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unmerged(31131)

Second Lieutenant
Jun 26, 2004
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Yeah random events are good, like the military parade and stolen technologies events. I just wish their were more, kinda like playing monoply with those cards, they can be good or bad.
 
Jan 25, 2004
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Sign me up for The Historical Society (we oppose The Ahistorical Association on some issues).

Granted, many who post seem to like the ahistory, and don't get me wrong, to each their own is just fine. Unfortunately, I bought HOI seven months ago thinking it was more historically correct (like an updated version of War in Russia + Pacific War), and it is is not. Small, undeveloped countries can rule the Earth in HOI, which is a total turn off to True Wargamers (once called grognards). (I am not stating that games should be 100% historical, just certain parts should be less ahistorical.)

This is a tough choice for a developer: Stay true to history, and please the wargaming cummunity, or go for broke and please the Gamers First community (who love ahistory to the max). Well, we can't just count those who post, since most customers do not post. The New World Computing phenomena is quite dangerous (listen to a few complaints, make a change based on those complaints, product dies = M&M4).

Myself, I would rather see less ahistory along the lines of taking any country and being a world power. However, do not get upset, since I believe HOI 2 will be as ahistorical on this issue as HOI.

Note: Those of us that prefer a more accurate simulation can always force ourselves to play as such, letting the ahistorical association types have at it since the game will support ahistory. (In other words, we historical types can get by in an ahistorical setting). Besides, we are the minority it seems.

I just can't get over seeing silly things ("Allies DOW Comintern! -1939")

Am just pointing out the dangers of being too ahistorical. Ahistory will get their way, anyway.

Edit: After rereading Idealist's posts, we agree on many things ... but those desires are darn hard to implement. If it is possible for ahistory to creep in, even a 1% chance or less, it will. Now, I am not stating that I want, for example, Poland to join the Allies in March '39 all of the time, just the issues of economy I think are my main concern, and the misuse of diplomacy. I'm not trying to be argumentative and against the thoughts of the posts in the thread. I would rather see a historical wargame than a 'take any country and rule it all' concept. This is not easy to do since I, too, want control over economy and military buildup and techs.

In closing, I do not think HOI 2 will be the WWII game I have always wanted.
 
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unmerged(31131)

Second Lieutenant
Jun 26, 2004
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I thought we already went over we wanted Ahistory but at the same time realism. HOI2 Seems to limit the little mans ability to make war on the world, and it was already pretty hard for me being Argentina to get anything done when the USA took over the world due to the Monroe docterine. We are anti-event, not anti-realism. I think Idealist would say the same.
 

Maximilian I

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Wolf Hawken said:
Sign me up for The Historical Society (we oppose The Ahistorical Association).

.....

Note: Those of us that prefer a more accurate simulation can always force ourselves to play as such, letting the ahistorical association types have at it since the game will support ahistory. (In other words, we historical types can get by in an ahistorical setting). Besides, we are the minority it seems.

I just can't get over seeing silly things ("Allies DOW Comintern! -1939")

Am just pointing out the dangers of being too ahistorical. Ahistory will get their way, anyway.

ahistoric? I´m sorry to say that, but an allied DoW on the Soviet Union was more than likely:


http://www.winterwar.com

" On Feb. 6th, the Finnish government was told that the Allied High Command had decided to offer military help to Finland if it would be formally asked. (The allied motive behind this was morally questionable. The objective of the expedition force was firstly to increase military presence in Scandinavia, threatening the ore-transports from North Sweden to Germany, and secondly to help Finland.) The French had been especially fond of the idea, but the somewhat obscure plans were starting to get shape only after the British took a supportive stand during January 1940.

(The Soviet government was aware of these plans right from the start. The expedition force was a real threat to the Soviet government, as it was now possible that the Winter War would escalate into a conflict between the allies and the Soviet Union.)"

not only were they ready to doW the soviet union, parts of the forces that defended norway were in fact readied to be shipped to finland initially. furthermore, bases were prepared to bomb the soviet oilfields in the caucasus.

the example you gave is actually one thing that was VERY close to happening and should be in the game as possibility.

furthermore, the hoi1 patches now disallow a minor country to rule the world. imo, the 106b patch leaves now enough room for alternate histories while still staying reasonable. if the player doesn´t change the course of history too much, the game stays rather historical.
 
Jan 25, 2004
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Roffkaiser said:
I thought we already went over we wanted Ahistory but at the same time realism. HOI2 Seems to limit the little mans ability to make war on the world, and it was already pretty hard for me being Argentina to get anything done when the USA took over the world due to the Monroe docterine. We are anti-event, not anti-realism. I think Idealist would say the same.
Aye, I see that now that I have reread the posts closer a third time. ;)
 

unmerged(25612)

Colonel
Feb 10, 2004
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Wolf Hawken said:
Aye, I see that now that I have reread the posts closer a third time. ;)
:rofl:

Sorry. I am not a native English speaker, and yet I try to be eloquant for some odd reason. Causes much misunderstanding. :p

To recap:

-We oppose force-history.

That includes:

1.County AIs that do something because of:

a) The date. (USSR begins buidling infantry in 1940.)
b) The TAG of another country. (Forced US-Spain war in Vic, anyone?)

2.Events that do something because of the TAG of a country:

a)It makes no sense getting SS troops from Odessa as a democratic Germany attacking the rebellious nation of Ukraine that revolted from a Fascist USSR. (Just to make an example how different it could be...)

...



Random events = good.
The tech tree without laser pistols, etc. = good.

Forced history events = bad.
Forced history AIs = bad.
Forced history hidden tech tables = bad.
Hidden forced history bonuses/maluses = bad. (Colonization bonus for Portugal and Spain in EUII v.1.0, anyone?)



The ideal situation for us is that we start HOI2, choose "historic events" OFF. Start the game, and be free, within the limitations of the techtree.

This way we can end the game in 1947 seeing almost any outcome that is possible mathematically. (Estonia could have not gone a WC alone.)

The ultimate goal is to have a "free ride" game mode, so to speak. The ultimate simulation.
 

unmerged(25612)

Colonel
Feb 10, 2004
847
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Stoner said:
Hey, just play vanilla HoI. Barring laser pistols, How much more ahistorical do want to be?
Ahistoricy is a bad word I agree. Non-historic baybe? However the "Nonhistoric association" does not have so much ring to it...

Maybe Coreless? (As in non-core. But then again CORE did some good job with new techtrees and random events, and AIs etc, etc... So we do not want to be associated as a group that dislikes CORE.

Maybe: "Non-Forced History" - Group?

Or maybe "Not So Directed Actions - Players"? The NSDAP has a ring to it... But then again somehow I feel the need not to get associated with a group with such an Acronym...


With the above options dismissed, I think we`ll stick with the name, albeit the misunderstandings... :)



As for the rest of your post, it would seem you would seem to fit our group ideologically. Do you accept the challenge to edit your signature and allow the use of your nickname?
 

unmerged(31131)

Second Lieutenant
Jun 26, 2004
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so how many members are there idealist? We will be able to force a coup soon....soon. ;)
 

unmerged(25612)

Colonel
Feb 10, 2004
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Roffkaiser said:
so how many members are there idealist? We will be able to force a coup soon....soon. ;)
Eight at the moment.... Although.... Hidden negotiations are taking place as we speak... About what you ask? Can`t tell you! ;)

Our numbers are rising steadily and soon the sun shall rise and light a new day! A day of AhA!

:)
 

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ahistoric playing? thats mostly me :)
but i say, ahistoricalism cant be as some special way of play, thats happens in any game for any player, cant be all just straightly historical, nonsence, after you through just few seconds of play there already can be tons of ahistorical actions in your game, talking more paradox games like war games theory, when positions sets as they are IRL but all next is going just freely, and outcome depends on skills of sides not on history of course, theres few keypoints(events) which barely can change something, and surely cant reset the game in known historic position again, and its the way this games so fun, always something new, how this can be spoken if there isnt possibilities, arent we just sitting and watching history channel on paradox game engine ;)
 

Phystarstk

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Hey, I want in! I love this kind of thing!
Like, I enjoy the events in Europa Universalis II, but only because there were things I wanted to be able to do that only events could do. Like, if a nation holds like-cultured areas for like 200 years, then they should probably be considered cores. Stuff like that. I definitely throw my hat into this though, it sounds mega-cool.
 

daedalus

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sign me in,

I hate mods, even when I know this groups is not about mods/no mods, for me game balancing and playability (ie. programmers point of view) is much more important than historicity (many mods point of view).
 

unmerged(15723)

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Mar 21, 2003
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Panzeh said:
I'd like the removal of hardcoded tag-stuff, primarily for modding.
daedalus said:
I hate mods, even when I know this groups is not about mods/no mods, for me game balancing and playability (ie. programmers point of view) is much more important than historicity (many mods point of view).
The opinion of this association seems rather unclear. :)
 

unmerged(25612)

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Feb 10, 2004
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Aldo said:
The opinion of this association seems rather unclear. :)
The goal is the same. Both want to get rid off the events and hardcodings that Paradox puts in.

The other wants to do this so he can put his own stuff in.

The other just leaves it be.


This proves that the group fits for everyone, sign out today and you will recieve a huge discount on HOI2: If you buy one HOI2 for the price of two, you will get one for free!
 

coreymas

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Aldo,

Speaking as a programmer, most programers hate "Hard Coding" as it restricts the application.

Also the term Hard Coding refers to actual programming code inside of a program that cannot be changed in any way by a user of an application. (Unless the user has a decomplier and decompiles the code ... etc and the average user is not able to do that)

I think what Idealist is asking for is to minimize the Historical events in HOI2 and to not include in the programming code any logic that would be historically based.

This I can agree on as long as not including that programming logic does not cause the total failure of the program.

Corey
 

Wämö

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I'm definetaly in. :)
 
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