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JScott991

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Even in version 1.02, the AI doesn't seem to disband obsolete ships, even though now MW's, frigates, and commerce raiders are completely outclassed by ironclads.

The AI only seems to replace ships as they are lost or when they go to war they expand their fleet building whatever the best ship available is. However, they will never disband their older ships and this leads to AI fleets remaining mostly MW's and frigates late into the 1870's, 80's, and even beyond.

1.02 has greatly improved the naval combat system, but I don't think it solved many of the issues leading to obsolete force mixes used by the AI. I know many people say the AI does build modern ships and they do build them under certain circumstances, but they aren't really going about it properly which leads to a very ahistorical and usually nonsensical naval balance of power (usually in my games the nations that stay at war the longest, such as Russia and Austria have the largest navies, consisting almost entirely of commerce raiders).

Also two other quibbles. The English AI doesn't value naval research at all. Usually they lag far behind a human player that is just pursuing a balanced research plan. Also, the commerce raider is far too overbuilt of a ship. Because of the new "fast" designations it seems that the raider is built as though it is a later cruiser design, and the fact is that the IC is superior in speed, firepower, and defense. There is no reason to build the raider at all in my opinion, but the AI seems to build it primarily.
 

Darkrenown

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Yeah, the AI is too attached to it's MoWs to scrap them and build battleships. I belive Johan mentioned he was looking at this for the next patch. Not seen anything mentioned about your other 2 quibbles though.
 

Johnny Canuck

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JScott991 said:
Also, the commerce raider is far too overbuilt of a ship. Because of the new "fast" designations it seems that the raider is built as though it is a later cruiser design, and the fact is that the IC is superior in speed, firepower, and defense. There is no reason to build the raider at all in my opinion, but the AI seems to build it primarily.

The commerce raider is a superior warship to either the manowar or the frigate, which does make it valuable for a short period of time before the advent of ironclads & monitors. Playing as the British once, one of my manowar-heavy fleets got smacked around by a Russian squadron of commerce raiders.
 

Johnny Canuck

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Kvlt 45 said:
How is the CR superior to the MoW? Its just faster. The MoW in my game has a higher attack and defense value then the raider.

From the 1.02 Readme:


- There is now a system for navalcombat, which differentiates between the three levels of ships, and makes it practically impossible for a manowar to sink a cruiser. There are 5 different naval levels. Top level is Dreadnought+Heavy Cruiser, while a new level was inserted between monitors and treeships, for commerce-raiders.
 

OriginalRafiki

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The numbers still count, but more so if fighting ships of the same class as itself.

:) Rafiki
 

Spruce

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do you loose prestige from scrapping ships?

do you get prestige for small ships like transports and cruisers?
 

JScott991

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The problem is that the raider's period is so small. By 1855-1860, a nation should be building just IC's and the tons of raiders the AI builds usually means he will not do it.

All of these issues could be fixed by having a disband AI that gets rid of the old ships, hopefully 1.03 will handle this better than 1.02, especially since the combat system seems to be in place.

Johnny Canuck said:
The commerce raider is a superior warship to either the manowar or the frigate, which does make it valuable for a short period of time before the advent of ironclads & monitors. Playing as the British once, one of my manowar-heavy fleets got smacked around by a Russian squadron of commerce raiders.
 

Gwalcmai

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Maybe the AI should be convinced to disband ships if they are two "quality levels" below the current tech. So the AI would have it's MW and FFs, build some commerce raiders but only if needed, and when it gets IC tech start swapping MW for IC.

But, on the raider outclassing the MW, that could definitely be debated. The raider would outrun the sailship, yes, but that's it's only advantage. If they came to blows, the raider would still be outgunned by the Man-o-war, or even by a frigate. And having no protection meant it would easily take enough damage to lose the speed advantage. It should have an advantage for blockading and be hard to "find" (the visibility in HOI, if that was carried) by sailships, but it probably shouldn't have an advantage (or not much of one) when it came time to trading cannon shots.

BTW, is there an effect to WE from blockading? Playing the UK fighting Russia, I was blockading almost every bit of russian coastline (parts of Siberia not covered) and their WE was rising about as quickly as mine.
 

Stingray

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I did a total makeover for the english fleets in 1900 in one of my games. Disbanding 300+ of obsolete "below cruiser class". Then the AI proceeded to build 50 DNs. :) So a system to fix the navy balance would be nice. Might give a better military score view as well.

The only AI I've ever seen to keep a large navy however, is the UK. In a game with a Mughal/Indian empire I have, Britain keeps a fleet of like 30+ DNs, closest is the US, with 1 DN, and 4 "new" (cruiser and above) ships total.
 

OriginalRafiki

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Seems to me that once a human player starts building modern ships, then so does the AI. At least in my games I've seen the UK maintaining an old fleet till I've started churning out BBs and DNs, which triggers the UK to do the same, seemingly.

:) Rafiki
 

Johnny Canuck

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JScott991 said:
The problem is that the raider's period is so small. By 1855-1860, a nation should be building just IC's and the tons of raiders the AI builds usually means he will not do it.

All of these issues could be fixed by having a disband AI that gets rid of the old ships, hopefully 1.03 will handle this better than 1.02, especially since the combat system seems to be in place.

There has been some work done on teaching the AI about disbanding obsolete warships & building newer ones, but I would agree that the current situation is not yet ideal.