The BBB
- Thread starter BobbyDylan
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This always stunned me as they almost never won historically, or won only temporarily. Who do you play as?
Seriously. How do I stop them. They're taking all the things!!!
What ? France ? Taking what ? In your game ?
I was playing as Portugal and France took on and _won_ against Spain (Castille + Granada), Aragon, Austria, Lorraine, plus a pile of other powers. I really have no idea. Other than that the BBB is _back_ with a vengeance. I'm really looking forward to seeing how my Norse/Norse France (Francia + Occitain, sans Troyes and Burgundy) does in my CK2 import.
Beside my Norse/Norse Lotharingia+ (Lotharingia + upper burgundy + troyes), Norse/Norse Germany (Pomerania + Germany), Norse/Norse Poland (plus Duchies of Lithuania, Grodno, Prussia, and Scalovia)... um, yes, I notice a bit of a pattern here. >.>
Anyway, back on topic, I expect beating down the BBB to be a national sport much like it was in EUIII.
Good luck,
-Atma
Beside my Norse/Norse Lotharingia+ (Lotharingia + upper burgundy + troyes), Norse/Norse Germany (Pomerania + Germany), Norse/Norse Poland (plus Duchies of Lithuania, Grodno, Prussia, and Scalovia)... um, yes, I notice a bit of a pattern here. >.>
Anyway, back on topic, I expect beating down the BBB to be a national sport much like it was in EUIII.
Good luck,
-Atma
In the Europa Universalis period, when France had competent rulers and generals it took all the Germans to fight them to a standstill.
Only because Great Britain, Austria, Spain, United Provinces, Prussia and eventually even Russia were prepared to keep the BBB in check.
Even if they were kept in check more or less, they still ate a large bunch of Western HRE states, penetrated into Italy, rampaged through Low Countries and had everyone allying against them every few decades between 1500-1800.
Also, there is a reason why during 18th century French was almost Lingua Franca amongst European nobility... A cultural victory?
This is just a common misconception. they actually won the majority of wars/battles they were involved in throughout their history.
Euh..... we won a lot of wars during XVIth and XVIIthe century (look at the french border in 1450 and in 1700).
Just a anglo saxon joke on french during WWII that become a stupid legend (France won a lot fo wars and battles during history).
i think this is only a common popular taunt these days
especially for modern era after ze germans beat you and proclaimed an empire. might be have you not abandoned/lost american holdings americans and the rest of the world would be speaking french ;-)
Well, Napoleon didi quite well (temporarily), maybe because he wasn´t French. I´ve read some like funny history of French warfare, but enough trolling (it is true, that France´s biggest "successes" came after the timeframe of this game). I think France had it´s moments, but seriously - all of Europe allied against them? When? Except for Napoleon, it usually worked as always. France+allies vs. whoever+allies.
From the gameplay prospective, I think France will be quite strong, but certainly not unbeatable even with only middle sized countries. There is always a way how to bring somebody down.
From the gameplay prospective, I think France will be quite strong, but certainly not unbeatable even with only middle sized countries. There is always a way how to bring somebody down.
Yes true and French money made the Swedish Army possible during the 30 years war. Sweden a nation with nearly 2 million inhabitants and 250 000 soldiers...
Not to forget French support for American independence. Without France and Spain deciding to kick Britains butt when they had a big colonial revolt against them, Britain would very probably have succeeded in taking the revolting colonies back.
Probably one of the few times that the Royal Navy really got their butts hurt by the French navy.
It's a combination of France's size and wealth and its ridiculously effective (I won't say OP, but you could probably argue that point) National Ideas and the fact that it is a 'lucky' nation in game terms.
Code:
FRA_ideas = {
start = {
diplomatic_upkeep = 2
global_manpower_modifier = 0.20
}
bonus = {
discipline = 0.10
}
trigger = {
OR = {
tag = FRA
tag = RFR
}
}
free = yes #will be added at load.
french_language_in_all_courts = {
vassal_income = 0.10
}
elan = {
land_morale = 0.33
recover_army_morale_speed = 0.02
}
estates_general = {
global_tax_modifier = 0.1
}
native_trading_principles = {
reduced_native_attacks = yes
}
vauban_fortifications = {
defensiveness = 0.40
}
the_philosophes = {
technology_cost = -0.1
}
liberty_egalite_fraternity = {
tolerance_heathen = 2
tolerance_heretic = 2
}
}You know that France doesn't have any of that at demo start except the luck (which you can turn off in the settings), the +20% manpower and the two extra diplomatic upkeep slots?
Yeah, I know, but 20% extra manpower, on top of their already huge manpower reserves and the fact that in 1492 it is more or less unified and already very wealthy. As a player, you probably wouldn't need to worry about money or manpower, and even just fighting them in the demo is impossible. I've never been able to beat them so far. Élan should definitely come much later.You know that France doesn't have any of that at demo start except the luck (which you can turn off in the settings), the +20% manpower and the two extra diplomatic upkeep slots?
Indeed, but what is also true is that this wasn´t a war where all of Europe (+- Russia) fought against France. It was more like everybody against Habsburgs (even catholic France, because of the political reasons). Other than that in the timeframe.
Hundred years war. My God did France messed that one up. It won, barely, in the end. Saved by woman who was seeing ghosts. Personally I consider this a victory, but I hope we can agree on that it was tough one.
Wars in Italy - temporarily France won, but later was pushed back and back. Here, I would say France just had too many enemies. Something remained in it´s hands, but not as much as it hoped.
Thirty years war - we discussed that. France came there quite late and I have to admit it subsidized Sweden (which didn´t helped us, Swedes only looted half of Prague, but ok). Well, France didn´t loose, but Austria technically gained control over the whole HRE. The peace mainly meant status quo. Some countries lost (Bohemia), some gained (Sweden, Austria).
War against the Nehterlands - some gains, ok. But not too much.
War of the Spanish Succession - Prince of France became the king of Spain, but he could never united it. Also, France lost some territory to Austria. So draw in the best.
French revolution - well, the enemies were French so this is as much win as it is lost, it depends who do you favour.
Napoleonic wars - temporarily big gains, but as Napoleon became too greedy, everybody united against him. His ambitions led him to Russia, where he lost pretty much all his soldiers (btw there are new facts about this - maybe it wasn´t winter, but bugs with diseases which killed most of his soldiers).
End of timeframe. After it, it got only worse. During the timeframe, France was quite strong on the paper, but usually it couldn´t achieve it´s ambitions (quite often it gained something but not as much as it can). I agree it´s failures are often made bigger than they were, but I wouldn´t glorify it either.
In the Europa Universalis period, it took Prussia just a Frederick the Great and a handful of soldiers to fight all of the Great Powers to a standstill.
Now, what is your point again? This game is not about real life history, and it should have a mechanic to not let France win over all of Europe in the 15th century. Even for the reason it would have not been able to do so.
Prussia came within a whisker of being the westernmost province of Russia.
England's performance in the Hundred Years War is basically a case study in why "military commander" should not be a hereditary office. Crécy and Agincourt both have the same basic narrative: hot-blooded French commander launches frontal assault on a well-led English force with superior ranged capabilities in a prepared defensive position in bad weather.
The Maid of Orleans served to restore French morale, but if Charles VII had been as insane and incompetent as his father it would hardly have helped at all.
