The AI gets too much Victory Score

[SolKrinfu]

Although my empire has built 3 mega structures, researched the entire tech tree, defeated the Grey Tempest, and fought a war of independence against an awakened empire and won, I still do not even have enough Victory score to overtake two AI empires, much less the fallen & awakened empires. Also, why is fleet power not a category for the Victory Score, I find it odd that although the Awakened Empire has no fleet left, it doesn't affect their score at all. The Awakened Empire also has 10,000 extra score because the Prethoryn scourge spawned next to them and got annihilated immediately.

also, the second most powerful AI is a one star system primitive species which seems to have spawned with the entire tech tree + repeatables.

 

[Snake_Squeezins]

I agree, Fallen/Awakened Empires should not be included on the scoreboard.

Fleet Power definitely should be included in the score. It's one of only three items used to calculate "Relative Powwer" in the diplomatic menu, and is seems as if this is an oversight. Worth reporting it in the Bug Forum.

And that single-star spawn is worth reporting as a bug on the Bug Forum, hopefully with a saved game attached. Seems strange.

 

[Osgiliath]

Yeah is lame, but Fallem Empire get huge points just because have the tech tree really developed and if they awake they vassalize half the galaxy giving them another huge boost in poinst. I think I only ever been first playing Tall and making repetable tech early.

 

[Siri]

Never found it to be a problem. If they're so weak compared to you you should have killed them off while you had more time before the score screen left. Incidentally that's also how military might factors in. There's no reason for it to be a part of the score for that reason, and it would just mean empires who are playing a peaceful game should throw much more money at a fleet than their playstyle warrants.

 

[TofuFox]

Victory conditions in Stellaris have always been kinda meh, but Fleet Power can go up and down too easily for an end of game score ranking - it can be accumulated for the short term just by building an unsupportable fleet, especially if you use the market, and can be low if 2 nations happen to be in a war when 2500 ticks over. Score mostly comes from more stable sources of power, which your higher fleet power can secure. The exception being the Crisis fleet kills, which is a certain amount of spawn luck, to be sure, but isn't the reason the Awakened Empire took first place there. Killing Grey Tempest ships would certainly be a reasonable score addition, and I can see bending the curve on Technology score so the FE/AE aren't quite as strong from it, but I think including FE/AE is reasonable enough given that you can take them out before 2500, and if they don't awaken then all their scores other than Tech Level won't be great.

On the other hand, some of this may be due to map size and it may need some tuning there. The AE/FE are 4th, 5th, 9th (and dead) in my current game, but it may be easier to get score and have AIs avoid being vassilized on larger maps, due to larger Federations. It's certainly helping the score of the non-FE/AEs in my game, anyway, even if the AEs neighbors aren't in any Federations.

 

[Xeorm]

Fleet power doesn't make as much sense to me because it's so volatile. One of those things that if you were worried about score should be translated into using it more than it being a straight bonus. Go conquer some subjects and such if you're looking for score.

The only issue I see with their score particularly is the high technology value. That's a lot of score to start out with that's hard to actually catch up on.

 

[Jibril]

I see... Thanks for this post!

I shall purge all the FEs.

 

[Riftwalker]

i feel that fleet power is just an extension of your tech and economics, so it not being included isn't a big deal. however, fallen empires and awakened empires shouldn't be included. (better than it being included, so you can just build way over cap at endgame for extra points... or vice versa and it being destroyed)

that one other out lier, i bet is an empire that was uplifted by one of the awakened empire...

also, thanks for helping me find where I can view this. XD, i'm number 3, behind a fallen empire and 1 other empire, but i'm a simple 5 colony mega corp, so I feel this is fine. (most of my points are from pop and technology.)

 

[Sifer2]

I don't think things have changed all that much if you want to officially win. Before you either had to aggressively conquer/vassalize at some point to get the planets needed to win. Or you had to be in a big enough Federation. Like mentioned if you used your super fleets to conquer or turn weak AI's into Vassals you would probably be doing much better. Sounds like you got unlucky with the Crisis though either way. Guess that's a new way the player can get screwed out of victory under this system. The whole system seems designed more for multiplayer to me anyway.

 

[Siri]

The only issue I see with their score particularly is the high technology value. That's a lot of score to start out with that's hard to actually catch up on.

In 300 years, it's not that much. Without that tech it would be completely trivial. If you develop a good economy your economic score will basically get you there by itself way before 2500 even playing as a tall empire. And without intending to come across as a jerk, frankly, if you can't get past that score, you don't deserve to win.

 

[Leylos]

If you don't include fallen empires in the scoreboard you may as well remove the scoreboard for singleplayer. They are the only faction that can at the moment reasonably keep up with the player with points. Fleet power isn't included in the score because it can fluctuate very rapidly. At the end of the day your economic power determines how much ships you can build.

If you think they are too strong, then please lower the difficulty. That's what the option is for.

 

[LWE]

Yeah, I like that Fallen Empires serve as the “target to overcome” from the beginning.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I see no reason why Awakened Empires should not be in the list only to make things "easy", that is a bad argument. They are there to be the ones you should surpass by the end game.

Fleet power should not be part of the score for the reasons already given, that is just logical. Fleets are just a tool and extension of your economic power anyway.

I you don't like the FE to be there you are also free to ignore them and just compare yourself with the other AI empires.

Also, if the AI have higher score it mean they have a stronger economy and technology development than you do, they don't get extra score for being AI.

 

[Riftwalker]

okay... just felt like rehashing this....

now that i know where the score thingy is, i;ve been monitoring it, and, as you can see by the in-game date, it's pretty doable to get up there.