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Razormaid

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Okay, so I have dumped MANY hours and attempts at getting this achievement. I have played through about 6-8 hours worth of attempts using the most updated version of the game (as of this thread) with Conclave DLC (and Conclave Pack) active, everything having been in vain. While Googling for advice, I have come across two notable guides, one on Steam's Community Guides: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=243061881 , and the other on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/comments/2smp43/the_completely_logical_invasion_of_england_a/.

The largest issue, at first, I ran into was that the Conclave patch completely changed the "conscript merchant ships" decision; a wholly necessary decision. Somehow it's not available when you declare war on a ruler who's lands are not contiguously connected to your own (i.e. for island hopping). Because of this I had to rollback to patch 2.4.5, pre-Conclave so the decision was available.

Using the information from both guides, I began as Hasteinn Hasteining in Nantes on the 867 Viking Age bookmark. Before pressing unpause, I divorced my wife, educated my only son to whatever Norse courtier had Midas Touch or at least Naive Appeaser, changed feudal taxation to large, played around with my council to ensure I had the best people appointed, set my ambition to Paragon of Virtue and took the Hunting focus, and then immediately Conquest DoW Cagliari (Sardinia). From there, I did the same to Chandax (Crete), and then to Aydhab (Northern Red Sea/Abyssinia). In order to have access to ships for raiding, I made sure to have Hasteinn lead my armies and be stationed in Aydhab. I then Conquest DoW Arborea (the other Sardinian province), took the conscript merchant ships decision, loaded up as close to 2000 warriors as possible (the conscript decision only gives you 20 ships), sailed up the Indus, and raided Nandana and Bhera to secure a Hindu woman for a concubine. I was lucky enough to capture two Hindu women raiding Bhera after being unsuccessful in Nandana.

20160423221553_1.jpg


The key to the early portions of this strategy is to be as absolutely quick as you can because Hasteinn is middle aged and there is always the looming threat that Anjou, Italy, West Francia, or the Byzantines will DoW you for their de jure land. Also, both guides pick something other than Hindu because Buddhist and Jain offer better stability and flexibility than Hindu. I chose Hindu because, 1) I am also going to try from the Kali Maaa achievement, 2) seeing that I am going to be constantly at war, the Hindu Holy War CB + holy order mercs are going to be needed, and 3) the Hindu provinces I raided are either very small or are OPMs, whereas locations with the two other religions are larger and further away. Another early problem I faced was becoming unlucky and not securing Indian women for concubines BEFORE the Arborea War warscore was at -100%, leaving me stranded and resulting in a total restart.O

After securing two newly minted Hindu concubines, I sailed back to Aydhab, received an event message explaining that one of my concubines was pregnant with my child (I see you wasted no time, Hasteinn...), walked up to the Mediterranean, sailed to Arborea, and steamrolled the ruler. At that point, Carlu's Steam guide suggests handing out the landed titles to individual unlanded courtiers so that they are independent, freeing you of any threat of war from envious neighbors. Hasteinn is a warrior leader with a high martial stat, but a low stewardship stat, so you wouldn't be able to hang onto those lands without going over your demesne. I lowered my levies, handed out titles to all lands except Nantes, and sailed back home. The pregnant concubine delivered a stillborn daughter, but survived herself.

I followed Carlu's advice and waited to convert. However, I immediately started educating my son with the better of the two Hindu women for a chance of the religion flip.

20160423224051_1.jpg


A huge challenge to establishing a beachhead somewhere on the British Isles using the "prepared invasion" CB is a trifecta of stressful problems. First you need to pick a minor kingdom that you can conquer quickly, doesn't have allies (or has weak ones), but still big enough to make an impact for your future wars. All of my attempts that came this far saw a slew of weird blobs in England and Scotland. Secondly, for whatever reason, EVERY TIME I tried to PI a part of England, I felt like I was fighting a losing Crusade because *every* Christian ruler on the British Isles eventually joined against me and I got gangbanged. Thirdly, is the issue of how many troops one receives during the two years before the PI is exhausted (pre-DoW). I couldn't manage to dig up definitive information, other than from the wikis that explains that the number of troops scales (http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Casus_Belli#Prepared_Invasion), but doesn't give number ranges.

Despite numerous failed attempts, I decided to bypass English territories and go for Scotland. During the pre-war PI period, I collected around 4k troops. For extra insurance, I hired the Irish Band and the various, small merc bands. I still managed to hang on to about 900+ special event troops that Hasteinn begins the game with. So, with all of those troops, plus my levies, I managed to scrounge up slightly less than 9000 men. I DoWed Scotland, landed my troops at Fife, sieged most of it, saw that the Scottish army moved from neighboring Gowrie and moved my troops there. But before I could complete the initial siege, the Scottish army moved to Fife to de-siege it, and then I pounced them, almost completely stack-wiping them. I made sure to keep checking the war info panel so that I wouldn't blindsight myself to another gangbang. The Irish OPMs started to trickle in as my army was crushing the Scottish, but was whittling down my own. I got lucky during what seemed like the last resisting push, and took the Scottish King as a hostage during the battle. Immediately suing for peace, Scotland was now MINE (finally...)!

After all of the attempts, curses, and a few gallons of quality hefeweizen, I decided that the moment after acquiring Scotland, but before anything else, I would just save my game and walk away from it, saving it for another day. The few weeks since that point, I've both dreaded playing again from having the game troll me with the inevitable negative events, rebellions/revolts, greedy neighbors, or simply operator errors, and have been devising stratagems, strategies, and theorycrafting my next moves. This is where I can very much use the community's advice.
 

Razormaid

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As of right now, the game is at 3 March, 878. Hasteinn is 55 years old, my son is 11, and my concubines are 26 & 27. Both my son and myself are still Unreformed Pagan. All of my Scottish holdings are in my possession, and I still have Nantes. I switched my focus to Family for the associated benefits (especially +health), and have also previously achieved the Paragon of Virtue ambition. The haps on the Birttish Isles are as follows:

- A portion of southern Scotland, east-central Ireland, and the Isle of Mann is ruled by an independent Norse Pagan
- An independent Scottish ruler has a two-county blob of southern Scotland, sandwiched between the above ruler's lands
- England is a huge Norse Pagan blob that also has a decent portion of land in Danemark
- Wessex is a decent sized petty kingdom still
- Cornwall, East Anglia, and Wales still exist all as two-county entities (four blobs in total)
- Ireland is still a collection of OPMs (except Mide, which has two counties).
- Orkney and the other northern Scottish island are both a part of the Kola kingdom (northernmost Sweden - not pictured)

20160423222839_1_1.jpg


20160423222844_1.jpg


20160423231730_1.jpg



Before I do anything, I plan on converting to Hinduism (having Kali be my patron deity), using the "Create Vassal" option on all holdings, and hope my son converts or becomes of age so I can force him to convert. But, where should I go from here? I'll have access to the holy war CB and the Hindu holy order troops, but whom should I attack, and how aggressive (timewise) should I be with my expansion? I was thinking about gobbling up Jarl Ivar's blob (Southern Scotland), but I don't like the chance that the other Norse Pagans jumping in. I could attack any of the Christian rulers, but I'd still potentially face a large defensive force. At some point, I should prolly give the Nantes province away to an unlanded courtier for its independence and one less headache for me.

My goal is to hopefully keep holy warring the smaller entities until Norse Pagan England is consumed in a huge revolt. If I can achieve the Britannia Empire, I plan to move my capital to once of the larger English counties to flip to Anglo-Saxon culture and start conquesting Saxony for the Saxons Everywhere, Unite! achievement. With some luck, I might get a king as a hostage for Kali Maa, as well.

Some advice is definitely needed & greatly appreciated!
 
Last edited:

Razormaid

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I just double checked the wiki for the "Saxons Everywhere, Unite!," and it turns out that it will not be a possibility as Saxony doesn't exist anymore, unless it breaks off or is released by its overlord. It's a shame, but I s'pose it saves me countless rebellions in the future when my lands are basically a mishmashed, cultural grab bag, while my vassals are all Hindu Norse, and I am Hindu Angle-Saxon.

One question I have is: when I captured the Scottish king, could I have converted to Hindu and made Kali my deity, and have then sacrificed the king to Kali before the war was over? In all previous games, whenever I captured the enemy ruler, I would peace out with that ruler and he would be released from my custody. If I sacrificed him while there was still a war taking place, would that automatically end the war, and would it be in my favor (meaning I win the war)?
 
Last edited:

kmh42

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Stay Norse and go raiding! Build up you demesne and slowly eat up all weak neighbors.
Beware Ireland! Those tribal counties are not worth owning but they have high revolt risk, especially the Irish Liberation is dangerous and you already have to fear the Scottish one.
Maybe ally the English Norse or make a NAP at least, so you are save from him or he can help you.
 

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Stay Norse and go raiding! Build up you demesne and slowly eat up all weak neighbors.
Beware Ireland! Those tribal counties are not worth owning but they have high revolt risk, especially the Irish Liberation is dangerous and you already have to fear the Scottish one.
Maybe ally the English Norse or make a NAP at least, so you are save from him or he can help you.
You can raid as a Hindu, you know.
 

Sonmi

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If you're willing to cheese it...

Simply unite Great Britain from within, as any of the British characters, then send your child to be educated with the Heritage/Faith focus by an Indian mercenary found in the character finder, mercenaries/holy orders can be interacted with from anywhere on the map.

There, no need for snatching an Indian concubine from across the world.
 

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from anywhere on the map.


Wow, I didn't know that part! In the past I've been turning Pictland Scottish very very quickly when I play there using the Scottish Merc's as tutors though :)
 

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Maybe ally the English Norse or make a NAP at least, so you are save from him or he can help you.

Just to be clear, I am playing this on patch 2.4.5, pre-Conclave, so there are no non-aggression pacts. I had to rollback to patch 2.4.5 to be able to use the "conscript merchant ships" decision.

If you're willing to cheese it...

Simply unite Great Britain from within, as any of the British characters, then send your child to be educated with the Heritage/Faith focus by an Indian mercenary found in the character finder, mercenaries/holy orders can be interacted with from anywhere on the map.

There, no need for snatching an Indian concubine from across the world.


That's an interesting way, but on my last playthrough as the Irish, I don't recall ever seeing Indian mercenaries available (I'll have to double-check; never tried looking for the random Indian person through character finder)
 

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That's an interesting way, but on my last playthrough as the Irish, I don't recall ever seeing Indian mercenaries available (I'll have to double-check; never tried looking for the random Indian person through character finder)

You're right, they aren't available, as I said, you need to peruse the character finder for an Indian mercenary captain.

Male only, Ruler only, ordered by religion, and it shouldn't be too long until you find the Indian you're looking for.
 

kmh42

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I did this one the old fashioned way, started as a count in India and holy warred my way to England!

Also had one of my coolest rulers ever: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=386778083

What a guy... got the strong trait during a hunting event and there he was, slaying tigers with his infirm hands at the age of 69.

I also did it this way once. It took me 600 years

Just to be clear, I am playing this on patch 2.4.5, pre-Conclave, so there are no non-aggression pacts. I had to rollback to patch 2.4.5 to be able to use the "conscript merchant ships" decision.

Oh yeah sorry
 

Razormaid

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The above playthrough was lost for two main reasons:

  1. There was a random event in the middle of that playthrough that gave three options to either become zealous, lose prestige, or lose more prestige. I took the option to become a zealot (as an unreformed pagan). Having the zealous trait completely bars you from converting to your concubine's religion, but does allow you to convert to your capital county's religion. So, no Indian religion.
  2. If after you become a Paragon of Virtue you take the ambition to become king of Brittany, you cannot move your capital. I mistakenly chose that ambition. What this means is that Anjou or West Francia outright WILL either holy war or de jure war you (usually the former in my experiences). Also, whatever land you managed to conquer within the British Isles is going to suffer from foreign rulership malus.


So I scrapped that save file with another few attempts today. I have to say, the previous successful guides out there, including the ones I posted, are either done previous to patch 2.4.5 where the mechanics, levies, PI CB troops, etc. were completely different, or those players were playing on non-ironman and used console commands. Here's why:

- My second attempt today saw a nigh-God game where I had a siege leader commander leading my armies, nearly every siege resulted in acquiring of ransom-able hostages, and I managed to snag two Hindu women as hostages on my first Indian siege. Once all of the set-pieces were in place, I had about 950 gold, about 1200+ starting event troops left, and PIed Scotland again. I only received about 1000 PI troops the day before the PI limit was up. I won, converted to Hinduism, moved my capital to Gowrie, and handed out titles via "create new vassal." Then, and only then, did I realize it wasn't going to work because:

  1. All of your main holdings are tribal forts, you are feudal, and you do not possess the requisite technology & upgrades to upgrade those tribal forts to castles.
  2. You do not possess enough land to create the actual Kingdom of Scotland title, which means you cannot land out counties because they will be independent. The counties that you don't hand out are all of the wrong holding type (i.e. tribal forts) and will suffer penalties. You could immediately create a duchy title to become a petty kingdom, and then hand out titles, but you are still suffering from tribal holdings penalties.
  3. When you are successful in your PI, not all of the bishoprics will be empty to fill them with Hindu priests, which means a good amount of revoking titles, and a huge net lose to vassal opinions. (disregard this, and read my posts below)
  4. Good luck trying to Holy War anybody. Even if you are successful fending yourself from the gang rape (because MANY rulers jump in against you), Jorvik (the big Norse blob in England) is an opportunist and will Conquest CB you.
  5. Despite the encouraging words in some of the British Raj guides, the Hindu Holy Order in my games have been utterly inferior with their paltry ~250 troops. Whether or not this is due to other Hindu ruler using them and depleting their numbers, they scale with the hiring ruler's demense, or they are straight up puny in numbers naturally, I cannot say. Also, they are expensive to maintain (+21 gold per month). (disregard this, and read my posts below. The holy order troops can be wonky for whatever reason; most likely someone used them and the order got disintegrated)

My above experiences also apply if you PI Ireland.

With Scotland and Ireland out, you only have Cornwall, two petty kingdoms in Wales, Essex, Wessex, and Mercia to really choose from. All of the Norse rulers in the area are invalid PI targets (you have to target non-unreformed pagans). Cornwall sucks because it's two counties. One of the Welsh petty kingdoms is death sentence because they have powerful allies. Mercia and Wessex are out because they will hammer you with about +10k troops collectively, and Essex is a joke two-county area that will be Conquest CB bait.


This achievement is a joke...
Unless the mechanics were totally different in pre-2.4.5, the only two viable way to really get it are the extremely long way, conquering all the way from India proper, or to use Somni's method and conquer the British Isles and look under the character finder from an Indian women courtier that you can invite to your court. I still have my completed Irish empire game to verify, and there are Indian people available to invite (I couldn't convert in this save file because my last ruler was zealous, ugh). The one issue with Somni's method is that you have to have a large, late-game empire to be able to reach viable courts to smooth-talk viable Indian women.
 
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Razormaid

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Just for the sake of completeness, I have another save file where I played as Jorvik starting in the Viking Age in hopes using Somni's method. For the most part, I have been very successful conquering most of England, Scotland, Wales, and few counties in Ireland. In this game, Jorvik's ruler is in his late-50s, and I managed to create the Kingdom of Wales so that my realm doesn't split from the eventual gavelkind succession (though I was lucky due to one of my three starting sons dying). The foreseeable problems are going to be converting to Christianity because large unreformed pagan realms being highly unstable, the high possibility of not being able to reform, the loss of all of the unreformed pagan CBs, the fact that unreformed pagan priests have a very low chance to flip a county's religion, unreformed paganism begins to have an abyssal technology gain rate as time progresses, and the fact that even if I conquer the complete British Isles and convert to whatever religion (most likely Christianity because I cannot coax viable Indian women from foreign courts until later in the game), ALL of my vassal will be different religion, ergo a massive malus of different religion, and the trumped up unreformed pagan short reign penalty.


*EDIT* A Jorvik start is feasible granted you have the political reach to be able to Conquest CB Cagliari.
 
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Dragatus

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I got the achievement by starting a Byzantine game in 867, conquering the entire world except southern India (ran out of time for that), then moving my capital to a Jain county, and converting to local religion.

Of course the obvious downside is that this method is very time consuming (it took me nearly 6 centuries of game time and likely more than 60 hours of real time) and may not be worth it if all you want is to unlock British Raj. Though I also got Prester John, Pentarch, Legacy of Rome, SPQR, And Stay Out!, Medieval Schlieffen, The Frisian Coast is Long, Beyond the Indus, Saint Thomas's Dream, Looking East and West, Protector of the Holy Places, What Schism?, Red Sea Resort, United the Kingdoms, and Persistent Survivor in the same game so it was well worth it.

The easiest way to get just British Raj might be to start as Ivar the Boneless, become a merchant republic (to avoid gavelkind issues while keeping Pagan religion), conquer Britain with the help of your 6K event troops, and only then make your way to raid India.
 
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Sonmi

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This achievement is a joke...
Unless the mechanics were totally different in pre-2.4.5, the only two viable way to really get it are the extremely long way, conquering all the way from India proper, or to use Somni's method and conquer the British Isles and look under the character finder from an Indian women courtier that you can invite to your court. I still have my completed Irish empire game to verify, and there are Indian people available to invite (I couldn't convert in this save file because my last ruler was zealous, ugh). The one issue with Somni's method is that you have to have a large, late-game empire to be able to reach viable courts to smooth-talk viable Indian women.

Quick correction:

You do not have to have a large empire, seeing as to how all Mercenary companies are reachable through the character finder, and it doesn't require you to invite a female Indian courtier (who you rarely find hanging around with Mercs), you simply send your child to be educated by the mercenaries (with Heritage/Faith focus with Conclave).

You can end up with an Indian heir shortly after the earliest start date, even if you start on the other side of the map.

Finding a mercenary leader in the character finder can be a bit tedious, but if you keep in mind that they are all male, dharmic, duke-level, and have unique titles (such as Grandmaster) it goes a bit faster.
 
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Razormaid

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Quick correction:

You do not have a large empire, seeing as to how all Mercenary companies are reachable through the character finder, and it doesn't require you to invite a female Indian courtier (who you rarely find hanging around with Mercs), you simply send your child to be educated by the mercenaries (with Heritage/Faith focus with Conclave).

You can end up with an Indian heir shortly after the earliest start date, even if you start on the other side of the map.

Finding a mercenary leader in the character finder can be a bit tedious, but if you keep in mind that they are all male, dharmic, duke-level, and have unique titles (such as Grandmaster) it goes a bit faster.

Thanks for clarifying that. Definitely helpful details you've provided.


GREAT NEWS! I finally found a working/viable strategy for establishing Hæsteinn's dynasty & beachhead on the British Isles! And to think, all of my attempts and that the other guides out there were doing it completely bass ackwards. (I apologize for not having a detailed, AAR-quality, photo log. I was still testing some theories when I was finally successful)


Instead of beginning the game by island hopping, securing Indian concubine(s), and then targeting a ruler for a prepared invasion (PI), you basically reverse the order. After yesterday's fruitless attempts, I started creating a few other game attempts as the other, non-pagan, leaders; specifically Mercia and Wessex. The issues with both of those petty kingdoms are that they are both begin the game amidst two wars against the two other Norse Pagans present. The Jorvik War always ends up winning Northumbria, while the other war always ends up losing to you. But, Jylland, a separate Norse Pagan group, always targets the player with a large (10k+) PI, making your game almost completely futile. I tested a few other, non-contextual, rulers to basically sit on the bleachers and watch what happens to whom to get a better grasp on the political climate of the area. It must be hard-coded in the game that Jylland will PI the player if they are either Wessex or Mercia, because all other test games (as inconsequential people, like a random count somewhere in West Francia) that I played I watched all of the above parties, and based based upon my observations, Jylland never PIs anyone on the British Isles, Wessex and Mercia are generally both victorious in both starting wars (though sometimes Jorvik is greedy and takes a few bites out of Mercia), and Wessex and Mercia, generally speaking, don't experience much resistance for a while, thereby allowing their coffers and levies to recuperate.

However, Wessex and Mercia both throw away their armies in both starting wars (in every tested game). This got my really thinking because if you start off as Hæsteinn, do the whole island hop -> raiding -> PI, enough time will have passed for both Wessex and Mercia to recover their complete levy limits and have leftover cash for mercs. Ergo, they steamroll you. But, if you begin as Hæsteinn and target either Wessex or Mercia, their levies are almost completely exhausted (on average, my test games saw both entities possessing ~500 troops) by the end of the two-year pre-war PI term, leaving you to steamroll them.

Either target has their pros/cons. Wessex has more sea access, but is a constant target of raiding Norsemen, and isn't sandwiched between anyone. Mercia really only has to counties with sea access, but doesn't get hit that often by raiding parties, and unfortunately is sandwiched between other domains. I personally chose Wessex. Once you have secured either petty kingdom, then you begin the island hopping & raiding. Just make sure that once you capture Cagliari, give an unlanded courtier Nantes and immediately grant them independence. Do the same thing to Cagliari once you have Chandax, and so on.

I raided the same areas as I described in the previous posts, but I did try to branch out some and raided the southwestern-most Buddhist island province (forget the name), but wasn't successful securing some ladies for Hæsteinn's conscripted pimp yachts. I was successful on my first siege of the aforementioned Hindu areas. Some key details if you plan on going Hindu:

  • When you convert, you are literally caste-less. There is a decision to become Kshatriya caste (http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Decisions#Become_Kshatriya), but the decision costs scale with your tax base (more land=more taxes, so don't conquer too much more land after acquiring your British beachhead), and it will give those that changed castes a permanent -30 opinion malus (http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Indian_religions#Caste_system). The costs are much cheaper if you have a learning score of at least 12. You have to do this in order to marry!
  • Giving away counties requires you to have a valid Kshatriya courtier. More than likely, your court will be empty of those. So, every time to divvy out county titles, you have to spend money via the "invite nobleman to court" decision.
  • You should choose the "invite a holy many to court" decision after converting to replace your court chaplain. Then do the "search for a guru" decision (I got a guru with 32 learning on the first shot).
  • Try to demand religion conversion decision on everyone with your microcosm. If they refuse, start revoking titles (it's a free, non-malus inducing decision for anyone not Hindu!). It was ridiculously easy for me as every revoked title saw no revolt or conflict.
  • In the beginning, you should use the "change religious branch" decision, and choose Vashnavism for the +5 vassal opinion.
  • You should also use the "choose a patron deity" decision to whatever you want. There are six deities to choose from, each offering a +1 to one stat, and a -1 to another.
  • The holy order is actually pretty awesome. They are expensive with a cost of ~240-280 karma/piety, with a scalable upkeep of ~24-30 gold per month (scales with unit size). You can expect the order to have 9k-10+k troops. Really baffled as to what happened in my previous games where the holy order only had ~200 troops.

Though I have not yet acquired this achievement, and don't have screen shots for every step of the way, I would still like to present Ragnarr, son of Hæsteinn the Victorious, the first of his name, Conqueror of the Realm:

20160506134932_1.jpg


That's right. Everything in red that says England is MINE. And for good measure, here's a shot of my province conversion flipping:

20160506135329_1.jpg



I'll report back later after I've made more progress.