I have had my education maxed out from the beginning. I reached 100% around 1885 due to an event that boost literacy 20%. And yet, even Italy, who started (technically) 20 years after me, appears to be ahead in techs!! 
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How do you know? If you evaluate this by looking at the trade screen, you only see the techs they have additionally. If Italy concentrates on one special field like Army, you might be far ahead in other fields, but the trading list doesn't tell you how many techs you have above Italys next tech level (i.e., you cannot trade techs the other country doesn't have the prerequisites for, AFAIK.). Also, cultural techs don't show up here at all.Ivan Rogov said:even Italy [snip] appears to be ahead in techs!!
As far as I abserved this, technologically weak nations cannot compete with the fast-researching countries - the later the game, the less tech trading partners you'll find.
Ivan Rogov said:I have had my education maxed out from the beginning. I reached 100% around 1885 due to an event that boost literacy 20%. And yet, even Italy, who started (technically) 20 years after me, appears to be ahead in techs!!
This isn't exactly the same but just as a test I recently feed a bunch of techs to Ethiopia (five techs at a time) and found they always seemed to have enough research points to take more. I don't think the AI's research points ever go negative the way a player's does.
Oerdin said:
IIRC If you give techs to another country, they don't have to pay reasearch points.
Only if they ask for techs do they have to pay research points.
Wow, I didn't know that. So you can give all your techs to a backwards country, and then...? What? They turn into a superpower?
I doubt if you give Tahiti all your techs in 1910 that they turn into a GreatpowerVladislav said:Wow, I didn't know that. So you can give all your techs to a backwards country, and then...? What? They turn into a superpower?
Yes, sometimes the AI can offer you some techs for a claim building, you will get the techs for no research point costs.
But yes, I'm pretty sure the AI cheats with research points, though I don't have a problem with that at all. You can easily tell for example when you go for the techs with education modifier +10% as soon as possible, convert POPs to clerks/clergy for most research point gain efficiency, and then you see that the AI that have not done this still keep the same pace as you.
But yes, I'm pretty sure the AI cheats with research points, though I don't have a problem with that at all. You can easily tell for example when you go for the techs with education modifier +10% as soon as possible, convert POPs to clerks/clergy for most research point gain efficiency, and then you see that the AI that have not done this still keep the same pace as you.
Vladislav said:Wow, I didn't know that. So you can give all your techs to a backwards country, and then...? What? They turn into a superpower?
Yes... especially some country like Russia which is huge but usually tech slow, feed them techs and they turn into a real beast. Even some countries like Ottomans or China sometimes do also, though it's not as sure a thing as I've seen Russia react to lots of free techs. For instance if you are playing France or something you can sometimes sell your claims for techs early and plus devote your nation to research and have alot of techs to give Russia before Crimea war. That way UK and Russia drain each other fighting and Russia also restrains Germany... you then have 30 years before Africa is mostly claimed to recover colonial area with all the normal major powers weakened.
Also USA or Germany can do this to keep other powers weakened as Germany can free some border nations and ensure Russia expands towards India so UK and Russia fight each other alot while you take chunks of Europe. USA and UK really are in the best positions as they both usually get lots of research points and can keep a lead in techs vs AI in a couple fields. As Ottomans you can feed France, Japan and China techs as they will usually act to restrain your traditional enemies. Just hard to get that tech lead as Ottomans to get enough techs to feed counties like France though usually Japan and China will both work to drain Russia if they don't work on each other.
How do you mean? The country that creates Italy gets to keep their techs.Ivan Rogov said:And yet, even Italy, who started (technically) 20 years after me, appears to be ahead in techs!!
I have noticed couple of things. I have suspicion that AI countries trade techs between each other. If I satellite a Great Power, then that country start to lag in tech, maybe it is coincidence or maybe it can not trade techs with others anymore. If they would use only their own research without trading they wouldn’t be able to research all techs (remember you can research roughly only 1 tech per year own your own, regardless of research speed).
Also, if you slice lots of prestige (better make it negative) from a GP then its research and advance will slow down considerably because some inventions won’t fire for veeeery long time.
Also, if you slice lots of prestige (better make it negative) from a GP then its research and advance will slow down considerably because some inventions won’t fire for veeeery long time.
This is the case here. If you turn on notifications you will see that ai trades techs like mad. If you are offered a deal you get the tech RPs free. This of course happens for ai countries only as I have yet to see being offered a tech deal under 1.04. Whether this is cheating depends on the point of view. It is according to rules though. Is it fair? Answer yourself.
Letting the AI all work together but not with the humans is, of course, cheating but then again the AI sucks so bad it has to cheat. That is the universal problem with AIs.
With bigger countries you can pretty much hit the tech caps pretty swiftly anyway, so this really isn't much an issue for the human if you stay away from minor power countries. Also, I suspect the AI can trade culture techs, but not sure. Just a creeping suspicion...
Also, I suspect the AI can trade culture techs, but not sure. Just a creeping suspicion...
I think ais obey rules in that matter, i.e. no outright cheating.Deutschu~ said:With bigger countries you can pretty much hit the tech caps pretty swiftly anyway, so this really isn't much an issue for the human if you stay away from minor power countries.
Ummm if you give a tech to someone and do not get a tech in return you lose 10 prestige.
Walen said:
They obviously calculate prices for tech trading differently though. AI would like to charge human tens or hundreds of thousands for a tech yet AI trade a couple techs a year quite often. If it was only the major power AI's doing that a couple times a decade maybe, but how to afford those prices along with their military etc? Only UK, Germany or China could afford that in the early and mid game.
I am just saying they obey the same rules that apply human players. If there is a trade tech-for-tech country offering loses 10RPs but gets a new tech while country offered gets a free tech. They change sides next trade deal. This way ais get techs for half the price without breaking the rules. You still wonder why they are ahead tech race?
Walen said:
The rules aren't the same if the costs aren't the same... never been able to get an AI to trade 1 tech for 1 even when the tech I offer is years ahead of the one they currently have. So I would lose 10 prestige and the AI would gain a great tech for free.
If you observe AI nations and the way their techs grow it's by leaps and bounds. So there is an obvious mass trading going on as soon as a new group of techs are researched but you don't see their prestige or funds decrease which would indicate they are following the same rules as human player unless a bunch of the smaller countries are offering the majors all their techs for very cheap prices.
The rules *are* the same. If two human players coped ai behaviour they would get every second tech for free as well, thus effectively getting a tech for half the cost. The problem is that the ais since 1.04 are unlikely to initiate trade with human players on equal terms - more of an ai file tweak than an engine chage. You can still easily offer one for one deals as long as your relations are high and BB remains low.Ichon said:
If you payed close attention to RPs ai countries have you'd notice negative RPs is the only thing that stops them from even more trading - this obviously shows the same rules apply for both human and ai controlled countries.