The Blue Division

[unmerged(30895)]

This could be a nice historical play:

In 41 after the start of Barbarossa, Germany gets "gifted" one Spanish Infantry Division, to represent the Spanish Volunteers that went to fight the Soviets under German Command. Perhaps even an option to withdrew them if the war starts to go poorly for Germany, or, relations go below a certain influence factor. Two nice historical events.

Apologies now if this has been already mentioned.

 

[Pioniere]

Spanische-Freiwilligen

Greetings to them! Sure no problem this has been mentioned twice.
By me and a some other user for some time ago.
This cud work as an event ting like the Croatian tiger division.
To be granted a Blue division would be something triggered by an event for Germany.
You can’t get the Spanish Blue division if Spain is in the Axis! Because the Blue division was some gift given for Germany as a thanks for the help in the Spanish Civil war if am not wrong! And Franco also tried to stay out of the war a small gift to mend the relation with Germany.
-Nor would you get he Blue division event if you haven given Franco aid in the Civil war.

You don’t need to be sorry. Nice that you mention it!

 

[Czert]

Hmm, but why not add anothers divs to germany ? I mean RLA (rusian liberation army) lead by vlasov and made game even esier for germany ? And another, why not add flying tigers to national china, and volunters div do UK (during bob time perion) and then, why not zilions of others volunters units to another states ?
Sorry if this soun to offenstive/irony - but I cannot help myself - addning volunters divs to any nation can only lead to (more) complains - why not my (favourite) state have not added xxxxx ?

 

[unmerged(17392)]

croatian divisions,

check german event 2031

its a vanilla HOI event .



the blue division is available.

its an HSR event, # 40007

 

[unmerged(17392)]

croatian divisions,

check german event 2031

its a vanilla HOI event .



the blue division is available.

its an HSR event, # 40007

either CORE or HSR have events for the flying tigers. check for it elsewhere and you will find that someone has already thought of it and made an event for it.

 

[unmerged(40779)]

Hmm, but why not add anothers divs to germany ? I mean RLA (rusian liberation army) lead by vlasov and made game even esier for germany ? And another, why not add flying tigers to national china, and volunters div do UK (during bob time perion) and then, why not zilions of others volunters units to another states ?
Sorry if this soun to offenstive/irony - but I cannot help myself - addning volunters divs to any nation can only lead to (more) complains - why not my (favourite) state have not added xxxxx ?

Everyone's favourite, anti-favourite and grandmom's cats semi-favourite countries' volunteer units should indeed be included. As long as they're on divisional scale.

It's historical and easy to code.

Any real arguments against this?

 

[Czert]

Everyone's favourite, anti-favourite and grandmom's cats semi-favourite countries' volunteer units should indeed be included. As long as they're on divisional scale.

It's historical and easy to code.

Any real arguments against this?

No , but as I say - include all or nothing. But is here another problem - some people can want non-full divs units too.

 

[unmerged(60583)]

Rather, why not simply make an all-warring-countries random event which would add some 2-12 manpower to your nation, from some nation bordering on one or more nations involved in the war? Add MP, increase relations, then you build whatever's necessary.

One thing which makes me suspicious about this game is that the 8 000 Swedish volunteers fighting for the SS on the East Front are never mentioned. Just because the devs are Swedes themselves, I bet!

 

[unmerged(56295)]

One thing which makes me suspicious about this game is that the 8 000 Swedish volunteers fighting for the SS on the East Front are never mentioned. Just because the devs are Swedes themselves, I bet!

Never heard of 6000 swedish volunteers fighting for the germans. How about some sort of source to support this claim.

 

[Czert]

Never heard of 6000 swedish volunteers fighting for the germans. How about some sort of source to support this claim.

Try Wiki (I lazy to find correct link).

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

One thing which makes me suspicious about this game is that the 8 000 Swedish volunteers fighting for the SS on the East Front are never mentioned. Just because the devs are Swedes themselves, I bet!

Better check your sources again

http://www.feldgrau.com/sweden.html

In total between 130 and 300 Swedes are thought to have served in the German Wehrmacht. David Littlejohn lists the number of Swedish volunteers at 130 in volume 3 of "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich", 150 volunteers are listed according to Swiss Dr. Franz Riedweg - the head of Germanic Volunteer recruiting, 175 volunteers are listed by H. Picker in "Hitler's Table Talk", and 315 volunteers are listed by Gottlob Berger in an unpublished biography. 300 is the generally accepted number of volunteers in the German Wehrmacht

 

[unmerged(60583)]

All I went on was a history talk in the radio. It mentioned "at least 8 000, but by some sources as much as 12 000 Swedish volunteers" (primarily to the Finnish/Soviet wars, of course).

Denmark (where I'm from) had 4 000 or so military volunteers (Freikoprs Dänemark et al), I think, and a good deal more taking "regular" jobs in the war-industry... Which leads me back to the topic: I think just about every country should get a boost in MP when at war, but that should be about it. No divisions of this or that, just the manpower to make 'em.

 

[unmerged(19997)]

I also read where up to 10,000 Swedish volunteers fought in Finland, see if I can find source later.
but I think a random event where a country gets x manpower would be way to go as many countries have volunteers that came and helped them.
For example many Irish crossed over the border and fought with the UK and the Commonwealth
And France of course has its Famous Foreign Legion.
And during WWII hundreds of thousands of Mexicans came to the US to work as farm workers , and while not serving in the Militiary they freed other men to serve in the Arm forces.

 

[unmerged(57808)]

The difference my lad(s)..

I also read where up to 10,000 Swedish volunteers fought in Finland, see if I can find source later.

Yeah, but there is a difference there....

About the finnish winter war thing, this sparked a lot of sympathy, like Spain, and this attracted many of the same people... yes most of the volounteers for Finland were not fascists at all, but just wanted to help out the finns....

Actually Finland was not even allied to Germany during the winter war. They became allied afterwards, mostly to retaliate, a monumental mistake.

So mixing the winter war into some fascist thing is very, very wrong!

Then of course, later you had the continuation war. But that was mainly without swedish support (or to put it differently, during the winter war the volounters were supplied by the swedish government, during the continuation war they were not).

Yes, the Germans fielded voluntary divisions, but they were not part of the winter war, they came later. These divisions were however very few, and served mostly propaganda functions.

Just read the link provided further up, and wiki also.

As for the suggestion to include voluntary divisions, yeah sure. Some could probably on the allied side. But including on the axis side could be problematic, as these people were really evil (most were ss), and thus not in line with patching policy.

 

[unmerged(40779)]

Yes, the Germans fielded voluntary divisions, but they were not part of the winter war, they came later. These divisions were however very few, and served mostly propaganda functions.

Sorry, but I have to ask you - what the hell are you talking about? Germans never had any volunteers in Finland (well, perhaps the SS-Division Nord was such on principle, but only as an unit - no one ever asked if they wanted to fight in Finland or not!). They did, though, have a 200,000 men strong army defending the Nothern half of Finland (=Lapland, mainly), and were definitely more than propaganda units! Two of the few German elite mountain divisions were, for example, stationed in Lapland for nearly the whole war (1941-1944).

As for the suggestion to include voluntary divisions, yeah sure. Some could probably on the allied side. But including on the axis side could be problematic, as these people were really evil (most were ss), and thus not in line with patching policy.

We have the 1.SS-Panzerdivision Leibstadanrte ADOLF HITLER and 3.SS-Panzerdivision Totenkopf in the game already. Besides such as Dirlewanger and Kaminski brigades, which weren't actually front line units at all, and not even divisional scale, I challenge you to find a foreign volunteer unit more "EVIL" than those two German units.

 

[unmerged(54933)]

some foreigners units in Waffen-SS:
many of them never had full table power, some were made from other dibanded units, other were only brigade size...

4th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Brigade Netherlands - Dutch
5th SS Volunteer Sturmbrigade Wallonien - Walloon
6th SS Volunteer Sturmbrigade Langemarck - Flemish
7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen - Volksdeutsche personnel from Croatia, Serbia, Hungary and Romania
11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland - Scandinavian
13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian)
14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Galizien (1st Ukrainian)
15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Latvian)
17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen - Romanian
18th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Horst Wessel - Hungarian
19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Latvian)
20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian)
21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian)
22nd SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Maria Theresia - Hungarian
23rd Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Kama - Croatia and Bosnia and muslims
25th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hunyadi (1st Hungarian)
26th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Hungarian)
30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian)
25th SS Grenadier Division Hunyadi (1st Hungarian)
29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Italian)
31st SS Volunteer Grenadier Division - Serbia
33rd Waffen Cavalry Division of the SS (3rd Hungarian)
33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French)
37th SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Lützow - Hungarian
SS Volunteer Grenadier Brigade Landstorm Nederland - Dutch
Kaminski Brigade - Russians and Belorussians

 

[unmerged(54933)]

Both Russians and UK had many of foreign units in their armies:
Czechoslovak:
1st Czechoslovak army korps in USSR
1st Czechoslovak armoured brigade in the UK (developed from infantry brigade)
Dont forget the Czechoslovak Squadrons in the RAF
Polish:
Polish I Corps in the West (1 Korpus Wojska Polskiego) in the UK
consisting of: 1st Armoured Division, 1st Para Brigade
Polish II Corps (2 Korpus Wojska Polskiego) in the UK
consisting of: 3rd and 5th Infantry Divisions, 2nd Armoured Division
Polish First Army (1 Armia Wojska Polskiego) in the USSR
consistong of: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th Infantry Divisions, Armoured Bde, Cavalry Bde
Polish Second Army (2 Armia Wojska Polskiego) in the USSR
Consisting of: 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th Inf. Divs, 16th Armoured Bde
Dont forget many of Polish Squadrons in RAF

French fighter unit Normandie-Niemen squadron in the USSR
Many Holland, french, belgian, norway units served in the UK in smaller kontingents (like kommandos, independent battalions, squadrons and so)

 

[unmerged(54763)]

some foreigners units in Waffen-SS:
many of them never had full table power, some were made from other dibanded units, other were only brigade size...

4th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Brigade Netherlands - Dutch
5th SS Volunteer Sturmbrigade Wallonien - Walloon
6th SS Volunteer Sturmbrigade Langemarck - Flemish
7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen - Volksdeutsche personnel from Croatia, Serbia, Hungary and Romania
11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland - Scandinavian
13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian)
14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Galizien (1st Ukrainian)
15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Latvian)
17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen - Romanian
18th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Horst Wessel - Hungarian
19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Latvian)
20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian)
21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian)
22nd SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Maria Theresia - Hungarian
23rd Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Kama - Croatia and Bosnia and muslims
25th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hunyadi (1st Hungarian)
26th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Hungarian)
30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian)
25th SS Grenadier Division Hunyadi (1st Hungarian)
29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Italian)
31st SS Volunteer Grenadier Division - Serbia
33rd Waffen Cavalry Division of the SS (3rd Hungarian)
33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French)
37th SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Lützow - Hungarian
SS Volunteer Grenadier Brigade Landstorm Nederland - Dutch
Kaminski Brigade - Russians and Belorussians

From Croatian side allso two elite voluntier formations,(size of brigade each)Croatian Legion DON,And Croatian Legion STALINGRAD.

Later(Legion Stalingrad) was only non-german unit that OKW used for decisive fighting inside Stalingrad.

 

[unmerged(40779)]

From Croatian side allso two elite voluntier formations,(size of brigade each)Croatian Legion DON,And Croatian Legion STALINGRAD.

Later(Legion Stalingrad) was only non-german unit that OKW used for decisive fighting inside Stalingrad.

Legion Stalingrad? There's never been such. "Infanterie Regiment 369 (kroatisches)" did get destroyed in Stalingrad, though... But it was the only Croatina ground formation that fought in the Eastern Front. Legion Don must thereby be the same unit. Neither of these words are official, though.

 

[unmerged(54763)]

Legion Stalingrad? There's never been such. "Infanterie Regiment 369 (kroatisches)" did get destroyed in Stalingrad, though... But it was the only Croatina ground formation that fought in the Eastern Front. Legion Don must thereby be the same unit. Neither of these words are official, though.

I dont know to be honest why records of those formations doesnt exist.

I am great postal-stamp collector,and i posses amongst others 2 postal stamps,of Croatian Post,released in 1942 in honour of those two formations.One stamp with Croat soldier ine GER uniform holding hand-granate, greenish-Croatian Legion Don,and other redish, the same soldier holds mashine gun in city ruins,-Croatian Leghion Stalingrad.

But,from part of Croatian involvement in WW2,datas are realy obscure in Western literature realy. For example there were 31 Croatian pilot that gained ASE status in Luftwafe,amongst them one with 52 victories.
Problem is maybe becouse their incorporation in German military was usualy wery perfect so the were considered full-fledged German troups.