What can't be modelled with current client and feudatory mechanics?
The Case for, Eventually, China
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The game already runs 3-4 times slower than EU4 on speed 5. Enough provinces is enough.
If China and South East Asia could eventually added, IR will be the greatest classical era strategy game ever in history.
At the same time of Rise of Rome period is Warring State period in China.
Rome vs China in 1 AD will be fantastic for people who are arguing about Rome vs Han China.
At the same time of Rise of Rome period is Warring State period in China.
Rome vs China in 1 AD will be fantastic for people who are arguing about Rome vs Han China.
You dont care if your dream somehow come true.
Development of tech can help us in 1 or 2 years later too.
Almost everyone I've seen discuss it at a serious level puts the two as peers on roughly equal ground. There's almost no other way to describe the two great enduring empires of the classical era.
The OP makes a really good case for a full China scenario set in the IR time period. Also was very informative. I actually wish I knew more about Chinese history.
I'm not personally a fan of the idea of combining the Europa and Asia sides of the continent into one giant campaign map though. I'd prefer them as two separate campaigns. I just don't imagine the performance hit from almost doubling the size of the map (what you'd have to do in order to faithfully model China's neighborhood) would be worth it, especially when I doubt the Middle Kingdom and the Hellenic World would affect each other significantly in most games.
I'm not personally a fan of the idea of combining the Europa and Asia sides of the continent into one giant campaign map though. I'd prefer them as two separate campaigns. I just don't imagine the performance hit from almost doubling the size of the map (what you'd have to do in order to faithfully model China's neighborhood) would be worth it, especially when I doubt the Middle Kingdom and the Hellenic World would affect each other significantly in most games.
You don't need to double the size of the map to add China. China is not as Big as Europe, North Africa, India, Tibet, Arabia, Middle East, Central Asia and the Tarim Basin combined. You really overestimating China in this case. Especially during this era a lot of territories were sparesly populated and not that important. Manchuria? There wasn't much going on. Only the southern part would be important. South China? MOstly tribal. The really important area is the Yellow River Valley.
In no way you would need to double the size of the provinces. At MAX you would add maybe 50% of the current provinces.
We would tags up to and including Vietnam, some South Manchuria, Korea but Japan and the rest of Manchuria probably not.
Exactly. That's what I would do at least.for Vietnam maybe just northern Vietnam. The Funan Empire was the first real state in Cambodia/South Vietnam and Thailand.
Well mind that states are a bit of a high standard, given we already have Scandinavia and many granular chiefdoms.
The point is the current layout needs depth. China must not come out until existing countries get enough treatment, otherwise it will become a TW style expansion.
You should really look at a glove since time soon and compare it with the territory already in the game. Tibet already is in.
Adding China would mean adding perhaps 2 times of the territory of India and perhaps 1,5 times the population, nothing more. Not even in the same ballpark is doubling the game
In the China Three Kingdoms conversion mod they're working on, they've replaced the whole Imperator map with a giant China map as far as I've seen - so it could also be added as a game mode in the vanilla game instead of an addition to the map.
I want China but cutting it from the rest of the map is not what I want. If they make it a seperate map it should be a own game. I want a game featuring the whole old world.
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Now would be the best time to do it, too. All of those complaints about the current game being "shallow" means that if China were incorporated now, while the game structure is more sparse, it could be fleshed out gradually as the game undergoes the process of development in future years.
I swear, if Pdox ever makes a China focused game, I will make it my holy mission in life, I lay down an oath upon the honor of my noble ancestors, that I will carpet-comment the forum for that game with dozens of daily demands for the inclusion of the Faroe Islands!
Just kidding of course, carry on
Just kidding of course, carry on
I don’t have much to say because even I’m kinda of an history buff I don’t know much about early Chinese history, but I want to say that I really look forward to a China expansion! Thanks for all the info and all the effort you have put into this thread
Most of people dont know that Vietnam has a fascinating ancient history, real history, not myths.
The region in North Vietnam, Guangdong and Guangxi is an embryo of civilizations.
Vietnamese and South Chinese are origin of rice culture, with argued that they are one of the first people in human history knew agriculture and dosmetic cattles like pigs, dogs, goats, horse and cats.
They constructed terrace farms, much earlier than mesoamerican and south american.
They built ships that can travel across South East Asia Seas, and even migrate to Polynesia.
Track back to the history of civilization there, it is incredible.
Paleolithic
Sơn Vi culture (20,000–12,000 BC)
Mesolithic
Hoabinhian ((12,000–10,000 BC)
Neolithic
- Bắc Sơn culture (10,000–8,000 BC)
- Quỳnh Văn culture (8,000–6,000 BC)
- Đa Bút culture (4,000–3,000 BC)
- Phùng Nguyên culture (2,000–1,500 BC)
- Đồng Đậu culture (1,500–1,000 BC)
- Gò Mun culture (1,000–800 BC)
- Dong Son culture (1,000 BC–100 AD)
Iron Age
- Sa Huỳnh culture (1,000 BC–200 AD)
- Óc Eo culture (1–630 AD)
I swear, if Pdox ever makes a China focused game, I will make it my holy mission in life, I lay down an oath upon the honor of my noble ancestors, that I will carpet-comment the forum for that game with dozens of daily demands for the inclusion of the Faroe Islands!
Just kidding of course, carry on
If it's a game about a time period where China had all kinds of important trade routes to the Faroe Islands? Yes, by all means!
It would be shortchanging the setting to do otherwise.
This could just be a function of my unfamiliarity with the history of the region. When I look at the whole region, I imagine the addition would be immense. However, if you're saying it is only the heartlands and certain significant borderlands that are needed, then it is different I suppose.
There is a reason I wonder about these things though. I really would want enough of a challenge present in East Asia that a victorious China would still have threats to face in their own neighborhood (ie. the Xiong Nu the OP mentioned) rather than it just becoming a bizarrely ahistorical race to push west. Along the same token, how strong are the constituent kingdoms of the warring states period? What would the possible early game contests look like? Could there be conflicts across the Tarim basin between Bactria and whatever power controls the Xi prefecture?
I guess my concern is that enough of Asia is represented that China doesn't just function as an end-game boss for central asia or the west. Those outlaying areas can't be less significant than Britannia or Saxony during the era represented. I know that I would want the option of colonizing/civilizing those regions if I were playing a power in China.