The British Empire and India

[cliffordhud]

Did I read somewhere that the British Empire does not control India in HOI4?

That does seem very strange to me.

(On the same theme will there be an option to play as the Commonwealth? - as was done in the real thing...)

 

[Laexio]

someone played as the commonwealth in the real war?

 

[Denkt]

India will be a puppet to UK. This should make UK somewhat weaker.

 

[theJ]

...or possibly stronger - since the Indian provinces will actually, y'know, DO THINGS this time around.
Hell, even the African ones seem to be getting factories - can you imagine? The african theater MIGHT BE MEANINGFUL this time around!

 

[Sleight of Hand]

British India mobilized almost three million men in WW2, so I hope the AI is actually able to build and use plenty of divisions, and - importantly - move them around (Egypt, England, Australia if the Japs invade it, etc.) as needed.

 

[Will Steel]

Did I read somewhere that the British Empire does not control India in HOI4?

That does seem very strange to me.

(On the same theme will there be an option to play as the Commonwealth? - as was done in the real thing...)

How is that strange? India was a separate territory with separate government, administration and military...called the "Indian Empire" by the Britons and "British Raj" by the Indians. They were like other Commonwealth countries and were independent in name, except that they had little autonomy compared to those countries, Britons kept a tight control on the economy, Indians were not allowed a single voice, all politicians and officers were Britons.

That's why they start off as a puppet of Britons, that is how it was historically and that is how it should be in the game.

 

[Jeremy971]

Can we fight for an independent India ? And kick Brits out ?

I will rocket these goddamn imperialists !

Mysorean rockets
Mysorean rockets were the first iron-cased rockets successfully deployed for military use. Hyder Ali, the 18th century ruler of Mysore, and his son and successor, Tipu Sultan used them effectively against the British East India Company. Their conflicts with the company exposed the British to this technology, which was then used to advance European rocketry with the development of the Congreve rocket.

 

[Will Steel]

With this army of course:

This was one of the last Mughal armies before it was destroyed by Britons.

And it should have Zamburak cavalry in the field, and the gigantic Jaivana cannon that should fire nukes.

And of course the most OP weapon should be the classic Indian 'tank':

Those Panzers and T-34s don't stand a chance!

On a more serious note: Indian independence should be in the game, and there should be multiple routes to it because that is how it was in reality. This can be a topic by itself.

 

[Jeremy971]

New panzers in HOI 4 ?

 

[aitaituo]

How is that strange? India was a separate territory with separate government, administration and military...called the "Indian Empire" by the Britons and "British Raj" by the Indians. They were like other Commonwealth countries and were independent in name, except that they had little autonomy compared to those countries, Britons kept a tight control on the economy, Indians were not allowed a single voice, all politicians and officers were Britons.

That's why they start off as a puppet of Britons, that is how it was historically and that is how it should be in the game.

A puppet makes a lot of sense for depicting the Raj. The real question, to me, is whether anyone playing Comintern or Axis should always try to launch a coup in India for their ideology. It seems like taking out India would be the key to defeating the British outside the European theater. IIRC, Gandhi publicly said India joining the Axis would be a pretty great way to get independence.

 

[jamesd]

I'm happy that India will be a puppet, but my question is how the manpower for its army will work. In many Indian divisions, British battalions and regiments accounted for up to 1/3 of the sub units, but as the war went on the number of British units declined as more Indians were recruited and British manpower limitations began to bite.

 

[RMS Gigantic]

I really like the puppet system in general, especially when the developers apply the system to states that initially many of us think of as simply a part of a more powerful nation (especially since puppets are thought of as more of a fascist or communist thing), only to realize with some further research and thought that the puppet description, especially in terms of HoI4's mechanics, pretty much describes the relationship between the two countries.

Aside from India as discussed in this thread, there's also the Philippines during the game's time frame: the place was thought of as American soil until it became independent in 1946, but by 1935 it had a transitional government with the agreement to eventually become an independent nation.

 

[fillap]

I do hope they manage to get this right in this game. Playing Britain in any of the previous HOI games has alway been quite annoying to me. Key to this is the strength and weakness caused by the Empire which none really seem to have nailed for me. It's been a while but either HOI 2 or 3 seemed to think it was a grand Idea to send my entire supply stock pile to Malaya? Britain should be swiming in resources and manpower but much of this is still needed to keep the colonies under control. Much of the 3 million Indian soldiers we kept in India to police the country. Places like South Africa (a dominion I know) did not want their troops serving outside of Africa. Also as an aside manyof the supplies for this large Indian army were obtained by Indian based production, the increase in industrialisation using huge numbers of people.

 

[Super-Soviet]

According to World War Wednesday stream, one of the national focus trees for Britain focuses on strengthening the Commonwealth allies including "British Raj" by giving them free industry and stuff. At the bottom of the tree is "Indian Independence."

That sort of makes sense. India had been promised independence long before the game started, it just had a uncertain timetable. Congress basically wanted to join the war on the side of the Allies as a independent nation, but they were angry that India was brought into the war as a colony rather than being allowed to declare war on Germany themselves.

 

[Kimberly]

And of course the most OP weapon should be the classic Indian 'tank':
[Elephants]
Those Panzers and T-34s don't stand a chance!

Surely they will be no match for the Maus, though!

 

[Swinds]

DD required as it has not come up in the World War Wednesday either

 

[neusaap]

Can we fight for an independent India ? And kick Brits out ?

I will rocket these goddamn imperialists !

The US has a couple of NFs to strike at the imperialists, I'd assume that'd be attacking the brits and liberate India

 

[Super-Soviet]

The US has a couple of NFs to strike at the imperialists, I'd assume that'd be attacking the brits and liberate India

Pf, and you believe them? They just want an excuse to take control of the British Empire's oil!

 

[scroggin]

Having India as a puppet would reflect reality as long as you have the ability to control the military of your puppets, provide them with equipment and decide what units to build. India was heavily controlled by whitehall.

Im quite hopeful that puppets will work better in hoi4 than they did in hoi3. Hoi4's equipment system will add a lot of realism to the relationship between puppet and master.

In hoi3 it was more realistic to have India as part of Britain. All puppets did was clog up your supply system with low grade troops. The indian army units that were deployed to fight were well trained and equiped and they were all under direct british control.

 

[FOARP]

Having India as a puppet would reflect reality as long as you have the ability to control the military of your puppets, provide them with equipment and decide what units to build. India was heavily controlled by whitehall.

Exactly. If this is possible then it is OK. If this is not possible then it's going to be a bloody pain.

The British Empire is complicated enough that it would need a DLC to do it justice. You have everything from informal empire over nominally independent states (e.g., Iraq), to democratic self-governing Dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa), to colonies (Nigeria), to protectorates (Egypt).

You cannot simply handle Canada as a puppet because it was not a puppet, but handling Canada simply as an independent state allied with the UK misses out the depth of the co-operation between the two. Handling Egypt as British territory misses out the very real fact that Egypt's rulers had 100,000+ strong army and were to a degree sympathetic to the Axis.