The 'can't join war because it would destabilize' needs some serious adjustment

[byebytoad]

I declared (as Florence) an excommunication war against Provence and one of my allies didn't join just because they had military access to their lands (they had a bad opinion of them and they wanted their lands, no truce and no debts).

But after a few months...they declared war on them taking advantage of what I did.. this is stupid and needs some serious adjustment imo.

 

[Rocketskates]

military access should be one of the most weighted relation, who in their right mind would allow armies march into their lands(no compensation whatsoever) and it also looks stupid every war is another "Hannibal marches through Alps from Africa"

 

[EmagDrolBot]

military access should be one of the most weighted relation, who in their right mind would allow armies march into their lands(no compensation whatsoever) and it also looks stupid every war is another "Hannibal marches through Alps from Africa"

I recall a dev stated sometime that the reason military access is so easy to gain, is because it's a very gamey mechanic that wouldn't have existed at the time in reality. If an army wanted to march from A to B and tiny country C was in the middle, it doesn't really matter what tiny country C says. They can't exactly stop the army from just marching through anyway. There's also some enormous provinces in the game where an army would be able to march through without anyone even noticing.

Additionally the idea of Westphalian sovereignty didn't really exist for at least the first 200 years of the game. Borders were not fixed things and lands were controlled mostly by local lords who, again, couldn't really do anything about an army wandering past, nor would they necessarily want to.

 

[Elryos]

While I think that the complaint is valid, I have to admit that the AI behaved incredibly human in this case.

 

[mag_zbc]

Maybe the solution would be to keep military access (but without occupying relations slot), but allow an army to march anywhere? You'd just get a hit to opinion / diplomatic reputation for marching through country without asking for access.

 

[byebytoad]

military access should be one of the most weighted relation, who in their right mind would allow armies march into their lands(no compensation whatsoever) and it also looks stupid every war is another "Hannibal marches through Alps from Africa"

If that's the case, then why the same faction who refused to join the war because they had military access with the enemy, then declared war on them while having such a relation?

It would be ok if Burgundy just refused to join the war.
But I think you missed the point that 6 months later they declared war themselves on Provence.
And this without offering to join me in the war first.

I hope I described the situation clearly enough:
1- Octb 1512 I declare war on Provence, Burgundy my ally refuses to join becuase they have military access on their lands.
2-April 1513: while I was still at war with Provence, Burgundy declare war on Provence.
I'd like to underscore the fact that Burgundy :
A-Still had military access on them when declaring war.
B-Burgundy never offered to join my side during the 6 months ,not even the day before declaring war on Provence.

 

[Dominion]

one of my allies didn't join just because they had military access to their lands

If that's the case, then why the same faction who refused to join the war because they had military access with the enemy, then declared war on them while having such a relation?

That's hilarious. Completely forgot that bug still exists.
They took a stab hit when declaring. Check their overview
"It would destabilized them" is bugged beyond all hopes by the way. One of my favorite exploits and probably the only one I have used in more than two runs.

Maybe they'll fix it, maybe they won't. Until then I follow a simple rule:
If it's bugged and following the game's rules would hurt me I report it and turn the bug into an exploit out of spite until they fix it.

Not my problem if something that simple isn't high enough on their list and I won't let it ruin my games.

 

[HolyPire]

It would be cool when you could ask for military access, but most times the country would denie. Because armys mostly live out of the lands... Exception you have good relations with that country. But fun part would be to march that land anyway .... you basicly would risk that the coutry you march through would declare war on you or at least you get enormous attrition while marching there.

 

[Dominion]

It would be cool when you could ask for military access, but most times the country would denie. Because armys mostly live out of the lands... Exception you have good relations with that country. But fun part would be to march that land anyway .... you basicly would risk that the coutry you march through would declare war on you or at least you get enormous attrition while marching there.

An abstraction of that is already in the game. You get a modifier on relative army strength when asking for military access.

 

[byebytoad]

"It would destabilized them" is bugged beyond all hopes by the way. One of my favorite exploits and probably the only one I have used in more than two runs.

Out of curiosity how do you exploit it in your favor?

 

[Dominion]

Out of curiosity how do you exploit it in your favor?

Where should I start?

Don't want to show everything, but the most common way to use it is to wage war against the Ottoman empire and fight teeth and claws to get one of their provinces separated from the rest.

Next you give them mil acc and ignore them. If they ever declare on you they go in with -3 stab and you get a nice "revolts in Ottoman Empire" modifier towards your peacedeal soon.
Ottos refuse to convert anything early on and eat a lot of minors. Rebels will eat them alive, making any start close to them a lot easier.

Still trying to have rebels force convert them to Christian just for fun, but I haven't found the time to actively pursue it so far.

Another minor thing is they do not understand is that diplomatic ideas lower the impact on stability from decisions.
You can RM your biggest threat's ally and despite them having filled out diplomatic ideas they will never join a war against you.

Pretty hilarious considering another exploit is to continuously RM them and have them break the RM.

Free stab hits every ~10 years in exchange for one diplomat being occupied for ~3 years sounds like a good deal to me.
There's a ton of stuff in there. Not sure how much of it got fixed, but I just checked and can confirm at least the mil acc exploit is still alive and well.

I recommend figuring out most of them yourselves. You start focusing on your game a lot more and end up not needing any of them to succeed.

Great for RP games though if you don't want to do anything but fool around anyways.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Related: I should've taken a SS recently when Saxony dishonored a defensive alliance when Poland was attacked. But then the very next day they DoW'd somebody like Wurzburg (I think it was).

"No I'm not joining that war. I've got my own ideas about what warring I'll be doing.. and how exactly I'll be getting into it. -Thanks."

 

[Brynjar]

That's hilarious. Completely forgot that bug still exists.
They took a stab hit when declaring. Check their overview

The AI usually sits on military access a lot longer than necessary, but they do usually cancel it eventually if they don't need it. After canceling it you only need to wait a month to declare war wihtout getting any stab hits.

 

[Dominion]

The AI usually sits on military access a lot longer than necessary, but they do usually cancel it eventually if they don't need it. After canceling it you only need to wait a month to declare war wihtout getting any stab hits.

Only if their war is over. If you separate one of their provinces and they have to walk through you to get there they'll always ask for mil acc and never cancel it, giving you a massive stabhit against them should they ever declare.

"No I'm not joining that war. I've got my own ideas about what warring I'll be doing.. and how exactly I'll be getting into it. -Thanks."

Makes sense. I'd prefer fighting my own war over someone else's as well.
Modifiers for CtA and DoW are different. No mistery there.