Source?
Source? A search through all localisation files resulted in no proof of that statement.
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The bizarre Jewish state of Khazar
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Source?
Source? A search through all localisation files resulted in no proof of that statement.
To find that would probably involve looking through 20-200 pages of threads. I can do that... but; ehh can't be bothered, we are talking about over an hours worth of trawling. Maybe if you took a look through the suggestion threads and dev diaries only you'd see much more mentions of that sortof thing, otherwise it's gonna be a lot of work to even find anyone asking a question about jews in a thread that devs have posted in.
If you mean the source for the fact they have their plans for the game for the next year already mapped out; that would be in the sunset invasion video interview thing that went for an hour.
He may have eu3 confused with the main mod for it (magni mundi)... which had very explicit mention of jews... and that mod included expelling them for money.
I don't remember them being in vanilla eu3 but they were certainly in eu rome and victoria 2.
There are no jews in ck2 because there were no jewish rulers in th ck2 timeframe.
The Khazars and its ruler are a leftover from ck1, there certainly weren't any Khazar rulers in1066 anymore. The current ruler of the Khazars is a made up character.
The presumed Jewish rulers in Ethiopa sren't in the game because they weren't Jews (they are only referred to as Jews from the 20th century onwards) and even uf they were there realm isn't even on the map ( to small, to insignificant).
The Khazars and its ruler are a leftover from ck1, there certainly weren't any Khazar rulers in1066 anymore. The current ruler of the Khazars is a made up character.
The presumed Jewish rulers in Ethiopa sren't in the game because they weren't Jews (they are only referred to as Jews from the 20th century onwards) and even uf they were there realm isn't even on the map ( to small, to insignificant).
Incorrect. There were no Aztec rulers in the timeframe either.
I don't want to bicker — but I'm fairly sure there's no Zoroastrian ruler in the CK2 timeframe, either.
If Paradox really wants this subject to die, perhaps they would begin by being more forthcoming and honest about the subject. It is a fair question, and it deserves a fair answer.
because historically in those times,the jews were hated trouought the world,it would be a very touchy subject for paradox to simulate such behaivour.And to use them as traders would again be obsolete,because there are no resources in game.
CK II + has a decision to take a loan if you have a "Jewish comunity" in your province.I think this is the best compromise,to represent the jews who were known as loan sharks.
CK II + has a decision to take a loan if you have a "Jewish comunity" in your province.I think this is the best compromise,to represent the jews who were known as loan sharks.
How is not implementing Judaism 'political correctness'? Wouldn't it be the opposite?
You're telling me that although I've been reading this forum since six months before game release and check it almost every day that I've missed this document that tells us the details of all the future DLCs and you won't tell anybody where it is because you can't be bothered. Really?
That's all and great, except for the fact that persecution of religious minorities, i.e. "heretics", already exists whenever the Pope asks you about a "heretic stronghold in your realm" and you respond "I will strike against these heretics-County X gets "forced conversion, local revolt modifier increased by X amount.""
Heretics or proto-Protestants were hated by most rulers of this era as well, and yet they're in the game, so it would be a complete double standard to include them and yet ignore any Jewish population for the same reason.
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What it with the Kingdom of Semien? And isn't Isaac (A jewish name) the count of Itil and Duke of Khazaria (ingame) a Jew? But yes... This are not many. So I can understand paradox don't want to make it... But why is Zoroastrian then in the game?
Read my entire post.
I already gave you the answer.
EDIT
But if you don't believe me, here is one of the developers saying the same thing
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Ah, okay. Why did you know, that they weren't Jews? After what I read, people say it BEFORE the 20th century "The 16th century geographer Livio Sanuto referred to the kingdom as "Land of the Jews" ("Judaeorum Terra") in his "Tabula X" map published in 1588." or "Leo Africanus also referred to the kingdom of Beta Israel as "Land of the Jews" ("terra de' Giudei").".
That would be interesting to know. And small... Semien, Dembiya and Wegera. It could be a county. But it's okay,if they devs don't want to add it. It's there choose.
And the fact is that in CK1 Jewish Khazaria was completely destroyed and converted before 1100, so it really doesn't serve any gameplay purpose there (other than adding some flavour). While I find idea of playing as Jewish Khazaria amusing, you are correct that they weren't independent anymore. However there were still some Jewish Khazars, but we don't know their names or if they had any position of power. Khazars were tolerant and there were also large number of Pagan, Christian and Muslim Khazars, so representing them with one religion or another is equally correct, there's no hard evidence that the Jews ever formed a majority of Khazar population.
I don't remember any Khazar kingdom in vanilla?
And besides I don't understand why it was added in some mods given it was gone shortly before the start.
And besides I don't understand why it was added in some mods given it was gone shortly before the start.
Duchy of Khazars, starts as an Orthodox Turkish vassal of the Cumans. Typically gone in a flash or converts.
The reason it's added is simple: it's a nice what if scenario (what if the Khazars were not fully wiped out by the Kipchaks), and it makes for one of two plausible jewish playable starts (along with Gondar/Semien/Beta Israel). I love seeing Isaac (or Yitzhak as was more likely the Khazar form) and his dynasty survive in those rare cases he does, and in other games I see Alania conquer it so it is just a little stronger when the Cuman Horde attacks.
Realistically there are more realms on the CK map that ought not exist in their current form, and cultures that aren't historically correct. Plus some rulers are completely made up since there just isn't any info to be found on who ruled in e.g. Grassland Cheremisa in 1082.
Some of the "Scottish" kings should be Norman or French for example, in fact much of the nobility in Western Europe should be French given that was the language and culture they had. However that'd kill gameplay and lead to a uniform French Europe... not fun for anyone not in the BBB.
It's a mix between historical correctness and what is actually fun to play.
There are definitely Jews in EU:Rome, the first Crusader Kings, and both Victorias. I think this urban legend derives from the fact that the Hearts of Iron series glosses over the Holocaust. This is more a cultural difference than anything else; Americans tend to think it should be acknowledged, while Europeans tend to believe that it’s in poor taste to put it in a game, especially one where you’re playing the Third Reich. Even those games have plenty of individual Jews, for instance Albert Einstein; it’s just that their religion isn’t relevant to gameplay.
And yet landowners arent the only characters in the game. Theres several people in your court, some of them working working for you. Like this guy:
So where's my jewish castillian money maker eh?
Jews were in the retinues of several medieval rulers, mostly in iberia and the muslim word, but not exclusively. All I ever wanted is for a jewish courtier to pop up in my court from time to time, you know, just like the conveyor belt of lowborn women that tend to appear in there, only with some actual usefulness to me. In the end of the day we wont come to an understanding so yeah whatever, thats what mods are for.All I ever said is that a) jews were not so absent as the game seems to suggest and b) its a puzzling decision to cherry pick one religion out of so many to not include in the game when everything else under the moon that makes even marginal sense is in there (hi zoroastrians), and the "why bother going through the trouble of adding a whole new religion" falls flat when I, an amateurish modder at best, can add a new religion and 3 cultures with phony names in under an hour (plus whatever time it takes to do the symbol, that I cant do). For good measure one only needs to look at how many religions Lux Invicta added.
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We don't have to come to an understanding, Paradox won't add Jewish religion and characters to the game and they gave their reasons why they won't do that. Now that you don't believe them, is totally up to you.