The AI is not making defensive battleplans

[Gort11]

Watching the Hungary WWW streams, a lot of people have commented on how easily smaller countries like Austria, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were defeated and with so few casualties.

It looks like a large part of the problem is that the AI doesn't make battleplans against countries that are going to attack it. This means when Daniel invaded Austria, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, his armies had an extra 50% bonus compared to their enemies. This meant that in the early stages of the war, Daniel's armies were able to massively damage their opponents, which gave him the advantage throughout the rest of the war.

Either the AI needs to do this, or if this isn't possible you shouldn't be able to build planning bonuses while at peace. Otherwise the game is going to be very easy for human players when they declare war on AI countries.

 

[adam_grif]

It depends. There is historical precedent for being completely unprepared for an invasion.

Gameplay wise, if the enemy has good intel on you it should do defensive plans, or if it's "obvious" that you're going to get hit next somehow. But what qualifies being "obvious", idk. It's something that's easy to see with a human mind but probably not for the AI.

 

[Gort11]

The situation we saw in this WWW involved massive military buildup on the border and radio broadcasts by the leader of the aggressive nation denouncing their enemy and justifying the upcoming war, not to mention that they'd already done the same to two other nearby countries. There's no way to be more obvious about their intentions.

The fix I'd put in place is that if a country has a casus belli on an AI player, the AI puts its army on the border (it already does this part) and makes a battleplan against that country (it doesn't do this part).

If there are multiple such countries, split the army accordingly.

 

[ringhloth]

I'm pretty sure that there's no defensive benefit from batleplans, at least there wasn't in earlier builds.

 

[Skjold89]

A simple solution for this is to give the any troops located on a border province an automatic defensiveat least for the AI. Im not a fan of the plans giving combat bonuses anyway, but if thats the way it has to be it also has to be simple enough for the AI to utilise effectivly.

Edit: I think entrenchment is the equilivant of the battleplan bonus for defenses, but in that screenshot the AI is getting a 2 % bonus while Daniels troops are getting 50 %.

 

[LordOfWar16]

Watching the Hungary WWW streams, a lot of people have commented on how easily smaller countries like Austria, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were defeated and with so few casualties.

It looks like a large part of the problem is that the AI doesn't make battleplans against countries that are going to attack it. This means when Daniel invaded Austria, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, his armies had an extra 50% bonus compared to their enemies. This meant that in the early stages of the war, Daniel's armies were able to massively damage their opponents, which gave him the advantage throughout the rest of the war.

Either the AI needs to do this, or if this isn't possible you shouldn't be able to build planning bonuses while at peace. Otherwise the game is going to be very easy for human players when they declare war on AI countries.

You seem to confuse something. The AI does have the defensiveline to the neighboring country and gets the dig-in bonus, which is the counterpart to the planning bonus. "Defensive Plans" dont have a planning bonus, because the dig-in bonus does exactly that.

 

[Gort11]

You don't only defend during a war, unless you want to lose. You need to be able to counterattack as well as attack your enemy where he's weak. If you don't get a planning bonus because you didn't make a battleplan in these cases, you're at a huge disadvantage.

 

[LordOfWar16]

You don't only defend during a war, unless you want to lose. You need to be able to counterattack as well as attack your enemy where he's weak. If you don't get a planning bonus because you didn't make a battleplan in these cases, you're at a huge disadvantage.

why exactly are you even sure that they dont have any battleplans? You cant see battleplans of enemies and germany clearly had 2 battleplans for poland during the latest WWW episode.

 

[Dalnar]

In case of the first two wars, I'm not sure if the Austrian or Czechoslovakian divisions were even assigned to a general. I rewatched the video and every time Daniel showed the actual combat, his enemies had no general. I'm pretty sure the AI could at least assign divisions to generals. On the other hand, if divisions are not assigned to a general, they surely are not part of a battleplan, so OP may be right.

 

[LordOfWar16]

In case of the first two wars, I'm not sure if the Austrian or Czechoslovakian divisions were even assigned to a general. I rewatched the video and every time Daniel showed the actual combat, his enemies had no general. I'm pretty sure the AI could at least assign divisions to generals. On the other hand, if divisions are not assigned to a general, they surely are not part of a battleplan, so OP may be right.

battleplans have nothing to do with generals. You can give armies battleplans without assigning them to a general.

What nobody seems to take into account is that the built they are playing was literaly minutes old. The AI is still being worked on, so hick ups are prone to happen with hot code. France basicly abandoning the maginot line and retreating might be a kinda funny sterotypical joke, but wasnt supposed to happen.

 

[Vidkjaer]

The problem is that there was no dig in bonus. Dig in only happens when at war.
I agree that justifying a war goal should activate dig in (perhaps a lower cap) until at war.

 

[LordOfWar16]

The problem is that there was no dig in bonus. Dig in only happens when at war.
I agree that justifying a war goal should activate dig in (perhaps a lower cap) until at war.

The dig-in bonus will increase if a division doesnt move. It doesnt have to do anything with being at war or not. Stationary divisions will build up a entrenchment bonus.

 

[zyphial]

France basicly abandoning the maginot line and retreating might be a kinda funny sterotypical joke, but wasnt supposed to happen.

What, I thought they added "realism" to French strategy to go along with the Italian army strength we've seen in previous builds.

Looked historical to me!

 

[Dalnar]

Well maybe you do not need generals for battleplans, but surely the fact that AI didn't assing troops to a general gimps their overall performance. There is no reason for a small country to not have all of its divisions under generals.

 

[Vidkjaer]

The dig-in bonus will increase if a division doesnt move. It doesnt have to do anything with being at war or not. Stationary divisions will build up a entrenchment bonus.

And you know this because?
In HOI3 divisions would not dig in when not at war. I dont have any reason to believe this is not the case for HOI4 either because i have not seen it confirmed either in WWW or in a Dev post. Please provide link to information or explain how you know this.

 

[Da9L]

Battleplans itself doesn't give any bonus. Making a offensive line will start giving you a planning bonus, and then attacking (not defending) will grant you the bonus. Entrenchment is something you always get when the unit is standing still.

battleplans have nothing to do with generals. You can give armies battleplans without assigning them to a general.

What nobody seems to take into account is that the built they are playing was literaly minutes old. The AI is still being worked on, so hick ups are prone to happen with hot code. France basicly abandoning the maginot line and retreating might be a kinda funny sterotypical joke, but wasnt supposed to happen.

Yes, yes and yea, France retreating was a bug, already reported and actually something that our AI programmer was already working on.
Update: And after talking with our AI programmer most likely already fixed yesterday evening

 

[LordOfWar16]

And you know this because?
In HOI3 divisions would not dig in when not at war. I dont have any reason to believe this is not the case for HOI4 either because i have not seen it confirmed either in WWW or in a Dev post. Please provide link to information or explain how you know this.

here you go. Daniel isnt at war yet and still his divisions gain the entrenchment bonus. As for devpost, see Da9l's post above.

 

[Vidkjaer]

here you go. Daniel isnt at war yet and still his divisions gain the entrenchment bonus. As for devpost, see Da9l's post above.

Thnx. An improvement from HOI3

 

[Modestus]

Watching the Hungary WWW streams, a lot of people have commented on how easily smaller countries like Austria, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were defeated and with so few casualties.

It looks like a large part of the problem is that the AI doesn't make battleplans against countries that are going to attack it. This means when Daniel invaded Austria, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, his armies had an extra 50% bonus compared to their enemies. This meant that in the early stages of the war, Daniel's armies were able to massively damage their opponents, which gave him the advantage throughout the rest of the war.

Either the AI needs to do this, or if this isn't possible you shouldn't be able to build planning bonuses while at peace. Otherwise the game is going to be very easy for human players when they declare war on AI countries.

The whole concept of the Battle Plan system coupled with Planning bonuses is a bit bizarre but you are probably right because without a Defensive Planning bonus comparable to the Offensive bonus any army is at a serious disadvantage.


With regards the AI creating a Counter-Attack Plan I find it hard to imagine that it could, not only would it require the AI to be able to visualise where to create an Offensive Front line it would also require that the enemy would allow the AI the time to gain that bonus.


At its best the AI may be able to create a Plan focusing on a lost Victory Point but even then it must be able to hold the enemy back so its forces involved in the counter-attack can gain the bonus.


As far as I can tell the AI needs to have in place an Offensive Battle Plan a month before there is an actual attack by the Player, if its too early the AI will gradually lose the bonus and if its too late it wont have gained enough of the bonus.

.

Imagine for Barbarossa you had a bonus of 50% for the Germans just for drawing an Offensive Front Line you would annihilate the Russian AI and the more Russian Divisions you could tempt to defend their border the better.

 

[jockedahl]

My gut feeling is that the plan bonus might be too high. I feel it should be pretty low unless you tech that doctrine. And then you get continually get substantial bonuses.