The Audacity of Hope - An Iroquois IN AAR

[Azugal]

The land tech difference, plus the fact that PrawnStar can't reliably use his forts to sap Burgundian morale, lest he have to get his own provinces back at the peace table.

Cavalry heavy forces in late game do one of two things to mixed forces:
* Get good die rolls and chew right through them
* Get bad die rolls and get slaughtered.

There really isn't much of a middle ground. Even by the late 1500s you'll notice a cavalry army occasionally get its head handed back to it by infantry. The reason here is that while cavalry does 3x the shock damage and has better shock ratings to boot, they die in the fire phase (where cavalry basically does nothing). Cavalry has to get a good die roll in the first round, or barring that, pray the infantry gets a crap roll in the fire phase, or by the second round the cavalry is on the short end of the stick.

Because EU3 essentially ensures that regiments don't combine in mid battle, a bad first round means that in the second round, your regiments are running with giant holes in them, and do progressively less damage every round.

I figured it was probably something like that, just wanted to know what the details were. Just a misunderstanding about how Offense and defense worked led me to believe that offensively he'd have a better chance. o

As it is, I am still learning heaps about the game, so where I have a chance to ask questions or try and figure something out, I do. Funny thing is I am not usually one to look at files and see the differences between units, cos I am not a min/maxer and usually don't analyse much at all (to my own detriment a lot of the time, lol). I just happened to be bored this morning and was curious.

Thanks for the answers though.

No. Offense is for inflicting and defense is for reducing casualties. It doesn't matter if you are attacking or defending. So in the shock phase he is always at -3 for his own casualties (which means they will be high) and 0 or -1 for his enemies casualties (which means they will be fairly low).
In addition cavalry at this point in time inflicts roughly three times as many casualties as infantry for every point of difference. (That's because of the different shock modifiers which you can find in the ledger.)
If my explanation was too incoherent and confusing (which it probably was o) you can look in the military FAQ.

No, that makes sense. Although I am not entirely sure if I prefer the method used, or what I had guessed (for some bizarre reason - I wonder why) it was.

 

[naggy]

Funny thing is I am not usually one to look at files and see the differences between units, cos I am not a min/maxer and usually don't analyse much at all (to my own detriment a lot of the time, lol).

I'm a software tester by day, so I love looking at the files to analyze the stuff.

 

[Brandenburg III]

Sweden annexed Portugal on the 22nd of July 1774

A funny line no matter how you’d write it.

Have you thought of trying to break Burgundy apart rather than taking their territory? Since you don’t care about bb at this point anyway, your wars may become easier as long as those breakaway countries aren’t HRE provinces.

Notice just how many manufactories there are in this screenshot!

That’s one of the first things I noticed about IN. The map is covered with these buildings across the world by the end of the game. I wonder how that could be fixed because even if the player and AI aren’t allowed to build them so soon, then both would accumulate massive amounts of cash for huge armies. But the littering manufactories may just be a "very hard" thing.

12/04/1775 The Golden Horde warns us, that really does complicate things…

Something tells me I’m going to like the next update.

 

[unmerged(111870)]

Thanks for all the explanations on how Off vs def works!

Gondor comes!

 

[Enewald]

And the whole Middle Earth shall be torn into pieces by the flames of war.

 

[aldriq]

That was an undignified end for Portugal, after all the fun they provided you at the beginning

Presumably you'll be dealing with Aragon and the rest or the western front swiftly before facing the easterlings...

 

[PrawnStar]

FEEDBACK​

Duke of Wellington - I've not tried any conversions in Europe yet - I don't generate many missionaries, I may try Rome if I ever get there

naggy - Good point about the OE; no mercy for colour theives!

ColossusCrusher - Most images are with Photobucket and the 25Gb monthly download cap on the free account has been hit again - resets 22nd of the month. The most recent updates are on Imageshack.

demokratickid - It takes all sorts of folk so if that makes you happy:wacko:

NiJabbieJabba - Cheers, it was born in frustration, for the last few years every time I line up a diplomatic strategy to start a war against an alliance that won't win something happens like that GH warning.

Azugal, seboden & naggy - Thanks guys, great discussion and explaination of the various factors at play. The tech gap isn't too bad I'm at 49 and Burgundy at 54. naggy is spot on about the importance of first contact for those cav heavy armies. If the numbers favour the cavalry then my infantry heavy armies bleed, otherwise the Burgundian cavalry get chewed in the fire phase and break off. Battles against Burgundian infantry or small cavalry forces go as generally expected. It's only Burgundy's Latin Cuirassiers so far, no one else has cavalry with the striking power needed. The upgrade from Latin Hussars/Dragoons is considerable.

ForsakenBlack - Hobbits! Not sure about that, I definitely feel I might have an inner orc

Brandenburg III - Breaking Burgundy would work but looks tricky to organise. My constraints on action are time left, WE and number of diplomats.

Agreed about the manus the map is absolutely littered with them and not just in Europe. There's no sensible way that takking seven provinces off Haasa should yield six manufactories.

Kami - Yip, the Off/Def discussion is good stuff, now if only I could remember how to do all that properly when I'm actually playing

Enewald - Maybe not Middle Earth but probably the Middle East...

aldriq - Portugal was funny wasn't it

The whole losing the province when you lose a siege means I can't really have any quiet fronts so I have to pick my wars carefully. Latin tech nations are a particular issue since they probably can bring down my forts fairly quickly.


That LotR reference got you lot all fired up didn't it! Personally I always read the books as a lament for the innocence lost by the average Englishman in the Great War - which is why at the end you realise it's Sam who is the hero.

 

[PrawnStar]

Chapter Fifty​

War exhaustion has dropped to 4.01 and manpower reserves climbed to 131k with my armies back at full strength. Time’s short so I get busy. The coming wars need to be carefully managed to keep WE under control. In practical terms that means avoiding attrition. Against weaker opponents I’ll let them come to me so I can fight in my provinces. When attacking try and arrive on the first of the month, immediately after the attrition penalty is applied, as that gives you long enough to fight and get out before the end of the month.

01/08/1775 Iroquois declares war on Songhai. Hainault and the Golden Horde join in.

02/09/177s Hainault is annexed – weirdness here, no fort at all and the only building a temple! I blame Burgundy I don’t know why I’m just rounding up the usual suspects*

A first encounter with the Horde sends 8000 of their horsemen to a rapid death under Iroquois muskets – at Land 33 and using Cossacks the Horde isn’t terribly competitive.

Peace with Songhai - 07/09/1775

This is a peace deal offered by Songhai, which I gratefully accepted. It’s the land I want, reducing them to OPM status while saving me a diplomat. Saving diplomats is going to come in handy…

With the existing war down to a single long term opponent I DOW Aragon 10/09/1775, bringing in their Guarantor Castile.

Peace with Aragon – November 1775

Castile is already being quite badly knocked about while the Horde is racking up heavy casualties without doing any real damage.

War with Brittany – 07/12/1775. The truce has ended and they are guaranteed by France so it’s a good opportunity to use my anti-Burgundy forces.

The effects of repeated losing wars is quite clear, these enemies aren’t real opposition and these wars are about tidying things up while I prepare for another war with Burgundy and further hostilities in the Middle East.

21/01/1776

One province Bremen as HRE, as mistakes go that’s up there with a land war in Asia and reality TV.

Battle of Adana – Feb 1776

I was outnumbered roughly three to one here and won very handily. That is roughly half the entire GH army and 3% of mine.

The war with France is going well although resistance is fierce…

France – March 1776

Land 49 – 1st April 1776 and I get the chance for new units.

I chose Westernised Central American Infantry – it doesn’t make much difference as they normally just fight rebels.

12th April 1776 – Brittany accepts annexation.

Horde armies continue to arrive in those provinces north of Syria; they’re paying a heavy price.

Peace with France – 01/05/1776

Only two provinces, but both valuable and for France the end draws nearer.

19/09/1776 – War with Mainz

Despite rising WE (5.40 and climbing, I have an attrition leak I haven’t tracked down yet) it’s time to hit Burgundy again.

What?

19/11/1776 Suriname converts

25/12/1776 Mainz pays 1500 ducats for peace. It’s still a little too early to be annexing isolated provinces in Germany. Two province Wurzburg as war leader has completely thrown me as how to get the best out of this war.

The European Front – January 1777

I’m still at war with Burgundy and friends, Castile (80% WS just waiting for some more sieges) and the Horde who will hand over those two provinces when I’m ready. I’ve spent the last six months happily slaughtering Horde units to crank up the WE pressure.

Ceterum censeo Castile esse delendam​

* Casablanca reference this time

 

[unmerged(81979)]

Nice job. I agree with your trenchant analysis of the election of a guy from BREMEN HRE Emperor...

 

[Wayloss]

Lets see if you can Off france and end the reign of Charles the 13th... may 13 Prove to be the unlucky number..even for france.

 

[TheArchMede]

The Peace with Songhai image is pointing to the wrong place.

At the moment its a repeat of the 43rd War of Iroquois Aggression. (Can you get those wars into three figures?)

 

[Enewald]

Hmm, it doesn't make sense that while you dominate the European battlefields, they have 'superior' infantry and still better techs. :wacko:

It's like everyone agrees that Indian infantry sucks, yet they win because they use odd tactics, like 'guerilla-commando' stuff, which would have been very dishonourable at the 18th century.

 

[flimo]

"Despite rising WE (5.40 and climbing, I have an attrition leak I haven’t tracked down yet) it’s time to hit Burgundy again."

i wish there was an attrition popup warning at the top of the screen, just like u have for revolt risk, open advisor slots etc
once u get past 400 provinces and 500000 soldiers, it starts to get hard to keep track of that 1 army, that is standing in severe vinter somewhere in outer mongolia
would it be posible to mod something like that into the game?

 

[Sirveri]

You have FIVE spies!!!!! Why are you not using them fully to really stomp and hurt your opposition!

If spy ops are difficult, infiltrate spy ring. Then start placing nationalist rebels everywhere. If they actually manage to siege a province you don't have to break them up in a peace treaty and can just wait until they collapse. Then you sweep in and clean up. It's how I took Poland from a 15 province major to a 5 province minor in a single war as a 4 province Mecklenburg.

 

[comagoosie]

nearly 600k of infantry. I think the world should bow right now and lots of people will survive.

 

[kazper]

Hmm, it doesn't make sense that while you dominate the European battlefields, they have 'superior' infantry and still better techs. :wacko:

It's like everyone agrees that Indian infantry sucks, yet they win because they use odd tactics, like 'guerilla-commando' stuff, which would have been very dishonourable at the 18th century.

He's not using Indian Infantry units in Europe. He's using Latin units produced in their cores. Thus there is no (or less at least) gap in unit strength, and his tech level isn't a problem since he westernized.

Oh and can I just say this AAR is a magnificent effort Highly entertaining in the middle part and very educational and interesting at this point. Knowing that you can't get WC makes it even more interesting to see what you will manage to grab

 

[Brandenburg III]

One province Bremen as HRE, as mistakes go that’s up there with a land war in Asia and reality TV.

I’m wondering though, do you have any aims right now? Or is your sole objective to take as much land as possible before the timer goes off?

 

[aldriq]

The Aragonese met a more honourable destiny than the Portuguese

The GH is a bit disappointing... maybe you can still make it to the Russian steppes!

 

[Pirate Z]

He's not using Indian Infantry units in Europe. He's using Latin units produced in their cores. Thus there is no (or less at least) gap in unit strength, and his tech level isn't a problem since he westernized.

There is a gap in unit strength, because westernization in 3.1 doesn't give you Latin tech units, but far crappier units, especially if you're not Eastern tech. This means he has to compensate through what is more or less a loophole or a bit of an exploit by producing Latin tech troops in Latin tech cores, such as the Peruvian provinces he conquered from Aragon. It also means he has to go through the tiresome process of manually replacing units when the Latin tech group advances to a new level and switches units. It's a pet peeve quite a few people have with IN.

 

[Azugal]

I think the point was that there isn't a gap in the unit strength of units he's using to fight in Europe, and especially against Burgundy.

I'd also imagine that there may be a small tech gap, in the vicinity of 5 or so, seeing as Burgundy is likely at the forefront of technology. Which, depending on the exact techs, could make a somewhat noticeable difference.

For instance if Burgundy has reached land tech 59 and he's on 54:
Infantry Fire modifier 2 v 1.5
Infantry Shock modifier 1.5 v 1.75

So it's possible that tech is still costing him somewhat in battles.