The Anthology of EUII AARs

[Director]

Just my two cents: Peter Ebbesen can take a no-province minor populated by one elderly peasant bedridden with scurvy and conquer the world faster than anyone else can do it with a superpower. The man understands the game mechanics on a level most of us can study years for and not match. I would never - ever - think that Peter needed any assist to beat the AI. Or me, for that matter. If the Paradox universe has a Grand Master, Peter Ebbesen is it.

The fact is, the man doesn't enjoy writing that much, which is a shame because he is more than somewhat gifted there too. That means you get an Ebbesen (he has a category all his own ) when a game comes out and you don't typically hear much from him later in its development. Not that I would presume to speak for him, of course - just my observations.

For my part, I did indulge in at least one gamey tactic and one deliberate cheat in 'Here There Be Dragons'. I also spelled out to the readership what I was doing, so I call no foul on that.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm not going to vote, because I haven't read all of them. There's no doubt in my mind which was the most influential AAR - Ariels England - but that was EU1. Personally I think Paradox owe him a pile of money for the level of enthusiasm he generated in the forum, early on.

I will say that some of the AAR's you mention were really responsible for the gradual change in patches and versions from fun to unplayably hard. When a few experts are supposedly explaining how easy it is to make mincemeat of the game, the game designers, reacting excessively to what they can see, change the various parameters - anything to try and stop world conquest. In fact - heresy- I am definitely not convinced that all the strategies and tactics in some of the AAR's you list were ever replicable by a real player, even in the patches that applied when they were written - regrettably people will do a lot to become famous. And certainly those approaches could not conceivably work for the later patches (1.08 and 1.09).

I'm afraid this carried into EU3. I was a big EU2 player, so I bought the game when it came out, but in my first game as England I was ahead on naval tech, with a leader, and my English fleet of 41 ships was defeated by 14 French ones in 1469 (time after time, reloading and starting again from the beginning), I knew that the disease had spread. That was the only game I ever played of EU3 - what a waste of £30.

That may be true in some instances, but certainly you seem to forget that the most enjoyable AARs here are written, not to boast of a world conquest, but to write a good story.

As to tactics, if people like Prufrock and PE says they have done this or that and gotten such results, then trust me, then that IS the case. Both have been extensively playing and gametesting Paradox games for a long time, and their input been used in the development phases. But both players are so deep into these games that it would to a great extend not be possible for even exp. gamers to duplicate their feats, and as such not everything they find will be fixed.

What does that mean? Well it goes on to make very funny AARs It also means you cannot measure your average gaming exp. up against their AARs, and finally, it is not because of their AARs that games get harder, they simply find so many loopholes that only the generic, gamebreaking ones gets fixed.

Take PE, he is more than a little genius when it comes to math. he can find, almost by default, the complex and perfect tweaked balance of ANY slider in EU2, without even considering opening a modding tool That means he can beat that game, no matter what.

V

 

[TC Pilot]

Of all the AARs mentioned, the only one I really read extensively was Eagles of Avalon, which I am still very sad to see was never completed. But perhaps it may yet be reborn, as it was so often in the past....

 

[coz1]

Well said, V. Couldn't agree more myself.

I might also point those that have not seen it to the new HoI Anthology thread. Built very much like this one, I thought it appropriate to bring the original HoI into this mix for now. We'll look at newer games in good time.

 

[Prufrock451]

Valdemar, as much as I appreciate the comparison to Ebbesen, let's face it: I'm not in that man's category. And my HOI skilz aren't anything close to, say, Blue Emu's.

This, however, I can say to Chas: Not once did I use F12 to accomplish anything in my AARs. I have actually ended long-running AARs, in fact, when my game strategies were invalidated by new patches, rather than continue with a story that would seem ludicrous to a new reader.

Anything I've done in my AARs (including, of course, collapse and bankruptcy following a civil war and several rounds of BB wars in The Mother of Cities) can be replicated. Have I cherry-picked successful and lucky games to write about? Of course. I have played a LOT of unsuccessful games. I just haven't written about them.

 

[Chas]

Im guessing World Conquest for Dummies is one of those your talking about, what are the others, got me interested.

I'm a bit reluctant to name them - not because I'm just spamming or lying, but it's a very hard thing to prove. You need the exact same version as the AAR was based on, and you have to do a lot of simulating the same play, then editing save files, trying to guess what random events may have happened etc. If you look at the links in my sig, you will see I am not afraid to do a lot of work to create a scenario, and I did try to simulate some - enough to satisfy myself that it was impossible to get the situation they claimed.

Basically, you have to follow the money, as the cliche goes. Some of these AAR's are simply unaffordable. And let's face it, it's quite easy to edit money, and inflation.

Certainly World Conquest for Dummies was the start of a downward spiral in EU. Johan got all paranoid about it - I guess his testers simply didn't have the time to see if it was a simple as was being made out. The revolt rate was put through the roof, and progressively more and more parameters were worsened. I do so wish they had been a bit more cynical about not believing everything they read on the internet.

 

[unmerged(145825)]

Looks like your done quite alot of homework into the subject and working out how the game works.

I get what your saying and there is certainly alot less money to be made in 1.09 than previously. I find I really have to resort to the most low down gamey exploits going... sync looting and AI milking just to get a good kick start.

I cant really comment on how it became so and who may have influenced those changes or not and if they were working within the game mechanics or not and I suppose it really doesnt matter that much, I still quite enjoyed a game of 1.09 a few months ago.

Was interesting reading your thoughts on the matter, EU2 has had a large presence in my gaming time.

 

[Eber]

I completely agree with Valdemar. Though I understand where you are coming from, Chas, I also must say that it should still not demote anyone's AAR feats that have been displayed in the past. I feel as though because of your educated cynicism, you are downplaying some of these great AARs including Prufrock's and Peter Ebessen's. These two players are not only great writers but great and intelligent gamers.

You are right with the fact that nearly 99% of gamers could never do what they or some others have done. Yet, any game can be broken, it just takes time, the ability to learn and the intelligence to apply what you have learned to improve gameplay strategy.

I have never tried a WC and honestly I doubt I ever will. It's too stressful, in my opinion, and having my degree in history also makes me want to try to be at least a little historical in game-play terms.

So I will not refute your findings and again I do believe you are right in your findings. Just try not to undermine some of these great players due to your opinions especially in a thread that is here to congratulate and honor these writers, not question their gameplay morality.

 

[Valdemar]

I agree with Eber

But I'd also like to repeat. PE is a very bad role model when deciding what is "realistic" or feasible, in game or in AARs. His ability in EU2 is just paranormal, and I can say for certain that him in a game of EU2 SP or MP a very special exp.

I had the pleasure of MP'ing with him, Johan, BiB, MrT and a few other mods when beta testing some of the later MP patches.. and trust me, PE's feats are very much possible without cheating, and Johan is very much aware that PE is unique. He did NOT model, to my knowledge, his patches around PE's abilities or findings.

However, PE's findings DOES give him insight to some, deliberate or consequential interrelations between various game functions and as such they give him input on what to look at in patches. You must remember that PE is hardly the only beta tester of EU2, scores of others did the same thing, and it is the combined effort Johan evaluates.

Also, I'm talking about EU2 here, by the end of CK I was no longer mod nor betatester, so I do not know what is being done for Hoi2 EU3 and so on. I get the feeling the whole system is very different from the entrepeneurial spirit of EU2, Vicki, CK, HoI1+2.

Problem for EU2 is that it is Johan, PE, BiB and lot of other ppl's love. That means it get or got a very special attention that probably only makes sense to very devout gamers. I for one cannot play 1,09 on harder settings and still have fun I simply do not play enough, so over the (in game time) very long and dedicated after release support (over 9 offical patches over a span of years IIRC) the game has slowly become specialised and a game for connessours.

V

 

[Amric]

How do u lower inflation by cheating? I didn't know u could do that! As an example of gaining lots of money. In Byzantine's Khan I was able to gather lots of money as I was putting bailiff's in every province I owned. By being stingy with the amount of army and navy I had I was able to quickly gain quite a bit of money. In the thousands of ducats in just a few short years. I continued to make improvements in the provinces which gathered even more money. By being careful with my traders I gathered even more money. I tried to stay out of the idea of throwing traders at CoT's willy nilly but placed them where they could do the most good, for me. Obviously as things heated up I need more and more army. But my navy was rather paltry. I still made money as I kept the army and navy at fifty percent unless at war. And despite things written in the story, I try to do my wars as quickly as possible. I am more than willing to let minor allies of my enemy pay me off for peace. Gaining gold is easy in EU2 if u work all the angles and there is no need to cheat to gain money.

 

[coz1]

Bump to gain a few more eyes before we move the thread off to EU2. Or should we leave it here for a month or two more? Up to you guys. It's an open ended poll so votes can go on indefinitely and this area will gain more eyes than EU2.

 

[Qorten]

I'd leave it here for now, where newer Paradoxians will see it too.

 

[TheArchMede]

Its a shame WCfD is the selected Ebbesen. I think its the worst of his EU2 AARs. Most, if not all, of the others I reread from time to time, but not that one.

Desert Tides is my favorite off that list, though WAAR of the Worlds would be top if it was included. I liked the MES a lot. If only it hadn't been so buggy. I always ran up against terminal crashes just as the game was getting somewhere.

As for the game getting harder as it went on getting patched, I don't agree at all. WC at the time of WCfD was extremely tedious. Later patches actually took the tedium away by turning rebel spawns into an income hit and made gameplay changes that made it easier too. Choose the right OPM and you could do a WC in 120 years or so. Even a pagan OPM could conquer the world.

EU3 is where I think it all went wrong.