Roman Empire work, I am planning to end my save with a huge HRE, will the HRE in EU 3 just work normal, and the HRE factions under the Emperor in CK 2 will be independent in EU 3 but will be Imperial territory and members of the HRE(for example, I conquer Norway in CK 2 as the HRE, then I grant it to another person(making him kind of my underking), will Norway in EU 3 now be independant but as a member of the HRE and with it's provinces as imperial territory). Or will I just end up with 1 giant Holy Roman Empire country in EU 3. And if you make your HRE in CK 2 primogeniture, will it affect HRE in EU 3?

5. How will heresies be handled? Will they just be their parent religion in EU 3 or something else?

If someone would at least answer my third question, I will already be very happy(so I can at least know if I should start my new campaign with or without BLC)
 

Idhrendur

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Since the patch 1,6 it didn't seam to work anymore. The trait 113-120 seem bugging.

In my opinion, there should be no independant 1 count after convertion. Most of them should be probably be merge with the nearest count /duchy and form someting more plausible. But i'm not a scripter so i don't know if it possible.

Yep, known issue. I'll be back doing development after I get the latest EU3 to V2 version out, and that will be one of the first things I fix.

Also, I really don't like the idea of merging independent realms together. If they're independent, they should remain so. For as long as they can make it last in EU3, at least.
 

Idhrendur

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Looks very nice, EU 3 and CK 2 are both awesome games, combining them is extremely cool, but I was just wondering a few things

1: How will the converter handle dynasties, for example, if I got my Karling dynasty ruling in my converted CK 2 save, will the leader of my country in EU 3 be of the Karling Dynasty too or will he get a new dynasty name generated?

2: If I change the files and have the Karling dynasty be called the Caroling dynasty, could it make the save corrupt?

3: Would the "Better Looking Characters" Mod work with the converter, sure it just changes only the portraits(which EU 3 lacks) but I noticed CK 2 saves with BLC being uncompatible with ones without BLC.

4: How will the Holy Roman Empire work, I am planning to end my save with a huge HRE, will the HRE in EU 3 just work normal, and the HRE factions under the Emperor in CK 2 will be independent in EU 3 but will be Imperial territory and members of the HRE(for example, I conquer Norway in CK 2 as the HRE, then I grant it to another person(making him kind of my underking), will Norway in EU 3 now be independant but as a member of the HRE and with it's provinces as imperial territory). Or will I just end up with 1 giant Holy Roman Empire country in EU 3. And if you make your HRE in CK 2 primogeniture, will it affect HRE in EU 3?

5. How will heresies be handled? Will they just be their parent religion in EU 3 or something else?

If someone would at least answer my third question, I will already be very happy(so I can at least know if I should start my new campaign with or without BLC)

1. We convert names and dynasty names from your save.
2. Nope, we get the data from the CK2 install. If you change that data, we'll just get your changed data. Unless you mean editing the EU3 save. Which also wouldn't corrupt it, it's just written in there.
3. We don't look at the portraits at all, so it shouldn't affect anything.
4. We're still working out the details of how we'll do the HRE, but right now all immediate vassals of the HRE become independent and all HRE controlled territory become imperial territory. Succession type won't affect the HRE right now, and I'm not sure how we'll do things in the future.
5. The plan for unmodded EU3 is that they'll be heretic members of the parent religion (with some alternate ideas for when religious authority is low). There's also the beginnings of a converter mod that puts them all as independent religions in the same religious group.
 

Puking Panda

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Thanks for answering my all my questions so fast, just 1 last question, how will the English culture work when England stays(Anglo-)Saxon, will Saxons just be English or will they become Saxon, because I am pretty sure German Saxons of 1400 were quite different from the Enlish Saxons of 1066. And seeing how the English culture of 1400 is also quite a bit different from the Anglo Saxon culture, I am not sure how the Anglo-Saxons could realistically be imported to EU 3.(my guess is that you probably just make them English). Not to mention the flags would also be rather ahistorical(which is already the case in CK 2, but still).


First picture is the Lancaster-English flag, used in EU 3, the second picture is the Dragon of Wessex, the English coat of arms during Anglo-Saxon times, which should be the EU 3 flag if the Anglo Saxons won the Norman and Norwegian invasion of 1066.
ango-normandie flag.png
 

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