The AI doesn't even care about it's forcelimit, it has ridiculously big armies!

[Kain3]

I just sat down yesterday to play a NA 2.1 game with Sweden, with the goal of making them first a Scandinavian, then a European power, playing on very hard. In previous versions of EU3 I did this once playing on VH, but this I time I quit the game after playing 20-30 years, and I have to agree with those who think that 2.1 is broken or flawed..

When you start with Sweden in 1453, you're already at war with your neighbours, Denmark and Norway. I crushed Norway fast because they're weaker, and this way you can achive a quick white peace with the Danes, thanks to the war score you get from the 0 fort Norwegian territories. I achieved this again, so during peace time I started building up my army so later I could start conquering Scandinavia.

But guess what happened? The AI is blatantly cheating, and while I had an army of 9000 troops (with a forcelimit of 8), Denmark had 13.000 and Norway 6000. This was a little fishy, so I checked their forcelimit, Denmark's is 7, Norway's is 3. I already found this annoying, but I said to myself "surely the AI just build them during wartime and will disband some of it".

But no, it won't disband, it keeps building it's army further, Denmark is already 15 regiments (forcelimit 7), Norway is 9 regiments (forcelimit 3). So Denmark is already 100% over it's forcelimit, Norway is 200% over! I also checked the Mamelukes, 45 regiments with a forcelimit of 26. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, we're not playing the same game, there's no way the human player could ever do this without going bankrupt or accumulating a huge inflation.

For sure I'm not going to play until this is fixed, the AI can't disregard it's forcelimit like that. (It does of course, because it's financially "unbreakable" with the latest patch.)

 

[unmerged(5308)]

I'm almost sure those are merceneries. He just buys them at January and keeps 0 money rest of the year since he can't go below 0. But yes really awfull. Try fighting some big states later. I have no idea how people play in 2.1 to be honest.

 

[grievous5226]

I have gone 30 ships over my limit and 20 forces over my land limit in EU3 1.3 ... Maybe you need to start minting?

 

[Kain3]

I have gone 30 ships over my limit and 20 forces over my land limit in EU3 1.3 ... Maybe you need to start minting?

You can do that, however that means that you're inflation will rise very fast, and since the AI barely gets inflation and spends all his monthly income on research, you'll be behind in tech in no time.

EDIT: and of course you still can't maintain as big armies as some of the AI country do, even if you mint.

 

[unmerged(86776)]

I have no idea how people play in 2.1 to be honest.

Well its not that bad but maybe its becouse i play with MMG and it fixes its problem in some ways...any way there are also Darken fixes...

 

[Kain3]

Well its not that bad but maybe its becouse i play with MMG and it fixes its problem in some ways...any way there are also Darken fixes...

In Darken's fix he just decreases the land_forcelimit of the AI countries, but in my opinion that doesn't work, since the AI already has two or three times more troops than it's limit.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

In Darken's fix he just decreases the land_forcelimit of the AI countries, but in my opinion that doesn't work, since the AI already has two or three times more troops than it's limit.

This does work. I have tested it extensively. Just try a game without my fix and then install my fix and test it again. you will see that without the fix, the AI will have about 2 to 3 times as many troops as they would have with my fix. once you install my fix into a game, after at least 10 years but probably even 5 years, the AI troop sizes will stabalize to my fix settings.

as for Ships, my fix does work but honestly I do not know if it is because of the ship build speed or cost....

 

[unmerged(88013)]

I actually prefer it this way; It was too easy previously.

If you want to win easy, maybe you should select an easier difficulty, or start with a stronger nation.

Personally, I like the strong AI. It now provides a strong challenge.

 

[unmerged(80153)]

I just sat down yesterday to play a NA 2.1 game with Sweden, with the goal of making them first a Scandinavian, then a European power, playing on very hard. In previous versions of EU3 I did this once playing on VH, but this I time I quit the game after playing 20-30 years, and I have to agree with those who think that 2.1 is broken or flawed..

When you start with Sweden in 1453, you're already at war with your neighbours, Denmark and Norway. I crushed Norway fast because they're weaker, and this way you can achive a quick white peace with the Danes, thanks to the war score you get from the 0 fort Norwegian territories. I achieved this again, so during peace time I started building up my army so later I could start conquering Scandinavia.

But guess what happened? The AI is blatantly cheating, and while I had an army of 9000 troops (with a forcelimit of 8), Denmark had 13.000 and Norway 6000. This was a little fishy, so I checked their forcelimit, Denmark's is 7, Norway's is 3. I already found this annoying, but I said to myself "surely the AI just build them during wartime and will disband some of it".

But no, it won't disband, it keeps building it's army further, Denmark is already 15 regiments (forcelimit 7), Norway is 9 regiments (forcelimit 3). So Denmark is already 100% over it's forcelimit, Norway is 200% over! I also checked the Mamelukes, 45 regiments with a forcelimit of 26. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, we're not playing the same game, there's no way the human player could ever do this without going bankrupt or accumulating a huge inflation.

For sure I'm not going to play until this is fixed, the AI can't disregard it's forcelimit like that. (It does of course, because it's financially "unbreakable" with the latest patch.)

While 2.1 has huge flaws, this is a poor example. You are playing on VERY HARD. The AI should get all those advantages on very hard. Part of the problem is that very hard wasn't actually that hard in earlier versions of the game. Now it is. Under patch 1.2, I would always play on very hard and kick ass with relative ease. After 1.3, I had to switch to hard for a fun game. Now I mostly play on normal with magna mundi because I got bored with the vanilla game, so I can't really comment as to whether normal or hard would be the appropriate difficulty now.

Needless to say, normal should be the level where you and the AI have an even playing field. The problem with 2.1 is that you don't. Anything above normal, though, you should expect huge advantages for the AI.

 

[unmerged(86776)]

I actually prefer it this way; It was too easy previously.

If you want to win easy, maybe you should select an easier difficulty, or start with a stronger nation.

Personally, I like the strong AI. It now provides a strong challenge.

Its not strong its cheating and is dumb...its like with player you cant tell him his pro if he cheats...

 

[Kain3]

I actually prefer it this way; It was too easy previously.

If you want to win easy, maybe you should select an easier difficulty, or start with a stronger nation.

Personally, I like the strong AI. It now provides a strong challenge.

The problem is not with the difficulty, it's with the way the AI works in the latest patches. It gets his annual income on January 1st, he spends it on troops or buildings (everything else is free), and then it completes the rest of the year with 0 money. (it pays the army upkeep, would go below zero but the game resets the AI's budget to 0, it can't go below that.)

So basically that means the AI can build as many troops as it wants, why care about the forcelimit when you can't go broke and when you barely get inflation? By the late game you'll see monster states with 500-800 regiment armies (not kidding!). There are other extreme cases like when a minor with a forcelimit of 1 is warring with 10 regiments, this for example can happen early in the game.

For sure that is challenging, I will always find a way to achieve victory, but this kind of ridiculous cheating doesn't just narrow down the ways you can win the game, it is also very annoying to see. I can't accept the AI cheating this much, the creators went completely overboard.. it's time they improve the AI's competitivness within the rules.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

So basically that means the AI can build as many troops as it wants, why care about the forcelimit when you can't go broke and when you barely get inflation? By the late game you'll see monster states with 500-800 regiment armies (not kidding!).

as you imply, this is exactly what the AI does. there are no checks within the AI code that asks 'do i have enough troops or ships yet?'.

the only way to deal with this problem until p'dox fixes the AI coding is to force the AI to follow a system of reduced (but balanced) forcelimits (which do work to reduce troop/ship levels) OR increase the forcelimits of weak nations in order to balance them with the huge nation inflated armies and navies. Failing to balance these armies and navies in either direction will result in blobbing, therefore this is not only a matter of making the game easier or harder, its about balance and realistic AI spendature.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

as you imply, this is exactly what the AI does. there are no checks within the AI code that asks 'do i have enough troops or ships yet?'.

Actually it has.. 300% of forcelimits is the target it aims for, as that is what a player goes for in combat.

 

[henryjai]

I'm almost sure those are merceneries. He just buys them at January and keeps 0 money rest of the year since he can't go below 0. But yes really awfull. Try fighting some big states later. I have no idea how people play in 2.1 to be honest.

i started world domination around 1740, crushing the world coalition against me in no time :rofl:.

but in early time it's really difficult to war, inflation is the killer for human.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Like in EU2, the forcelimit is more of a "you should probably stay at around his level of troops while at peace, at least so long as your economy is weak" indicator than anything else.

 

[kierun]

Actually it has.. 300% of forcelimits is the target it aims for, as that is what a player goes for in combat.

Wow, and there is me trying to keep my armies below my force limit even in wars. It does explains why it takes ages for me to get anywhere with my armies!

 

[unmerged(53922)]

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, we're not playing the same game, there's no way the human player could ever do this without going bankrupt or accumulating a huge inflation.

This is not true. I played successfull games with Teutonic Order, Poland, Sweden and my inflation was at about 10% and then I could revert this process thanks to income from my vassals and inflation reduction from national bank.

 

[unmerged(88150)]

Wow, and there is me trying to keep my armies below my force limit even in wars. It does explains why it takes ages for me to get anywhere with my armies!

Actually, with a decent strategy, you can win wars while keeping your army below the limit. Just shuffle them around to keep healthy ones on the front lines and weaker ones doing sieges in (relatively) safer provinces, also if you take advantage of chokepoints you can easily beat back bigger numbers even though it looks hopeless.

 

[kierun]

Actually, with a decent strategy, you can win wars while keeping your army below the limit. Just shuffle them around to keep healthy ones on the front lines and weaker ones doing sieges in (relatively) safer provinces, also if you take advantage of chokepoints you can easily beat back bigger numbers even though it looks hopeless.

Indeed, that's what I have been doing with mostly success.

I try to have my armies with 3/1/1 ratios of infantry, cavalry and artillery which in MMG means that I get spammed with "You're using too much cavalry, you bad boy!" messages...

 

[Kain3]

as you imply, this is exactly what the AI does. there are no checks within the AI code that asks 'do i have enough troops or ships yet?'.

the only way to deal with this problem until p'dox fixes the AI coding is to force the AI to follow a system of reduced (but balanced) forcelimits (which do work to reduce troop/ship levels) OR increase the forcelimits of weak nations in order to balance them with the huge nation inflated armies and navies. Failing to balance these armies and navies in either direction will result in blobbing, therefore this is not only a matter of making the game easier or harder, its about balance and realistic AI spendature.

Thanks Darken. Then I will probably try out your fix, anything is better than the current situation. I don't mind if the AI goes over it's forcelimit, but it has to stay between reasonable levels.