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JabberJock14

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As for the inspiration, it was actually two fold. Both were part of your campaign in Rouen. One was that we have so many bits of battle that occur at times which should never happen. There was a campaign season for a reason. But if we must make point of it due to the game, it should be cold. Minor and briefly mentioned, but still. And of course, the other was the depth of the battle. I don't write them often and I found yours truly engaging. Yes, they both involved a last minute assistance (and victory) but it was really the depth of the tactics that I enjoyed and tried to emulate if I could. It is not my strong suit, as I say often, but I wanted to try and place the reader within the battle as best I could. At least better than I may have done in the past. I applaud your work and so many others that are able to do such a thing. This one was a big one so I thought it deserved such treatment. Thanks for seeing it. :)

Given that you inspired me, I am very happy I was able to, in a small way, return the favor! Though interestingly, in addition to @jasondroth24's battle scenes, I thought back to yours in the Rightful King where Uhtræd killed Morcar's father Eadgar. So I certainly have not had much issue on how you've handled them in the past. (And yes, it can be a difficult balance between real life and what is portrayed in the game - but we try to make it work)
 

jasondroth24

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Lol I do love writing battle scenes, they really are awful but if u can just get in the moment in ur head............When I wrote that last one I literally sat here waving my arms about and checking if how my shield fitted hahaha
 

stnylan

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Lol I do love writing battle scenes, they really are awful but if u can just get in the moment in ur head............When I wrote that last one I literally sat here waving my arms about and checking if how my shield fitted hahaha
I've done stuff like that - sometimes it is the only way.
 

Nikolai

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I think Uthræd goes a bit too lightly on the good duchess.
 

coz1

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Fb-fb:

Given that you inspired me, I am very happy I was able to, in a small way, return the favor! Though interestingly, in addition to @jasondroth24's battle scenes, I thought back to yours in the Rightful King where Uhtræd killed Morcar's father Eadgar. So I certainly have not had much issue on how you've handled them in the past. (And yes, it can be a difficult balance between real life and what is portrayed in the game - but we try to make it work)
It was in no small way that you assisted. It is good to hear that I have done well in the past and with this one, but I still feel as though I am stretching my ability when it comes to a battle scene. People in rooms talking...I can handle that all day long. But to bring the verisimilitude required when it comes to 12th century battle? I would need far more research than I have done to satisfy my strict expectations of myself. You may imagine I am a tad harsh when I self critique. ;)

Lol I do love writing battle scenes, they really are awful but if u can just get in the moment in ur head............When I wrote that last one I literally sat here waving my arms about and checking if how my shield fitted hahaha

I've done stuff like that - sometimes it is the only way.
I cannot say I act the part out, but I certainly speak it out quite a lot. I cannot say that I love writing battle scenes, because they are not easy, but kudos to those that make it seem that way. And I have read both of your works and know that to be true of each. :)

I think Uthræd goes a bit too lightly on the good duchess.
Well, I have not done much to her yet but best her force in full. We shall see how the King treats Lady Wulfrun if and when Uhtræd wins this war. ;)


To all - Working on the next many scenes as we speak. Expect the next tomorrow and it is another doozy (at least to me.) Your comments remain the best and oh so desired. Many times I am looking for what works and what does not. I am at this craft for fun, to be sure, but I also wish to perfect it as much as I am able. Every bit helps. Gameplay advice is always welcome, but what truly interests me are the characters, the plot and the method of presentation. Thankfully, and since I have the best readers in all of AARland, you never fail me. Thank you!! :D
 

Idhrendur

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The battle was a great victory, but every loss makes me fear for the showdown with the true rebel here. I'm sure the 24% war score from the battle was appreciated, though!
 

Director

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Almost a deus ex plot machina to have the King arrive in the - forgive me - nick of time as his brother receives a 'nick' of a different kind. But a battle scene well envisioned and described, I'd say. Could be the Mercians pressed so hard for battle hoping to finish the one force before the King could arrive and they just miscalculated how fast he could move.

Wulfrun... is certainly a complex character, but I think a lot of what she does is based on youth and willfulness. That young lady has had a lack of people who could turn her over their lap and paddle her behind, I think.

The King speaks relatively well of her because he knows of no reason she would join the Robertian faction, and in fact her main motivation seems to have been panic that the letter would irretrievably poison the King against her. I think she has made a mistake both in her estimation and in her action - serious but not perhaps fatal. I can't see that she wants to topple the King, and in fact I'm not quite sure what she hopes to get out of this except to use Robert and the King to exhaust each other.

So now both factions are surrounded with enemies, neither Robert nor the King able to turn their forces on the other because of the distractions. I believe the Normans may have the worst of it, with less strategic depth and stronger enemies around them. The King can ill-afford to lose Mercia - but he can stand it if he can neutralize them and remove them as an imminent threat, which he has just done. After all, Robert's manpower and money have to be dropping and he doesn't have much so far to show for it. His best chance was to go immediately over the Channel and roll up the King's forces; failing that, his prospects are dimming.

The alliances and enemies are now too complex and too well-balanced for a purely military solution, unless the King can fight out a total war for generations. Or unless, in the midst of all those battles, the King dies.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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Almost a deus ex plot machina to have the King arrive in the - forgive me - nick of time as his brother receives a 'nick' of a different kind. But a battle scene well envisioned and described, I'd say. Could be the Mercians pressed so hard for battle hoping to finish the one force before the King could arrive and they just miscalculated how fast he could move.

I mean, as deus ex machina go, being rescued by reinforcements in the nick of time happens a lot in warfare stories, especially OTL stories about RL warfare because of course it does. The people there survived and won, so of course they went on to write their accounts of it and push the 'reinforcements at the last second' cliche a little bit further onward.

That being said, it really has happened an awful lot in history, especially in this sort of era when intelligence gathering sucked and armies tended to be one big group marching together.I wouldn't deem this as such a 'god out of the machine' thing because we knew the all three armies were close together and this sort of reversal of fortune happened all the time, especially in civil wars with multiple combatants running around a country. And since this battle didn't actually do much aside from ensuring the main characters continued to live to service the plot, it's not really a cheat either.

As you said, the speediest way to adversely change or win the war at this point would be for the king to die, which would be a much greater deus ex machina example than this. Even that wouldn't be an instant win condition but it would certainly make the Norman campaign easier.
 

coz1

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Fb-fb:

The battle was a great victory, but every loss makes me fear for the showdown with the true rebel here. I'm sure the 24% war score from the battle was appreciated, though!
Good eye there, sir. Indeed, the war score shot up after that battle. It was very much appreciated. Every bit helps to put an end to this war.

Almost a deus ex plot machina to have the King arrive in the - forgive me - nick of time as his brother receives a 'nick' of a different kind. But a battle scene well envisioned and described, I'd say. Could be the Mercians pressed so hard for battle hoping to finish the one force before the King could arrive and they just miscalculated how fast he could move.

Wulfrun... is certainly a complex character, but I think a lot of what she does is based on youth and willfulness. That young lady has had a lack of people who could turn her over their lap and paddle her behind, I think.

The King speaks relatively well of her because he knows of no reason she would join the Robertian faction, and in fact her main motivation seems to have been panic that the letter would irretrievably poison the King against her. I think she has made a mistake both in her estimation and in her action - serious but not perhaps fatal. I can't see that she wants to topple the King, and in fact I'm not quite sure what she hopes to get out of this except to use Robert and the King to exhaust each other.

So now both factions are surrounded with enemies, neither Robert nor the King able to turn their forces on the other because of the distractions. I believe the Normans may have the worst of it, with less strategic depth and stronger enemies around them. The King can ill-afford to lose Mercia - but he can stand it if he can neutralize them and remove them as an imminent threat, which he has just done. After all, Robert's manpower and money have to be dropping and he doesn't have much so far to show for it. His best chance was to go immediately over the Channel and roll up the King's forces; failing that, his prospects are dimming.

The alliances and enemies are now too complex and too well-balanced for a purely military solution, unless the King can fight out a total war for generations. Or unless, in the midst of all those battles, the King dies.
I might agree that it would seem a bit deus ex machina except in this situation, that is quite literally what occurred. The King was moving and once battle was joined vs. Morcar, it was a test of time to see if he could come to the rescue. Obviously, he did and routed the Mercian force. Glad the battle seemed logical. You know well my fears about such scenes.

Likewise on the events surrounding Wulfrun's turn - it was a tenuous thread to weave but I think it worked to make sense (even if wrong headed) for the Duchess to join alongside Robert. Her motivations will be explained a bit more fully in a coming scene.

On the overall war - it would seem a bit of a stalemate as long as both sides stick to their respective areas. That may be about to change.

I mean, as deus ex machina go, being rescued by reinforcements in the nick of time happens a lot in warfare stories, especially OTL stories about RL warfare because of course it does. The people there survived and won, so of course they went on to write their accounts of it and push the 'reinforcements at the last second' cliche a little bit further onward.

That being said, it really has happened an awful lot in history, especially in this sort of era when intelligence gathering sucked and armies tended to be one big group marching together.I wouldn't deem this as such a 'god out of the machine' thing because we knew the all three armies were close together and this sort of reversal of fortune happened all the time, especially in civil wars with multiple combatants running around a country. And since this battle didn't actually do much aside from ensuring the main characters continued to live to service the plot, it's not really a cheat either.

As you said, the speediest way to adversely change or win the war at this point would be for the king to die, which would be a much greater deus ex machina example than this. Even that wouldn't be an instant win condition but it would certainly make the Norman campaign easier.
Agreed. But let us not talk of dying Kings. :eek: Neither his mother nor I could bear it.


To all - the next scene follows in just a moment and sees some potential for movement in the war, hopefully. Thanks again for your excellent readership and comments!
 

coz1

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The Bold Prince


Wareham, England - February 1115


King Uhtræd sat in his tent surrounded by his top commanders. Next to him, Lord Morcar drummed his fingers rhythmically on the slight map table. The King’s man Alexander sat next to him and frowned in his annoyance at the noise. The Duke of Ferrara was enjoying a cup of ale as he waited for the King to speak next and Beorhtmaer kept his eyes on the map before them. Lord Harold stood behind the Prince, also gazing curiously at the map. The King held his finger to Wessex as he spoke up once more.

“The Catalans sit near Winchester at the now after chasing the Mercian force north to Wells and then on to Wessex. Both times, this Deodat won his match. Our Lady Wulfrun has quickly lost her force and is now no matter.”

“She will try to build another,” Harold suggested.

Uhtræd gave nod, “That is no doubt, but she will not be able to do so for a time. In that time, we must make our decision.”

“Your Grace,” Morcar leaned forward, “We are over six thousand now…near to eight with the numbers of this Catalan Band. We should split our force and move back to the taking of these holds.”

Beorhtmaer looked at the map, “The Lord Marshal has a point, Your Grace. We hold all of Northampton and a goodly amount of both Somerset and Middlesex. London has fallen to you and yet, we sit here in Dorset trying to take one keep of Lord Cearl when all of Wessex remains intact as does the remainder of Cornwall.”

“And Mercia is a great land to the north, Your Grace,” Alexander suggested, “The surest way to keep Lady Wulfrun from raising fresh troops is to relieve her of her own land.”

Uhtræd looked to the map with a frown and slapped a hand upon France, “And Mercia is not our goal. Robert of Normandy is.”


“What does your foolish Robert do at the now, good King?” Duke Arnolfo asked before taking a drink.

“Our other ally, the Duke of Dauphine has sent me word from Auvergne, where he sits at a siege against the Normans,” Uhtræd pointed to the south, “He says that he expects the Norman Duke to be upon him soon and with a superior force. He would hold as long as he is able.”

“And your wife?” Morcar looked to the King a bit too familiar.

Uhtræd offered him a sharp eye, “The Queen remains in the Empire where she works at efforts to safeguard Meissen from a harsh and now disgruntled Emperor.”

Arnolfo chuckled, “This Siegmund has always been disgruntled. I have never liked him myself.”

“Mayhap no,” the King answered as he moved to a satchel and pulled out a note, “But he is moreso now as he has lost his claim to Brugge.”

“Robert bested him?” Harold looked shocked.

Uhtræd gave nod, “He has. My brother Eadward has sent word that a peace was signed between the two men not a fortnight ago leaving the Norman free to pursue his original goal.”


All of their faces looked disappointed and the King nodded his head in agreement, “So you may see why I am not yet ready to split my force at the now.”

Beorhtmaer kept to the map, “Do you think he will cross?”

Lord Morcar was quick to interject, “He could not so quickly if he is to his south.”

“I would not be so confident in that, my Lord,” Harold suggested to his fellow Duke. “Lord Robert has proved to be an uncanny man in every way.”

“What of our brother by law, Your Grace?” Beorhtmaer asked, “Does the Prince fare any better?”

Uhtræd sighed, “Sadly, he does not. In the same letter Eadward sent, he tells me of even more happening in this game that is for France itself.”

“Christs Keys!” Morcar exclaimed, “What now?”

“There is yet another that sits the chair,” Uhtræd allowed only a slight grin, “This time, it be the younger brother to our Prince Roubaud. Do not ask me how for Eadward has no words on the matter, but Sybille is out and now this Guillaume is in.”

“The Count of Blois?!” Arnolfo asked with an amused shock. “Why he is a snake after all! I met the man some years ago prior to all of this mess. He did not show me to be a man of any measure…the clear inferior to his brother Roubaud in every way.”

“Inferior or no,” Uhtræd looked back to the map, “He is now King of the Franks and Prince Roubaud continues to push for his claim…now against his own brother.”

“An unfortunate business,” Morcar tut-tutted, “We had such great hopes of making him a fine ally to us.”

Uhtræd looked to the Duke quickly, “An ally he remains and we would not refuse him his aid should we be able to help.”

“I cannot see how,” Morcar allowed with much bluster as he stood to fetch his own ale, “Not if we be so sure to keep to the surroundings of Wareham at the now and tremble at Robert’s boots landing ashore.”

“Now see here, my Lord Marshal,” Alexander stood to defend the King, “His Grace does not tremble in fear but looks to the best advantage. You would hold your tongue!”

Morcar turned with a fresh cup, “And you would mind your rank, sir. I merely state the obvious.”

Arnolfo stood himself to move by Lord Harold as he waved a hand, “I believe it safer next to you, my Lord. There is a foul odor to that side of the tent.”

“My Lords,” Uhtræd held out his hands, “Please! Let us not fight amongst ourselves. We are not the enemy.”

Beorhtmaer had remained silent but spoke up once again, “Your Grace…while I am unsure if our Lord of York speaks rudely or no, I do believe he still has a point.”

“Thank you, sir,” Morcar allowed the Prince a smile.

Uhtræd shot the Duke a sharp eye, “Be silent my Lord and allow the Prince to speak.”

Morcar shrugged with his smile intact as Beorhtmaer continued, “It is not that I agree with his suggestion that we split our force only to remain here on these shores and at the same sieges that have seen us remain not at the front of this thing.”

“What then would you suggest?” Uhtræd was curious.

The young Prince pointed back to the map, “As long as we remain in our realm, Lord Robert is allowed near immunity from any threat and it allows him to best any foe he may wish across the channel. First his own brother in the Vexin, then Prince Roubaud, and then the Emperor. Now he moves south to best the Duke of Dauphine. And even if he crosses, there remains one place that he is not. Right here.”

Lord Harold immediately caught on as he spied where the Prince was pointing to, “You would have us move on Rouen.”

Morcar was shocked, “You would have us seen cut to shreds. At the least, here we know the ground…we hold the advantage. The moment we step foot in Normandy, we lose all of that. Do you not think that he may return to his home at a moment’s notice once he thinks it under threat?”

Beorhtmaer allowed a smile of his own, “That is quite the point, my Lord Marshal.”

Duke Arnolfo allowed an impressed nod, “Yes…I see it. A bold plan, my good Prince. This Norman thinks that we be scared to travel to his lands and so he may take all the time he wishes to build his force for just the right landing that he may desire. If we would leave a residual force here to protect against the raising of more troops by your Duchess in the north or even this foolish Cearl, you may take the bulk of this army straight to Rouen and place it under great siege.”

Lord Harold moved to bow to the King, “Your father made such a move before you, Your Grace. It was a success against the Bastard.”

Uhtræd offered a smile, “Ironic that when he did, this Lord Robert had not lifted a finger to help his father. Now he would be the one under attack.”

“Your Grace,” Morcar stepped forward, “We should be in Wessex. We should be in Devonshire. We should be straight to Hereford and knock these allies of the Duke from this war before we go after his own.”

The King stayed silent for a moment before he finally looked to all in the tent, “I would like to be in all of those places and more, my Lords, but we are one army and with limited men. I may not say that this move towards Rouen is our plan just yet, but I have a liking of it. We would take this place of Wareham before all else, but once this is done, I will consider this once more.”

Uhtræd looked to Lord Harold, “May I entrust you to get a letter to your brother in Kent, my Lord?”

“Of course, Your Grace,” Harold nodded quickly.

“You may tell Lord Æthelmær to begin looking at finding us a means of travel to these shores. He may not have many archers in Kent, but they do not lack for ships and we would need many.”

Lord Harold gave another quick nod as the King looked to Duke Arnolfo, “I wonder if I might ask of you another favor, my Lord?”

Arnolfo offered a bow, “You may surely ask it, good King. I know not what my answer would be until the hearing of it.”

Uhtræd grinned, “I know that I have asked you to take part in assisting my brother by law in France and you demurred saying that you could not. By that, I have taken it that you wish not to fight in France.”

“I would assist you, good King, for my sister’s sake as she is married to your fine son Oscytel. But I could go no further than that, I am afraid,” Arnolfo answered with another bow.

“That is fine,” Uhtræd moved to stand next to him, “For what I may wish should we take this move of traveling to Rouen is for your force to remain here and keep at our work. Your force remains healthy and I would have trust in you.”

Duke Arnolfo offered a much deeper bow, “It would be my great honor, good King.”

The King turned to the Duke of York, “And you, my Lord Marshal…I would have you remain as well. I would like you to begin preparations to parcel a small force of your men so that some may stay with you and assist the Duke here while the larger part would go with me.”

Morcar grumbled under his breath, “That would likely be wise, Your Grace. It would not do to have a large force of fancy Italians raiding the countryside and scaring our Saxon women half to death.”

Arnolfo leaned over to whisper to Harold, “A charming man. I am so lucky.”

“The rest of us,” Uhtræd looked back to them all, “We would begin this consideration. This Lord Robert thinks us the same old Saxons of distant times…we who might bend the knee to a northman or his Norman father because we feared their wrath. It has been many years since such a thing existed and my father did not rebuild this Saxon Kingdom for it to be taken over once more by a foreigner. If this man thinks that we may stand timidly by and watch him do whatever he pleases, then he will think again when he finds the great force that we would bring to his door. We would end this war, my Lords, and we would go back to being a peaceable Kingdom. You all may mark my words.”
 
Last edited:

stnylan

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I think this meeting quite well shows the different and disparate group that make up Uhtræd's chief supporters. United in purpose and yet divergent. Morcar especially if true to established form, and he may not be wrong.

Uhtræd does seem to be in firm command though, and eager to force a winning blow. I wonder if he yearns for the apparent simplicity of a battle in progress.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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“And your wife,” Morcar looked to the King a bit too familiar.

Is that a question? I don't quite understand this sentence.

The King turned to the Duke of York, “And you, my Lord Marshal…I would have you remain as well. I would like you to begin preparations to parcel a small force of your men so that some may stay with you and assist the Duke here while the larger part would go with me.”

Hmm...so it's being left up to York to keep England safe whilst everyone else is in France. I don't know whether that's wise or not.
Something I did note from the meeting however was that this was much more like a King's Moot rather than various petty kings with various alliances and enemies like it has been on many occasions before. Could it be that everyone is starting to recognise the changing state in England, namely that there is a centralising State now? No one attacked the king himself, the royal family in general was spoken to deferentially and whilst there is in-fighting, its duke and lords against each other and even then only words rather than anything more violent or chaotic. Perhaps with everyone capable of being independent rebelling, everyone else has closed ranks around the Crown and Kingdom of England? If this war is actually won, and well, this could be the start of England's rise to prominence as a powerful and stable realm in its own right.
 

coz1

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Nikolai

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I for one did not understand what was so wrong with the question?
 

TheButterflyComposer

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I for one did not understand what was so wrong with the question?

“And your wife,” Morcar looked to the King a bit too familiar.

Questions should have a question mark because you can't always write tonal inflection for a sentence. A character could say just about anything and make it sound like a question otherwise. Though in this sentence I actually paused at 'a bit too familiar'. Is Morcar being too familiar with the King? About his wife? Or some other thing? All three?

Picky picky yes but...
 

coz1

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A pedantic moment, perhaps, but a fair note. The lack of the question mark does not lessen the too familiar question itself. That was meant. ;)
 

Nikolai

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Question mark is okay. But what was wrong with the question? How should he have phrased it to be okay for this monarch? It puzzles me.
 

TheButterflyComposer

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A pedantic moment, perhaps, but a fair note. The lack of the question mark does not lessen the too familiar question itself. That was meant. ;)

Question mark is okay. But what was wrong with the question? How should he have phrased it to be okay for this monarch? It puzzles me.

There wasn't anything wrong with the question itself, more what came just after. But this intentional so presumably will be resolved at some point. Idk, it bothered me. Morcar isn't that familiar with this king, I don't think? I mean, he could be in a while since the same man raised them and so on but not right now. Maybe he was just being presumptive?
 

Idhrendur

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Well, that's a bold plan. But given the intelligence available (that screenshot, for instance), it looks like now's the time to strike.
 

coz1

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I think this meeting quite well shows the different and disparate group that make up Uhtræd's chief supporters. United in purpose and yet divergent. Morcar especially if true to established form, and he may not be wrong.

Uhtræd does seem to be in firm command though, and eager to force a winning blow. I wonder if he yearns for the apparent simplicity of a battle in progress.
That was my hope. It was quite fun to actually have them all together. I'm really enjoying writing for the Duke of Ferarra if it is not apparent, and yes...Morcar is true to his form. Glad that was caught. ;)

Hmm...so it's being left up to York to keep England safe whilst everyone else is in France. I don't know whether that's wise or not.
Something I did note from the meeting however was that this was much more like a King's Moot rather than various petty kings with various alliances and enemies like it has been on many occasions before. Could it be that everyone is starting to recognise the changing state in England, namely that there is a centralising State now? No one attacked the king himself, the royal family in general was spoken to deferentially and whilst there is in-fighting, its duke and lords against each other and even then only words rather than anything more violent or chaotic. Perhaps with everyone capable of being independent rebelling, everyone else has closed ranks around the Crown and Kingdom of England? If this war is actually won, and well, this could be the start of England's rise to prominence as a powerful and stable realm in its own right.
I cannot say all of that is true, but some fine thoughts. We are close to a generation away from Eadgar's reign and thinking is beginning to change. All in the meeting wish a resolution for England. However...

Question mark is okay. But what was wrong with the question? How should he have phrased it to be okay for this monarch? It puzzles me.

There wasn't anything wrong with the question itself, more what came just after. But this intentional so presumably will be resolved at some point. Idk, it bothered me. Morcar isn't that familiar with this king, I don't think? I mean, he could be in a while since the same man raised them and so on but not right now. Maybe he was just being presumptive?
Apologies to you, Butterfly, if not pedantic. Your ending question should be key. Ding, ding, ding. :D

It is one line of a much larger bit of pages, but remains intended even without proper punctuation. I would also remind that Uhtræd spent 16 years with his father before moving off to Meissen and Morcar spent just a couple. Eadgar taught them both much, but what they took from such remains quite different.

There is reason for his character that Morcar makes such a familiar remark. ;)

Well, that's a bold plan. But given the intelligence available (that screenshot, for instance), it looks like now's the time to strike.
I thought so. Cross Channel Chicken (tm) will finally be played.:D