While beautiful aesthetically, AOW4 doesn't work in term of gameplay in many ways.
The strategic map generator is much better than that of Planetfall but it is still not as good as that of AOWIII. We need to be able to sail rivers, not just have them as an obstacle in out path. As a wargamer I know that when a map tries to portray a land that is too big, rivers become too small and almost useless and the whole immersion is lost. MAKE THE MAP COME ALIVE BY CHANGING THE PERCEPTION OF “SCALE”.
In the real world RIVERS ARE ALWAYS USED TO TRACE THE BORDERS BETWEEN COUNTRIES. They should be created with that in mind and should be one hex wide. It should be possible to sail them.
We'll see what the devs have in mind regarding the sea aspect of the game. Right now there is no point to use a boat. FLYERS and Teleporters MAKE BOATS UNNECESSARY (flyers should need somewhere to land every once in a while. If they start their movement while flying over water, the next turn thay should land, regroup with a boat... or drown. Also boats can do a forced march which makes no sense and units on a boat fight pretty much like if they were on land which also makes no sense -
I liked the whole AOW2 boat system, where boats were a specific entity instead than being simplified by simply having units entering water and become boats. PORTS WOULD BECOME MORE IMPORTANT IF UNITS COULD JUST LAND AND MOVE WITH NO LIMITATIONS WHEN DISEMBARKING IN PORTS.
The game as it is, is a bit boring, I used to be against teleportation at all cost, but nothing happens for many turns with units just moving around, so I can see where that need comes from. Still I feel it is an ugly fix for an ugly problem. There has never been a movie that showed entire armies teleporting around as it would be very silly and In reality that would be (and is in AOW4) a strategic nightmare. IN ANY CASE TELEPORTERS ARE ANNOYING and should be limited A LOT or made optional.
I would like a little more interaction with the tactical map. If an item has to be found in a location, it should be possible to pick it up during the battle and then retreat without necessarily winning the battle. Imagine an almost impossible battle to win, where one could only use his skills to steal the treasure and leave!
To add some variation/surprise to the game, It should be possible to capture a leader too, not only heroes. LEADERS being immortal could not be executed, but in order to set them free one should capture the fortress where they are held prisoners.
A few spell are a bit overkill “spell of oblivion” can instantly kill anything for example (even if for a limited amount of time).
Enemy Leaders I am at war with, occasionally contact me to tell me someone insulted them. The whole “XY insulted my empire” line is really silly (many criticized it also in planetfall) . It should become something that a real diplomat would say. My enemies in any case should not contact me for trivial things.
Scouts are useless. The whole map can even be exposed with “spying shadows” or other empire developments. That is another thing that removes an important aspect of strategy. The “sensing” of enemy units is the same. Enemies are not “sensed” they are spotted by scouts. I hated that in Planetfall, but I agree that in a SCI-FI situation enemies could be spotted with machines, radars etc... NOT HERE!
Whatever you do, do not allow to unveil the whole map (either or both surface and underground) simply with a spell or an empire development. Some of my most fun games in AOW II and III had my capital city hidden in a corner, sometimes underground and unspotted until the end. That allowed me to slowly take down my enemies who were in theory much stronger than me but could not find me. In multiplayer that is the source for a lot of fun. If there is a spell that uncovers part of a map, do not make it a death sentence for someone who plays guerrilla like that. Also the fact of uncovering part of the surface world doesn't mean that with the same spell the underground should be uncovered too. Sometimes things that are conceived in order to “mop up” in single player are really the death of the best multiplayer games. Maybe the underground at least should be impossible to uncover without scouting it out.
When a castle is under siege, nobody should be able to get in or get out, what is it the point otherwise??? The units inside should only be able to attack the hero who started the siege. An allied to the city under siege should only be able to attack the enemies outside, but not to get inside the castle.
The reward system is a good idea but after my main leader abscends to the pantheon ONLY all my future leaders are able to get the goodies he conquered (new clothes/cosmetics). It should be the other way around. Those items should only be available to the leader that has abscended. They should still be unavailable to the others. New leaders should still have to unlock them.
I really used to like the invisible cities of the wood elves in AOW2. This game desperately needs diversification. Races should have their own unique things.
Again regarding diversification I really don't like how dragons can be spawned after the Dragon Dawn patch. Dragons should be rare. Yeah, I see the whole “imperium” concept has been designed to limit the spawning of tier 4 units, but it feels quite forced and unrealistic. Something else should be figured out.
Right now I can play game after game without building a single defense for my city. That should be addressed because something that made AOWIII very special and fun were those events like the “march of troll” that could tear the world apart if one had not planned in advance. I would like to see events again and have all sort of mosters/units/animals invading the map. I wasn't crazy to see different races of wild animals "organizing" themselves and attacking empires in AOWIII. I would have rather see one specific kind of unit doing it like in the march of the trolls. So we would have a “march of the XY” where XY would be ANY ONE type of unit (wolves, wyverns, giants...) If that was to be set for one random unit out of the many included in the game that would sure offer some surprises and unique situations.
I don't like the fact that roads are built automatically and that any unit can do that. I liked the builder in AOWIII (and it could also build bridges!!)
The thing I really don't like about AOW4 is that everyone can get/build pretty much everything, and pretty much any spell can be acquired by any player. Kill variety and you kill this kind of games, by destroying replayability. Choices should be definitive! For example if one choses two “nature” books all shadow books should become unavailable (just an example).
There was a feature in several TotalWar games that I always was fond of. Leaders and heroes would acquire spontaneously certain attributes without the player choosing them. For example a leader who spent many turns inside a city would lose his military skills over time but become more proficient in political ones. It was also be possible to gain negative traits. A hero who would spend too much time away from the main cities of his world, would become wild or lazy.... (The game I am referring to is Rome TW2, definitely deserves some attention.) I have always believed that it would be a lot of fun if the skills a hero gains were not chosen by the player but were random. As it is now players pretty much chose the same skills for every hero, but in my way they would have to work with what they have and maybe dismiss heroes who have become lazy or useless over time).
Edit: I shouldn't be able to use whatever object i pick up anywhere with any hero instantly regardless of where the object was picked up. In AOW3 one would have to send objects to other heroes and it would take some time for them to receive them. Earlier in the past, objects were teleported (I didn't like that but at least I couldn't use them with two different heroes in the same turn). Avoid teleporting!!! Sending objects is the way to go.
For now that's it. PLEASE developers, do not underestimate our criticism regarding teleporters. I understand the game is slow at times, but moving armies or forming them closer to the front has always been a major strategic issue in any war. Teleporters are a lazy solution for that. They spoil the game by making the terrain: mountains, lakes, roads, forests USELESS.
Dragons have quickly become a bore. Since the Dragon-Dawn expansion there is simply too much of them. Creatures like those should be rare and unique, . When one gets the chance to have them, they should only be spawn in specific places (NOT in EVERY CITY!!!). For example they should only be available in places with a specific climate, or they should be randomly available ONLY in certain cities in order to create a logistic handicap at least for moving them around....
Then again there is the horrible teleporting issue, which makes completely pointless the geography and simplifies strategic choices for the newbies. Unless teleporters are removed or at least limited drastically, why am I even talking about strategic choices? :/
More coming when I have more time to play.
------------ Mid September Update
ALRIGHT I am playing now the last September patch (83something) and I still have the same impression. I get a message that invites me to speak about the AI and whether it is dong things that surprise me... No it is not BUT THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH THIS GAME!
I am a filmmaker and I teach screenwriting other than having been playing AOW since 1999 - I KNOW what the problem with the entertainment in this game is. IT IS ALL TOO LINEAR! There are no complications, there is nothing that stops me from going from town to town (wasting a lot of turns being bored while just moving units around) and conquering one after the other the AI's cities. AND NO the solution is not a dumb teleport network to put an end to the boredom as soon as possible! The solution is to create COMPLICATIONS for the player! (teleporters SPOIL THE GAME make the geography and all defensive strategies useless!!) - Cities must be under attack from within, THE EVENTS of AOWIII were a great idea. They would force players to defend themselves! An army of trolls invading the world? GREAT!
Also once an enemy Leader has been defeated, his armies should not just disappear! In real life they would become outlaws or mercenaries and join the first player that pays them enough! Or stay true to their former lord and fight to the end! - In other words I have played many games of AOW IV by now and not once I was forced to defend myself, I DON'T EVEN BUILD DEFENSES FOR MY CITIES!!! BIG BIG BIG turnoff.
The strategic map generator is much better than that of Planetfall but it is still not as good as that of AOWIII. We need to be able to sail rivers, not just have them as an obstacle in out path. As a wargamer I know that when a map tries to portray a land that is too big, rivers become too small and almost useless and the whole immersion is lost. MAKE THE MAP COME ALIVE BY CHANGING THE PERCEPTION OF “SCALE”.
In the real world RIVERS ARE ALWAYS USED TO TRACE THE BORDERS BETWEEN COUNTRIES. They should be created with that in mind and should be one hex wide. It should be possible to sail them.
We'll see what the devs have in mind regarding the sea aspect of the game. Right now there is no point to use a boat. FLYERS and Teleporters MAKE BOATS UNNECESSARY (flyers should need somewhere to land every once in a while. If they start their movement while flying over water, the next turn thay should land, regroup with a boat... or drown. Also boats can do a forced march which makes no sense and units on a boat fight pretty much like if they were on land which also makes no sense -
I liked the whole AOW2 boat system, where boats were a specific entity instead than being simplified by simply having units entering water and become boats. PORTS WOULD BECOME MORE IMPORTANT IF UNITS COULD JUST LAND AND MOVE WITH NO LIMITATIONS WHEN DISEMBARKING IN PORTS.
The game as it is, is a bit boring, I used to be against teleportation at all cost, but nothing happens for many turns with units just moving around, so I can see where that need comes from. Still I feel it is an ugly fix for an ugly problem. There has never been a movie that showed entire armies teleporting around as it would be very silly and In reality that would be (and is in AOW4) a strategic nightmare. IN ANY CASE TELEPORTERS ARE ANNOYING and should be limited A LOT or made optional.
I would like a little more interaction with the tactical map. If an item has to be found in a location, it should be possible to pick it up during the battle and then retreat without necessarily winning the battle. Imagine an almost impossible battle to win, where one could only use his skills to steal the treasure and leave!
To add some variation/surprise to the game, It should be possible to capture a leader too, not only heroes. LEADERS being immortal could not be executed, but in order to set them free one should capture the fortress where they are held prisoners.
A few spell are a bit overkill “spell of oblivion” can instantly kill anything for example (even if for a limited amount of time).
Enemy Leaders I am at war with, occasionally contact me to tell me someone insulted them. The whole “XY insulted my empire” line is really silly (many criticized it also in planetfall) . It should become something that a real diplomat would say. My enemies in any case should not contact me for trivial things.
Scouts are useless. The whole map can even be exposed with “spying shadows” or other empire developments. That is another thing that removes an important aspect of strategy. The “sensing” of enemy units is the same. Enemies are not “sensed” they are spotted by scouts. I hated that in Planetfall, but I agree that in a SCI-FI situation enemies could be spotted with machines, radars etc... NOT HERE!
Whatever you do, do not allow to unveil the whole map (either or both surface and underground) simply with a spell or an empire development. Some of my most fun games in AOW II and III had my capital city hidden in a corner, sometimes underground and unspotted until the end. That allowed me to slowly take down my enemies who were in theory much stronger than me but could not find me. In multiplayer that is the source for a lot of fun. If there is a spell that uncovers part of a map, do not make it a death sentence for someone who plays guerrilla like that. Also the fact of uncovering part of the surface world doesn't mean that with the same spell the underground should be uncovered too. Sometimes things that are conceived in order to “mop up” in single player are really the death of the best multiplayer games. Maybe the underground at least should be impossible to uncover without scouting it out.
When a castle is under siege, nobody should be able to get in or get out, what is it the point otherwise??? The units inside should only be able to attack the hero who started the siege. An allied to the city under siege should only be able to attack the enemies outside, but not to get inside the castle.
The reward system is a good idea but after my main leader abscends to the pantheon ONLY all my future leaders are able to get the goodies he conquered (new clothes/cosmetics). It should be the other way around. Those items should only be available to the leader that has abscended. They should still be unavailable to the others. New leaders should still have to unlock them.
I really used to like the invisible cities of the wood elves in AOW2. This game desperately needs diversification. Races should have their own unique things.
Again regarding diversification I really don't like how dragons can be spawned after the Dragon Dawn patch. Dragons should be rare. Yeah, I see the whole “imperium” concept has been designed to limit the spawning of tier 4 units, but it feels quite forced and unrealistic. Something else should be figured out.
Right now I can play game after game without building a single defense for my city. That should be addressed because something that made AOWIII very special and fun were those events like the “march of troll” that could tear the world apart if one had not planned in advance. I would like to see events again and have all sort of mosters/units/animals invading the map. I wasn't crazy to see different races of wild animals "organizing" themselves and attacking empires in AOWIII. I would have rather see one specific kind of unit doing it like in the march of the trolls. So we would have a “march of the XY” where XY would be ANY ONE type of unit (wolves, wyverns, giants...) If that was to be set for one random unit out of the many included in the game that would sure offer some surprises and unique situations.
I don't like the fact that roads are built automatically and that any unit can do that. I liked the builder in AOWIII (and it could also build bridges!!)
The thing I really don't like about AOW4 is that everyone can get/build pretty much everything, and pretty much any spell can be acquired by any player. Kill variety and you kill this kind of games, by destroying replayability. Choices should be definitive! For example if one choses two “nature” books all shadow books should become unavailable (just an example).
There was a feature in several TotalWar games that I always was fond of. Leaders and heroes would acquire spontaneously certain attributes without the player choosing them. For example a leader who spent many turns inside a city would lose his military skills over time but become more proficient in political ones. It was also be possible to gain negative traits. A hero who would spend too much time away from the main cities of his world, would become wild or lazy.... (The game I am referring to is Rome TW2, definitely deserves some attention.) I have always believed that it would be a lot of fun if the skills a hero gains were not chosen by the player but were random. As it is now players pretty much chose the same skills for every hero, but in my way they would have to work with what they have and maybe dismiss heroes who have become lazy or useless over time).
Edit: I shouldn't be able to use whatever object i pick up anywhere with any hero instantly regardless of where the object was picked up. In AOW3 one would have to send objects to other heroes and it would take some time for them to receive them. Earlier in the past, objects were teleported (I didn't like that but at least I couldn't use them with two different heroes in the same turn). Avoid teleporting!!! Sending objects is the way to go.
For now that's it. PLEASE developers, do not underestimate our criticism regarding teleporters. I understand the game is slow at times, but moving armies or forming them closer to the front has always been a major strategic issue in any war. Teleporters are a lazy solution for that. They spoil the game by making the terrain: mountains, lakes, roads, forests USELESS.
Dragons have quickly become a bore. Since the Dragon-Dawn expansion there is simply too much of them. Creatures like those should be rare and unique, . When one gets the chance to have them, they should only be spawn in specific places (NOT in EVERY CITY!!!). For example they should only be available in places with a specific climate, or they should be randomly available ONLY in certain cities in order to create a logistic handicap at least for moving them around....
Then again there is the horrible teleporting issue, which makes completely pointless the geography and simplifies strategic choices for the newbies. Unless teleporters are removed or at least limited drastically, why am I even talking about strategic choices? :/
More coming when I have more time to play.
------------ Mid September Update
ALRIGHT I am playing now the last September patch (83something) and I still have the same impression. I get a message that invites me to speak about the AI and whether it is dong things that surprise me... No it is not BUT THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM WITH THIS GAME!
I am a filmmaker and I teach screenwriting other than having been playing AOW since 1999 - I KNOW what the problem with the entertainment in this game is. IT IS ALL TOO LINEAR! There are no complications, there is nothing that stops me from going from town to town (wasting a lot of turns being bored while just moving units around) and conquering one after the other the AI's cities. AND NO the solution is not a dumb teleport network to put an end to the boredom as soon as possible! The solution is to create COMPLICATIONS for the player! (teleporters SPOIL THE GAME make the geography and all defensive strategies useless!!) - Cities must be under attack from within, THE EVENTS of AOWIII were a great idea. They would force players to defend themselves! An army of trolls invading the world? GREAT!
Also once an enemy Leader has been defeated, his armies should not just disappear! In real life they would become outlaws or mercenaries and join the first player that pays them enough! Or stay true to their former lord and fight to the end! - In other words I have played many games of AOW IV by now and not once I was forced to defend myself, I DON'T EVEN BUILD DEFENSES FOR MY CITIES!!! BIG BIG BIG turnoff.
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