The alt-history scenarios in this game are fantasy scenarios, where is the actual alt-history

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Zauberelefant

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You compare totally different situations. I can object to you that armed resistance in France, Low countries, Denmark, Norway, was almost non existent for a long time. Hell, even resistance in the occupied areas in the Soviet Union was non existent in 1941 and only started later.

I can give you examples of regular armies who defeated guerrilla insurrections, on top of my head :

French army in Algeria (yes, look it up)
Russia in Chechnya
Spanish army in Spain
Britain in India, Africa
etc etc...

you talk about Iraq, but the US army had very different rules of engagements than during WW2. I can guarantee that a handful of german divisions from WW2 would have pacified the country VERY quickly.
Algeria became independent as a result of that successful war. And the Germans had dozens of divisions not pacifying anything but creating more partisans.
 
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valentin4

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Algeria became independent as a result of that successful war. And the Germans had dozens of divisions not pacifying anything but creating more partisans.

you don't read what I said. I said "look it up" because I knew you would answer that.

Guess what : there was long insurrection in Algeria, and the French army actually defeated it. The French leaved Algeria for political reason, because De Gaulle decided it.

Furthermore, the German army controlled vast regions with very litte problems for years, but you apparently don't want to accept the evidence. Fair enough.
 

Zauberelefant

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you don't read what I said. I said "look it up" because I knew you would answer that.

Guess what : there was long insurrection in Algeria, and the French army actually defeated it. The French leaved Algeria for political reason, because De Gaulle decided it.

Furthermore, the German army controlled vast regions with very litte problems for years, but you apparently don't want to accept the evidence. Fair enough.
8f you say so. If an insurrection ends with a peace deal and independence, that's a win in my book, regardless of military successes by the other party. The war goal was to keep Algeria, that objective was not met. That's the evidence.

And the Germans did control what exactly without trouble? Pripyet marches? The woods in northwestern russia? Anti partisan actions became ever more tolling on the Wehrmacht from 1942 onwards and partisans were a major contributor to the success of both operations Overlord and Bagration.
If you pick the times the Panzers were rolling 160km a day, that's cherry picking, because resistance needs time to form.

The Germans had at any time from 1943 onwards dozens of rear line units on anti partisan duty. That is not "without problems"
 

Simon Marques

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You fail to recognize that by the time the Dunkerque pocket was encircled France was still standing and fighting so containing the pocket and concentrating on defeating France was the much more logical move. Especially that the Germans had no reliable intelligence on the forces stationed in France so they couldn't even rule out an Allied counter-encirclement which would have been disastrous for the Germans.

Friend, with all due respect, if you have the enemy surrounded and totally vulnerable you only have two logical options:

1 - You try to capture him.
2 - You destroy him completely until there are no more left.

As you well quoted @Vlad123 Hitler was thinking that he could negotiate peace with England if he made this gesture of kindness. He could not be more wrong! Hitler, not knowing his enemies, completely underestimated them and who paid the price was Germany.
 

Vlad123

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Friend, with all due respect, if you have the enemy surrounded and totally vulnerable you only have two logical options:

1 - You try to capture him.
2 - You destroy him completely until there are no more left.

As you well quoted @Vlad123 Hitler was thinking that he could negotiate peace with England if he made this gesture of kindness. He could not be more wrong! Hitler, not knowing his enemies, completely underestimated them and who paid the price was Germany.
In my book Dunkirk "miracle" not appear and UK are ready to be conquered because like crete Germany send tons of paratrooper in uk. Hystorically in UK after dunkirk they take the weapons from museum and found every metal for produce new guns because they NOT HAVE ANY GUNS! But guns are easy to replace veteran soldiers no. Imagine the slaugther Veteran and elite German paratrooper vs newbie drafted uk soldier
 
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HoI IV is NOT a true sandbox. Every important country needs the focus tree to guide them. Replayability and Balance make multiple viable paths per country necessary.

For some countries, this means some of the paths have to be very far-fetched.

But the lack of historical and plausible alternate paths for some nations is more the result of the country-based DLC policy and lack of resources (1 DLC per year).

Besides, the monarchist paths for all countries were added because the game is apparently very popular among IRL monarchists (Vic3 would be better suited for them, but alas, PDX won’t make it.).
 
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kettyo

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I can object to you that armed resistance in France, Low countries, Denmark, Norway, was almost non existent for a long time. Hell, even resistance in the occupied areas in the Soviet Union was non existent in 1941 and only started later.

This is a huge misunderstanding of the matter.

Denmark, the Low Countries, and Norway are close to Germany culturally and so occupation was light and the citizens - which didn't belong to groups designated as enemies - were treated with respect. This largely true for France as well yet resistance there wasn't non-existent for sure, partly because the enemy groups there were quite numerous.

Partisan warfare in the Soviet Union was very dense from the beginning and remained so indefinitely. Just like in Yugoslavia.

It's not so much emphasised by mainstream history but even German resistance against Allied occupation was quite stiff and while initially it was carried out largely by former national socialist elements it was feared that it will become more and more widespread as famines were commonplace and rebuilding went very slow, unemployment was stellar as well. There is a reason why the Marshall Plan was eventually devised and it was not the love for Germany.
 
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kettyo

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Friend, with all due respect, if you have the enemy surrounded and totally vulnerable you only have two logical options:

1 - You try to capture him.
2 - You destroy him completely until there are no more left.

As you well quoted @Vlad123 Hitler was thinking that he could negotiate peace with England if he made this gesture of kindness. He could not be more wrong! Hitler, not knowing his enemies, completely underestimated them and who paid the price was Germany.

I'm not sure if you actually read what i wrote.

France was still a threat at that time and the volume of the threat could not be correctly assessed so it was a logical move to concentrate on a threat as a contained pocket wasn't a threat anymore.

All the other explanations are just interesting storytelling but not the real reason i think.
 
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kettyo

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In my book Dunkirk "miracle" not appear and UK are ready to be conquered because like crete Germany send tons of paratrooper in uk. Hystorically in UK after dunkirk they take the weapons from museum and found every metal for produce new guns because they NOT HAVE ANY GUNS! But guns are easy to replace veteran soldiers no. Imagine the slaugther Veteran and elite German paratrooper vs newbie drafted uk soldier

You know that it's all pure pro-Axis fantasy, right? :)

Don't get me wrong, paratroopers are cool and all but you don't conquer a many millions island with paratroopers. How you're going to supply them after all? As the naval supremacy of the British were uncontested.
 
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valentin4

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This is a huge misunderstanding of the matter.


Partisan warfare in the Soviet Union was very dense from the beginning and remained so indefinitely. Just like in Yugoslavia.

It's not so much emphasised by mainstream history but even German resistance against Allied occupation was quite stiff and while initially it was carried out largely by former national socialist elements it was feared that it will become more and more widespread as famines were commonplace and rebuilding went very slow, unemployment was stellar as well. There is a reason why the Marshall Plan was eventually devised and it was not the love for Germany.

no. Partisan warfare in the Soviet Union was very weak in 1941 (source : Jean Lopez, Operation Barbarossa). In particular, partisans network received help from spies, parachuting etc... from the frontline. Things that would be non existent if the Red Army is in disarray

German resistance in 1945 (the legendary Werwolf etc...) was amost non existent et very quickly disappeared.
 
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Zauberelefant

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but you have no problem to draw comparisons with conflits completely different, in Iraq and Vietnam ? lol

You're not getting the argument. You compare western Europe apples with eastern Europe oranges here. You think thaz racial policy in "aryan" nations and its consequences somehow qualify as a predictor for contrary policies in the east.

That is wrong. Vietnam and Iraq, with their incredible toll on civilian lives, are similar examples of how not to carry out occupation. Afghanistan would be another.

So, I argue once more: given Nazi outlook on Eastern European people, I say that they were looking at a generation's worth of partisan warfare even after defeating the USSR.
 
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Vlad123

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You know that it's all pure pro-Axis fantasy, right? :)

Don't get me wrong, paratroopers are cool and all but you don't conquer a many millions island with paratroopers. How you're going to supply them after all? As the naval supremacy of the British were uncontested.
Yes, but the psychological effect + 0 organized defenses in the UK is very strong. To make you understand, it's like for the French to have the Maginot bypassed. The Germans thus bypassed the navy.
 
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Zauberelefant

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Your take is completely absurd. Yes, Hitler and nazism had pretty strong racial views. But he was completely OK with letting these views not interfere with military struggle. He allied with Japan, and declared war to be on their side when the japaneses didn't think he would. He tried to befriend muslims in the Middle East (Al Husseini etc...). Many non white people served in the Wermacht.
"Pretty strong racial views" is a weird case of understatement.
Are you making the case that the Nazis weren't really racists? I have to ask because your statement is really puzzling.
Hitler declaring war on the US was just acknowledging facts. The US were as much an enemy nation as the British, but he saw it as a way to actually be able to fight them.
Also, his worldview had the American capitalists lumped together with Bolsheviks because...well, Jewry.

The Al Husseini thing is overstated, there was minimal contact between the two.
"Many non white people served in the Wehrmacht" - citation needed. Apart from legion freies Arabien, a few token prisoner Indians in the SS, and some Transcaucasian volounteers in less than regimental strength, everyone else in the Nazi forces was European. In fact, their policies prohibited some whites from joining, like russian volounteers.

I am sorry, but you do not know a lot about the topic.
 
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valentin4

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"Pretty strong racial views" is a weird case of understatement.
Are you making the case that the Nazis weren't really racists? I have to ask because your statement is really puzzling.
Hitler declaring war on the US was just acknowledging facts. The US were as much an enemy nation as the British, but he saw it as a way to actually be able to fight them.
Also, his worldview had the American capitalists lumped together with Bolsheviks because...well, Jewry.

The Al Husseini thing is overstated, there was minimal contact between the two.
"Many non white people served in the Wehrmacht" - citation needed. Apart from legion freies Arabien, a few token prisoner Indians in the SS, and some Transcaucasian volounteers in less than regimental strength, everyone else in the Nazi forces was European. In fact, their policies prohibited some whites from joining, like russian volounteers.

I am sorry, but you do not know a lot about the topic.

I hope you're sorry, because for now you've shown complete misunderstanding of the subject matter .
 
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kettyo

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Yes, but the psychological effect + 0 organized defenses in the UK is very strong. To make you understand, it's like for the French to have the Maginot bypassed. The Germans thus bypassed the navy.

Do you really think that there were zero professional troops in the UK? That is amusing.

Not to talk about the hundreds of thousands of home guard militia either.

Yes seeing German paratroopers on the streets might be shocking but even more shocking for the Germans to lose their paratrooper battalions.

You know even Crete wasn't a cakewalk and the UK is a bit different story.
 
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