The Bolshevik Reveloution and World War 1

[Ksim3000]

Hi all,

I have a question. Okay well I have never finished a full game on Vicky from 1836, 1861 or 1888 and the only game I have finished is on a WW1 Scenario. Anyway I was wondering, on the other Scenarios, can you actually have World War 1, ie, an Assination of Franz Ferdinand which triggers WW1 off? See I wanna have The CSA in WW1 so I just wondered. Also is there a Russian Reveloution or a Russian Civil War by any chance? On one game as The British, I finished WW1 off but The Russians never had The Bolshevik Reveloution and still stayed under The Tsar's rule. Was this just an error or did Paradox add no Red Flag Reveloution in WW1?

 

[Spruce]

the only thing I can say to help you - because I didn't see it my games - is that the London treaty on Belgium is important for the game engine,

but I do believe there's a WWI event, but it seems to be very rare, perhaps I'm mistaking,

 

[Ksim3000]

I see, yeah The Treaty of London event I do et everytime, well perhaps I might have to trigger The WW1 Event if so. Still what about The Bolshevik Rev? Has anyone had that?

 

[unmerged(19361)]

I see, yeah The Treaty of London event I do et everytime, well perhaps I might have to trigger The WW1 Event if so. Still what about The Bolshevik Rev? Has anyone had that?

Once I was playing Hawaii handsoff in 1.03 and in 1901 Russia had bad revolts and finally had a communist revolution.

Also, Latvia, Lithuania and Finnland broke free and formed nations.

I don't think an event caused it.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

The events for the First World War are specific only to the 1914 scenario (i.e. the events in the 1914.txt event file). Thus, there is no specific event launching the First World War in 1914 or for the Bolshevik Revolution if you play a different scenario.

 

[Josephus I]

The events for the First World War are specific only to the 1914 scenario (i.e. the events in the 1914.txt event file). Thus, there is no specific event launching the First World War in 1914 or for the Bolshevik Revolution if you play a different scenario.

Why not? I think that these are major events. At least the Bolshevik Revolution event should be included in Russia's event file for all scenarios. It, obviously, was a major catastrophic event of its time. If EU can have the Time of Troubles, Vickie should have the Bolshevik Revolution, IMO.

 

[unmerged(16875)]

They're not in there because they would have been impossible without the alliance system that existed in 1914. Maybe not impossible - Franz could still have been shot and all - but if Germany and Austria hadn't been allied, and if X, Y and Z hadn't been true, Franz's death might not have mattered in the grand scheme of things. I mean, if in an 1836 GC as France, I decide I want to be the third Central Power and spend all game allied with Germany and Austria, I shouldn't have a predetermined event forcing me to war with them.

EDIT to add that if Russia were in real life like it is when I play it (full democracy by 1860) the Revolution wouldn't have happened, either. So why should I get stuck with it?

 

[The Witch-King]

Very true - and also, if Russia hadn't been so badly beat up in the Great War, the revolution would probably not have occured the way it did, with such speed and strength.

A revolution is definitely likely under similar circumstances under the normal rules of the game, so an event is not really needed in my opinion. If you want to see a revolution in Russia, just attack them, beat them up, support their revolts and watch their soldiers, workers and peasants tear apart the fabric of feudal society. Just watch out so that you don't get it at home first

They're not in there because they would have been impossible without the alliance system that existed in 1914. Maybe not impossible - Franz could still have been shot and all - but if Germany and Austria hadn't been allied, and if X, Y and Z hadn't been true, Franz's death might not have mattered in the grand scheme of things. I mean, if in an 1836 GC as France, I decide I want to be the third Central Power and spend all game allied with Germany and Austria, I shouldn't have a predetermined event forcing me to war with them.

EDIT to add that if Russia were in real life like it is when I play it (full democracy by 1860) the Revolution wouldn't have happened, either. So why should I get stuck with it?

 

[Josephus I]

I agree that WW1 should not be hardcoded in all scenarios.

But the Russian Revolution should, with certain conditions. I'm currently in a GC as Russia, mid 1917. I'm losing a war with Austria/Prussia and I'm under a monarchy AND I haven't done one single social program. But there won't be a revolution.

After all, in EU2 both the French and American revolutions are scripted to occur IF CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. Russia's Time of Troubles also had historic reasons for occuring.

 

[Chris8b]

Check out the VIP modding forum.

There is some work being done that basically triggers the Bolshevik Revolution if Russia is involved in a Great War and reaches a certain level of War Exhaustion.

-C

 

[The Witch-King]

Well, with a human player, you can't really expect too much in the way of realistic setbacks (revolutions etc).

In EU2, the USA has virtually no chance of forming with a human England player. And the French revolution is usually not that big an issue either, with a human player to check it.

Revolutions just don't succeed in human-controlled countries, since it is far too easy to prevent them.

Besides, we are only discussing Russia here.... historically there were similar events in Germany, Austria, France, Spain and other countries. I think that the general difficulty in preventing revolutions is perhaps what should be addressed, rather than just forcing it on the Russians.

I think we all want more nation-breaking/making revolutions. It's way more fun than just scattered revolts.

I agree that WW1 should not be hardcoded in all scenarios.

But the Russian Revolution should, with certain conditions. I'm currently in a GC as Russia, mid 1917. I'm losing a war with Austria/Prussia and I'm under a monarchy AND I haven't done one single social program. But there won't be a revolution.

After all, in EU2 both the French and American revolutions are scripted to occur IF CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. Russia's Time of Troubles also had historic reasons for occuring.

 

[Bastian_Bux]

Actually the communist republic of germany was declared a mere 1 or 2 hours after the democratic republic was declared in 1918. The two points of declarations are even close enough that someone could have walked from the first to the second :rofl:

 

[Ksim3000]

Hmmmmmmm........a shame I must say, well I'll check out The VIP and of course I'll see if anyone or infact myself my be able to make an event for a WW1 Event, afterall you can't have Vicky without WW1.

 

[unmerged(2238)]

The great thing about 1.03 is that you see countries that historically had trouble with revolts having a ton of revolts--and not just due to path dependent event triggers. (I'm looking at you Russia) I always see Russia with a few dark patches in their empire even though they're doing pretty well overall. (sometimes more rebel provinces, sometimes less depending on their war exhaustion, etc) I think that's awesome--Austria ALSO has the same problems now and it's just so cool to see that Austria is actually acting a bit like a huge messy multinational empire and it has a lot of the negatives that go along with that.

 

[unmerged(10416)]

Actually the communist republic of germany was declared a mere 1 or 2 hours after the democratic republic was declared in 1918. The two points of declarations are even close enough that someone could have walked from the first to the second :rofl:

Weren't they even made from two windows on oppoaite sides of the Reichstag? I remember reading something like that. I know Scheidemann made his proclamation (Republic) from a window on the side of the Reichstag.

 

[Caranorn]

Very true - and also, if Russia hadn't been so badly beat up in the Great War, the revolution would probably not have occured the way it did, with such speed and strength.

A revolution is definitely likely under similar circumstances under the normal rules of the game, so an event is not really needed in my opinion. If you want to see a revolution in Russia, just attack them, beat them up, support their revolts and watch their soldiers, workers and peasants tear apart the fabric of feudal society. Just watch out so that you don't get it at home first

Many historians view that differently. It seems likely that the revolution was actually delayed by the Great War. Patriotic sentiment took over in most European countries in 1914. It was only through defeat (or rather due to the massive casualties on all sides) that the existing social movements regained momentum which finally led to the post WWI revolutions (not just Russia, almost every European country).

Marc aka Caran...

 

[unmerged(11874)]

The Russian Revolution should happen in some fashion unless Russia becomes a democracy very early.

Eventually I'm going to get around to building an event chain that describes the circumstances of the revolution (i.e., 1905 had to happen, Kerensky has to continue the war, Lenin has to be shipped back to Russia, otherwise it takes a different route) and create a Soviet Union revolter out of one of the free tags and script some events that allow either Russia proper or the U.S.S.R. to inherit the other. I think civil wars are much more fun when there are actually two sides and not just random rebelliousness. Then I'll probably at some point add intervention events and an event path that allows one to go on a communist crusade to paint Europe red.

 

[unmerged(10416)]

Some sort of revolution was inevitable, IMHO, but the Russian civil war? Europe had seen no civil wars since the religious wars of the 17th century, and without WW1 I find it very hard to imagine Russia falling so deep into chaos that a full civil war would start. First of all, the Russian army would serve as a stabilizer (for better or for worse, depending on whose side they would sit) - something they could not do successfully in the extraordinary circumstances after the massive losses in manpower and officers between 1914 and 1917, but would have done in any other situation. And secondly, the revolutionaries would hardly be able to act as freely as they did in any other circumstances than those after the abdication of Nicky II.

I think under other circumstances Russia - say, famine plus near total destabilization of the monarchy - would have seen widespread peasant revolts, and maybe disturbances in peripheral urban centers (Siberia, Ukraine), but it would end when the army joins one of the sides.