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Naughtius Maximus

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I have only that DLC:
View attachment 452279
and the question of how to conveniently play on these DLC as Bizancjum / RE? Is there any way to safely play as Byzantine?
And second question: when we have maximum crown authority and maximum centralization and switch HRE to Primogeniture, can I safe reduce centralization without worrying about losing primogenitures?

Dunno about first question but for #2. Yes.

Primo is a succession law and is independent from centralization. You only need centralization to enact it. Having said that, you'll need to raise centralization again if you ever lose primo and want it back.
 

Kapitalisti

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If only Paradox had named the succession to something other than "elective". Cause in practice it's more like heir designation with extra red tape and intrigue. Now you get tons of people getting hung up on "OMG it was never an elective monarchy!" etc. I for one like the new system, it feels like I'm trying to wrangle an ancient, bloated, corrupt and, dare I say, byzantine system of government.
 

raistlin_wizard

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Except it was more a feature of Byzantine government than a bug like elsewhere.
More common? Probably. But the fact that there were coups doesn't make those kingdoms not primogeniture. And still, most successions in the Byzantium were father to son, and in those cases that weren't the new emperor usually tried to marry into the family of the last one for extra legitimacy. Dynasties still mattered.
 

Kumicho

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If only Paradox had named the succession to something other than "elective". Cause in practice it's more like heir designation with extra red tape and intrigue. Now you get tons of people getting hung up on "OMG it was never an elective monarchy!" etc. I for one like the new system, it feels like I'm trying to wrangle an ancient, bloated, corrupt and, dare I say, byzantine system of government.
Honestly, the only thing that would make it better would be "heir designation with civil war afterwards if you lose". Like the old "contest succession" CB that they used to have where you could contest the succession if you were the second or third in line for the throne (for only a certain period of time, 2 years maybe?).

But yes, currently playing as the Byzzies and having a blast with the new succession.
 

Narvait

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More common? Probably. But the fact that there were coups doesn't make those kingdoms not primogeniture. And still, most successions in the Byzantium were father to son, and in those cases that weren't the new emperor usually tried to marry into the family of the last one for extra legitimacy. Dynasties still mattered.
Fantastic idea for an event.
“People say you are not related to former Emperor, but that can be fixed:
Option 1 - I don’t care (-10 vassal opinion)
Option 2 - Divorce your wife and marry ex Emperor’s daughter (+ 5 vassal opinion, honored traditions)
Option 3 - Divorce and marry Emperor’s ex-wife (no short reign penalty)”

Similarly for not being/being Orthodox.
 

eskrgic

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If only Paradox had named the succession to something other than "elective". Cause in practice it's more like heir designation with extra red tape and intrigue. Now you get tons of people getting hung up on "OMG it was never an elective monarchy!" etc. I for one like the new system, it feels like I'm trying to wrangle an ancient, bloated, corrupt and, dare I say, byzantine system of government.

Well Basil didn't need to bribe half the Empire to designate Leo as his successor. It's a dumb and poorly executed system. What really should happen is use the co Emperor title to designate your successor. At some point I remember you could actually do that in CK2
 

Lysistrata

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Well Basil didn't need to bribe half the Empire to designate Leo as his successor. It's a dumb and poorly executed system. What really should happen is use the co Emperor title to designate your successor. At some point I remember you could actually do that in CK2

Shameless plug, but I've just released a co-emperor submod for HIP. It doesn't quite guarantee succession, but +50 elector score for a co-emperor's not exactly insignificant either.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/submod-zeto-e-basilisses.1154456/
 

Castimirr

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If only Paradox had named the succession to something other than "elective". Cause in practice it's more like heir designation with extra red tape and intrigue. Now you get tons of people getting hung up on "OMG it was never an elective monarchy!" etc. I for one like the new system, it feels like I'm trying to wrangle an ancient, bloated, corrupt and, dare I say, byzantine system of government.

I actually don't mind the general concept and a lot of the mechanics around succession. I do think you are right that people get a bit too hung up on trying to put it into a particular box when it is really a hybrid of heir-designation and elective. I do think it probably needs some adjustments, but that's generally true of new features. I really like that it doesn't weight electors the same.

My main issues with the changes are the things that lock you into specific decisions; being forced to use landed commanders; being absolutely locked into one succession type, especially since it prevents you from really using one of the best features of Hellenic. (I only see the Hellenic thing as an issue because it is so tightly tied to the ERE and the restored Roman Empire. I wouldn't care if it was just blocking a weird but potentially powerful combination.)

I would much prefer something more like the way powerful vassals and council decisions work in Conclave. You can put them on the council or not, there is just a significant but manageable penalty for not doing the correct/traditional thing (according to the in-game "culture" anyway). You can ignore your council voting against something, but it has a price. In the end, it is up to you to decide if the price is worth it based on your current situation. Neither option is always the correct/optimal choice, so it makes it an interesting mechanic. Even if it were harder to do than switching off Princely Elective as the HRE and caused your vassals to want to constantly faction and conspire to restore it.

The commander thing is almost (but admittedly, not quite) as bad as not being able to designate flank commanders with Autonomous Vassals when the game was young. I tend to not use landed commanders because they constantly want to leave my army to go lead their own armies and it gets annoying having to reassign them after every battle/siege. Also, I find it fun and satisfying to find a good commander and figure out a way to get them to join me. Being able to gain enough land to continually land new ones isn't terribly sustainable, especially if your commanders die often but have any family to inherit it (so you don't get it back). Something like being able to grant a barony as a viceroy might make that a lot more manageable.
 

Vortex_13

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You can buy favors from electors and force them to vote for your candidate. That's how I usually do it. Stack your council with non-king tier courtiers and you should be able to do that pretty easily.
 

Castimirr

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Aren't baronies pretty much viceroys already? At the very least, I'm sure they don't go out of their way to marry.

Yes, but if they have existing family members it tends to prefer to use those as their heirs (unless something makes them an invalid candidate of course). It will try to give it to their father or brothers before returning it to the liege. Not an issue with generated courtiers but it is an issue with recruiting characters from existing families.
 

Guthix

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Honestly, the only thing that would make it better would be "heir designation with civil war afterwards if you lose". Like the old "contest succession" CB that they used to have where you could contest the succession if you were the second or third in line for the throne (for only a certain period of time, 2 years maybe?).

But yes, currently playing as the Byzzies and having a blast with the new succession.
What's amazing is the Byzantine succession has made playing exclusively vassal rulers the funnest it's ever been. A seat on the council or a status as a commander is all you need to make the empire do exactly what you want it to do without having to deal with keeping everyone happy yourself.

You get to actually have an active role in imperial corruption.
 

holyvigil

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I hate this new succession law. Nothing like having a run of 200 years of success then an old ruler dies your planned heir succeeds to the throne then he gets assassinated and in less than 5 years time the empire you planned and worked hard for gets ruined by the ai as the council takes over, horrible laws get passed, civil wars, and invasions rip it apart and all you get to do is watch it happen as you seeth with furry in your attempt to retake the throne until you decide to quit.
 

tului

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I despise the new succession. I wouldn't mind if it was changeable, even if they put an extreme malus on council voting yes on it, just make it dmn possible.
 

Rhone

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I hate this new succession law. Nothing like having a run of 200 years of success then an old ruler dies your planned heir succeeds to the throne then he gets assassinated and in less than 5 years time the empire you planned and worked hard for gets ruined by the ai as the council takes over, horrible laws get passed, civil wars, and invasions rip it apart and all you get to do is watch it happen as you seeth with furry in your attempt to retake the throne until you decide to quit.

So imperial elective allowed you to have 200 years of success, that was then briefly interrupted by an historically plausible succession crisis?!

What are those losers at Paradox thinking?! Please give us succession laws for the ERE that only allow endless success for players.

On a more serious note....imperial elective is fun, allows you to nominate your best potential heir, and is easy to manipulate when it's not working in your favour. Bribe, baptize your kids, sack powerful commander candiadates and your chosen one shall inherit with relative ease.

I find it makes for much more stable realms than primo as your infant son has no chance of inheriting unless you make the silly move of nominating him. Pick a friendly uncle while he grows up...job done.
 
Last edited:

holyvigil

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So imperial elective allowed you to have 200 years of success, that was then briefly interrupted by an historically plausible succession crisis?!

What are those losers at Paradox thinking?! Please give us succession laws for the ERE that only allow endless success for players.

I don't know about endless success but give us back the laws we had because that 's what they were.
 

Narvait

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Just focus on your kingdom and treat Emperorship as a bonus.