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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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Histaxin

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I can see why the Austria-Prussian alliance is pushing you so strongly, once the green giants finish up in Asia they're going to start looking for something else to eat and aside from a few colonies they're the most obvious and most valuable target.

That has nothing to do with each other; OE is very happy to be left alone and watch the european wars enfold. Its fun to watch actually.

russia and the ottomans are going to get nasty. also, the netherlands have a suprisingly strong economy, and i'd expect them to take a large tech leap on you all, dpeending on how depening they ar eon minting. i expect those endless wars are going to end in the supremacy of either austria or you in germany.

too bad tird parties are not willing to involve themselves. altough i expect them to have their own conflicts. any other major conflicts or rivaly's going on?

edit: if the green giants are going for europe, i think the best would be too make a european alliance of italy, france, prussia and austria to face them. even the green giants owning asia is not enough to take on all of europe, with its huge tax and manpower. especially as revolts and all require many troops back there, while one or two armies the man are enough to cover europe.

The Ottoman Empire has a slightly higher tech speed than Netherlands, so he wont get a tech leap on me. Given that wars are very costly, theres no reason for either russia or OE to involve themselves in european matters. OE is still happily eating up the remaining mughals and Russia is doing the same with Ming. Especially Russia needs time to catch up techwise, currently they are quite a bit behind in that regard.

But especially Russia only needs like ~50-100k troops to patrol its entire border due to the insaneness of Russian patriarchate coppled with a few other decisions/national ideas like ecumenism. At least that will be so once hes finished converting which might take a while. If well played russia has around ~2 or even less RR everywhere.

OE is less priviledged in that regard though but i should manage to reduce it to around ~ 7 in every prov which is acceptable for fighting a war at max we.
 

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If this war takes as long as the last one then it definitely won't end in anything decisive. That said, both German players have indicated they might be up for renegotiating our relationship after this war, so hopefully we can see an end to this constant Franco-German warfare. If I get some breathing room around GT25 I should hopefully be able to boost my economy up to the point where it's competitive with the leaders again, but these constant wars are making proper economy management impossible.
 

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I just want to say that I love this AAR. It's motivating me to buy EU3.
 

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Another great update, very tense wars with the Germans continue, but it does look as though some kind of understanding will have to be reached.

The mistake by the Austrian's is the kind I fear I would make left, right and centre in a multiplayer game!
 

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I'm still amazed at your economies and all this war time ...
hoping you won't lose Russia
 

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I'm curious about Prussia's grand strategy, being unfamiliar with Multiplayer myself I would think that he would see Austria has his main rival as they would be in direct competition over Germany. Is he waiting to take Prussian discipline before starting the inevitable war? Throwing his lot in with either side seems counter productive if he ends up having to fight an giant French or Austrian HRE holding most of Europe.
 

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I'm curious about Prussia's grand strategy, being unfamiliar with Multiplayer myself I would think that he would see Austria has his main rival as they would be in direct competition over Germany. Is he waiting to take Prussian discipline before starting the inevitable war? Throwing his lot in with either side seems counter productive if he ends up having to fight an giant French or Austrian HRE holding most of Europe.
Prussia cannot beat either of us (or Russia) 1v1, and since I'm much stronger than Austria it's easier to have the world let him into a 2v1 situation vs me than vs Austria. In addition, there is little way for a "giant HRE holding most of Europe" to take place, especially by Austria.
 

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Thanks for answering my previous questions, Pewt.

The statistics revealed by that ledger page you put up, and the income gap that Ottomans and Netherlands have managed to open ahead of you and the Germans, is truly startling. I'm especially surprised by the Netherlands, as they don't seem to control all that many provinces on the map - could they possibly make all that much from trade?

I wonder if this is actually a pretty common occurance in multiplayer games. I guess there are some concerns that they might eventually backstab one of you three, but if the three of you are having fun in your slugfest there's no reason to stop =) How do multiplayer games usually end? Is it a winner-takes-everything kill-them-all sort of battle royale, or does everyone eventually agree to divide the world amongst themselves and leave it at that?
 

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Thanks for answering my previous questions, Pewt.

The statistics revealed by that ledger page you put up, and the income gap that Ottomans and Netherlands have managed to open ahead of you and the Germans, is truly startling. I'm especially surprised by the Netherlands, as they don't seem to control all that many provinces on the map - could they possibly make all that much from trade?

I wonder if this is actually a pretty common occurance in multiplayer games. I guess there are some concerns that they might eventually backstab one of you three, but if the three of you are having fun in your slugfest there's no reason to stop =) How do multiplayer games usually end? Is it a winner-takes-everything kill-them-all sort of battle royale, or does everyone eventually agree to divide the world amongst themselves and leave it at that?
Trade is massive. The income gap is mostly because there are a lot of +trade efficiency% decisions and stuff which I haven't had the chance to jump around NI-wise to pick up (and I haven't had the chance to take National Trade Policy and/or Seahawks thanks to needing Battlefield Commissions and such), whereas NL and the Ottomans have. If I can get a prolonged (20+ year) break from this constant fighting my income should shoot way up.

And they usually just kind of peter out. It's pretty much impossible to decisively win one unless there is a huge skill gap.
 

Histaxin

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Thanks for answering my previous questions, Pewt.

The statistics revealed by that ledger page you put up, and the income gap that Ottomans and Netherlands have managed to open ahead of you and the Germans, is truly startling. I'm especially surprised by the Netherlands, as they don't seem to control all that many provinces on the map - could they possibly make all that much from trade?

I wonder if this is actually a pretty common occurance in multiplayer games. I guess there are some concerns that they might eventually backstab one of you three, but if the three of you are having fun in your slugfest there's no reason to stop =) How do multiplayer games usually end? Is it a winner-takes-everything kill-them-all sort of battle royale, or does everyone eventually agree to divide the world amongst themselves and leave it at that?

Netherlands having such a large income from trade is currently rather easy for him, since most european nations cant pick all the trade national ideas theyd like to have due to the wars occuring.
He seems to simply be a better trader compared to the other large trader Great Britain:
e.g. he gets nearly all the income from the CoTs in nanjing(china) and chancan(inca), while it should be easy for prussia/gb/france to get at least 5 merchants there.

Russia is 2 far behind techwise and doesnt have the appropriate idea slots yet (shrewd commerce practice and national trade policy)
Italy needs to keep naval ideas to protect his overseas provinces - england/italy will most likely start a cold war there once their nap ends
Spain/Sweden are lack the east indian trade company decision (you can only pick that at NT 20 and you need to have your capital in europe) which makes trading a lot harder (EITC gives you +10% compete chance for each merchant)
Hansa seems to be happy to watch the game enfold from his few provs in african and doesnt seem to want to expand to anywhere or even trade etc. - dont ask me why

But generally speaking the income gap between the traders france/NL/prussia/gb should be a lot narrower if they had the opportunity to pick the appropriate trade ideas/trade decisions - but both france/prussia cant do that due to their permanent wars.

Multiplayer games most often end when too many players drop out - either due to RL issues or simply the game bores them. That most oftenly happens around 1650.
 
Last edited:

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e.g. he gets nearly all the income from the CoTs in nanjing(china) and chancan(inca), while it should be easy for prussia/gb/france to get at least 5 merchants there.
I don't have range to most of the colonial CoTs and I suspect the same is true of Prussia.

But generally speaking the income gap between the traders france/NL/prussia/gb should be a lot narrower if they had the opportunity to pick the appropriate trade ideas/trade decisions - but both france/prussia cant do that due to their permanent wars.
But yeah, basically this.
 

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I don't have range to most of the colonial CoTs and I suspect the same is true of Prussia.

That you dont have reach to the american cots can easily be rectified, simply grab either one of the portugese west african provs or colonize one of the provs south of hansa.

Prussia actually could trade in nearly all the asian cots since his asian prov is already fully developed. France, Austria and Italy dont have that luxus due to their only overseas prov in asia being a colony.

Fazit: If you want trade range around the world, you need to have a fully developed provinces in asia and west africa/america. Colonies aint enough, it seems. I learned something new :).
 
Last edited:

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I've negotiated with the Germans and have arranged a NAP with Austria and Italy until 1635 (I assume Prussia as well, although that part was never clear. I don't plan to attack him, anyhow). It doesn't take effect until the end of the current war, but still, it'll be a chance to fix up France somewhat.
 

Tycat

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Without giving away anything important, can you say where you intend to expand after you improve your economy?
 

sprites

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Until 1635 ? hmm .. a 50-year NAP can do good for you and Austria/Prussia!
 

Pewt

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Without giving away anything important, can you say where you intend to expand after you improve your economy?
No. I haven't actually decided if/to where I plan to expand during that time, and if I had I couldn't make it public.

That said, I need about 20-30 years of peace to fix things up anyways (takes a while to burn WE and such, and then it's stability hits galore) so I'm in no rush either.

In other news, confirmed that Prussia is an official part of it as well.
 

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Evil France is just trading put it to the stakes and let it burn
 

Pewt

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Session 8
Player Changes:
Hansa didn’t show up, and given the state of his country I assume he’s gone.

Peace!
A few minutes before the session, Austria, Prussia and I agreed last-minute to peace (in return for Prussia canceling his core on Munster, and no other demands), in addition to our previously mentioned NAP to 1635. For the next few years I reorganized my army a bit and burned war exhaustion, but wasn’t interested in doing much work on my economy until WE hit 0. A slider move towards Free Subjects gave me a third Better Administration event in a row, burning off the last of my inflation from the war and letting me full mint for a few months.

Unfortunately it seems like the rate of this event is inversely correlated to how much inflation I have at any point in time.

The Great Leap Forward
With my WE at 0, it was time for some serious reforms to make up for 150 years of constant war and no real economic progress. I swapped National Conscripts (which I wouldn’t be needing for a while) to Seahawks for the purpose of passing Enlist Privateers eventually, regenerated one point of stability, and switched to Catholic, and switched to an Administrative Republic (this order costs the least total stability to do these three things). After passing the Declaration of Indulgences (which I forgot to pass earlier), I had Great Britain force-convert me to Reformed, leaving me at +3 tolerance of heretics thanks to the Declaration of Indulgences and the Edict of Nantes, with the chance to raise it to +7 later given a spare NI slot. Meanwhile, in the east, the Ottomans met the combined wrath of Italy, Austria, and the Netherlands.

It seems that the only person not aware of this inevitable gank was the Ottomans himself.

The Ottoman war raged on for quite some time, with the Ottomans steadily losing ground to the superior numbers and much better position (the Ottomans had very inconvenient borders for defence). While little went on at home (merely stability regeneration and arsenal building), Austria continued to push along the Crimea, and with little resistance from the Ottomans the trio soon managed to negotiate peace in return for five provinces to Austria.

The following peace was somewhat uneasy, with both sides knowing that they would no doubt be at war again soon (after all, only one of the three attackers had profited thus far). At home I passed Enlist Privateers, swapped Seahawks to National Trade Policy, and reached Government tech 25, allowing me to pick Merchant Adventures, pass the Merchant Shipping Act, move towards Free Trade, and then swap the Merchant Shipping Act back to National Conscripts, thus finishing my economic fixer-upper once I finished regaining stability. Meanwhile, I pushed my New World colonies slightly farther inland and seized a few provinces from the Iroquois. With Russia and Prussia also leaping forward in income as well as Russia burning off most of their inflation, the world (other than the Ottomans) was in much better economic shape than at the start of the session.

The second Ottoman war was significantly more brutal than the first. In the west, the Ottomans decided to scorch their European land and defend Anatolia and the Caucasus, while in the east battles viciously raged along the Indian-Indochinese border. Unfortunately for the Ottomans, Austria and Italy got enough warscore to stability hit them into ceding another five provinces to Austria, then immediately declared war again through the truce. After a few more years of Ottoman defeats, a new peace was agreed on; 5 Asian provinces to the Netherlands.

In France, I started teching Land again and spread my trade as far as I could. By the end of the session, France had come great lengths, going from a 1400s-level economy to being almost exactly tied for the top spot in income, while still maintaining formidable military capability. My tech is somewhat behind (Land in particular) due to the sheer amount of time spent regaining stability, but given how ahead of time Land is that gap will no doubt close shortly.

With the Ottomans brought down a notch and both Russia and France’s sudden prosperity, the economic scene looks much more competitive all of a sudden.

Stats and map
http://www.europa3.ru/cgi-bin/mpsta...e=int&season=comp-2013&game=XVI&yearsave=1600


Comments
This was a relatively unexciting session for France, but a necessary one to remain economically viable. Hopefully next session should involve some more international interaction. The Ottoman wars were fun though, and I felt a great deal of schadenfreude watching them reap the rewards of their isolationist diplomacy. The economic boost really was as simple as it sounds; it’s surprising how easy it is to get an economy running smoothly when you know what to look for.
 
Last edited:

sprites

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how much of these 10000 come from trade?
And , why did you enact edit de nantes , while it is often considered an afful decision , or a trap? the 2% RR on occupied lands do justify it?
 

Pewt

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how much of these 10000 come from trade?
And , why did you enact edit de nantes , while it is often considered an afful decision , or a trap? the 2% RR on occupied lands do justify it?
Pretty much my entire country is wrong religion, so I'm working off Heretic tolerance rather than True Faith tolerance in most places.

Most of the income increase was trade.