the 3rd exp is revealed

[Snorro Soliman]

So my only disappointment is it appears they are going to be arc/psi. We already have arc/psi with Syndicate. They could have easily gone therm(laser)/psi. I mean come on, space paladins. Half the portrayals of paladins call down holy fire. Plus giant mechas wielding laser swords with psyker pilots. I didn't even realize I wanted this until I saw the missed opportunity.

Psi? Wasnt it Arc(paladins) and Entrophy (seers) with a new line of enthropic mods and without Energy Drain?

 

[Ericridge]

So my only disappointment is it appears they are going to be arc/psi. We already have arc/psi with Syndicate. They could have easily gone therm(laser)/psi. I mean come on, space paladins. Half the portrayals of paladins call down holy fire. Plus giant mechas wielding laser swords with psyker pilots. I didn't even realize I wanted this until I saw the missed opportunity.

Laser probably would be quite bit broken. XD Laser has instant kill module.

 

[Draxynnic]

Where'd ya find this?

Oathbound? Paladins? Doesn't sound very Tigran inspired sadly.

Then again.

Ser Tabby reporting for questing duty!

How can anyone be sure there aren't space Tigrans IN some of those mechs? Eh? Eh?

hmm ok. space paladins. not too thrilled by the idea, but i guess it could be worse.

not sure how that new faction could justify using the malicious secret techs (psynumbra, xenoplague, promethean). but i guess it could still work out. just because you're supposed to be an order of righteous paladins fighting for the good doesn't necessarily mean that you can't overshoot your goal and become the monster you were supposed to defeat - maybe even without realizing it and still considering yourself good and righteous.

Promethean isn't really all that malicious until you get to the doomsday, and at that point they're ALL pretty nasty (even Celestian is essentially mass mind control at that point).

Psynumbra and xenoplague both have examples in the campaign of characters who use it in a more academic or practical sense rather than fully buying into the philosophies involves. Psynumbra is certainly the most clearly 'evil' of the secret techs, but both the Kir'ko protagonist and one of the Ardellis are using it more as a means to better understand the Void rather than necessarily having gone full evil (although the Kir'ko protagonist obviously can take that route if the player chooses). Similarly, for all the fluff text about how evil Heritor tech can become if misused, in the campaign it was presented as something that could also be fairly virtuous.

There's probably also the possibility that you could consider Psynumbra Oathbound to be Oathbound that are in the process of falling.

 

[The Numi]

Promethean isn't really all that malicious until you get to the doomsday, and at that point they're ALL pretty nasty (even Celestian is essentially mass mind control at that point).

Psynumbra and xenoplague both have examples in the campaign of characters who use it in a more academic or practical sense rather than fully buying into the philosophies involves. Psynumbra is certainly the most clearly 'evil' of the secret techs, but both the Kir'ko protagonist and one of the Ardellis are using it more as a means to better understand the Void rather than necessarily having gone full evil (although the Kir'ko protagonist obviously can take that route if the player chooses). Similarly, for all the fluff text about how evil Heritor tech can become if misused, in the campaign it was presented as something that could also be fairly virtuous.

There's probably also the possibility that you could consider Psynumbra Oathbound to be Oathbound that are in the process of falling.

Indeed! None of the secret techs are inherently good or evil, I always feel that with civilizations so far into the future they've have abandoned such concepts and that the technologies are neutral until whoever uses them for whatever means. Ofcourse you do see more evil characters with say Promethean, but I feel you can make just as many villains with Celestian only that they'd be bit more complex.

Either way I can see Psynumbra Oathbound using that tech as a means to an end, sorta more as a tool to fight those it may be useful for, and you can kinda fit the idea of a Commander who adopted the tech out of necessity to understand and fight the voidbringers, or other certain factions. In a way that's kinda more interesting than noble champions + Celestian = paladins with trying to break things down into more AoW3/fantasy simplistic themes.

Mostly though you can put it down to all secret techs for any commander/faction you play as being handy tools they adopted for certain needs or that that secret tech was the only one they've managed to gain sufficient knowledge of to continue studying and the other techs are lost to them, which since Oathbound seem connected to Star Union that can fit. Secret techs are secret techs for a reason and that's that they are advanced complex tech that aren't widely known or atleast hard enough to understand you need to focus on one of them, so that reasoning works for any faction except Shakarn, but for them it can be seen more as it's the tech they managed to gain knowledge of from infiltrating.

 

[DragonZee]

Wait what? Psynumbra is about being depressed 24/7 and generally making the world end Even Heritors are less evil then that (immortal vampires that turn into immortal vampire zombies if they can't feed)... and they at least give something in return

 

[Snorro Soliman]

On a more serious note I believe the secret techs are positioned just so that they fit a variety of ' head canons'.
For example, I play a Vanguard commander in the MP i should be writing up (coming soon guys!) whose ship got stuck in the hyperlane net during the destruction of the gates. Caught between worlds, these explorers harnessed the power of their unique state and learned the secrets of Voidtech.
Another commander, an Assembly drone, I imagine having stumbled upon a Heritor tomb, where he struck a deal with a starving Heritor Lord; preserve his essence, in exchange for the secrets over life and death.
Or an Amazon who saw her physical perfection and her people's focus upon genemodding as a flaw, and instead sought enlightement with a small cult, learning Celestian secrets by drug-induced meditation.

My point? The techs are positioned as techs for a reason: they are tools to be wielded, as has already been stated above. The moral decisions you make (limited as they are in the framework of planetfall) are yours.
Psynumbra does strain this mold though. Although I could see it as a form of ' normless' nihilistic pragmatism; the fall of the union unleashed horror and suffering on an undreamt scale. Psynumbra weaponizes and exploits this as a resource. Your commander simply uses these tools to bring order, peace and prosperity to his people. Even the suffering of the few (Initiation Rites and Torment Channelers) is used effectively. Desperation thus becomes a strenght, depression a weapon.
Heady stuff....or...its just demons...you decide

 

[Ridixo]

So my only disappointment is it appears they are going to be arc/psi. We already have arc/psi with Syndicate. They could have easily gone therm(laser)/psi. I mean come on, space paladins. Half the portrayals of paladins call down holy fire. Plus giant mechas wielding laser swords with psyker pilots. I didn't even realize I wanted this until I saw the missed opportunity.

Arc / Entropy for the Gundambound

Here is the DD:

Announcing DLC 3 for Age of Wonders Planetfall: Star Kings!

Hello Everyone! Today we are proud to announce the 3rd expansion for Age of Wonders: Planetfall! Star Kings follows the new race, the Oathbound, on their quest to regain the Grail Configuration from the heart of Star Union space in order to...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[DragonZee]

Psynumbra does strain this mold though. Although I could see it as a form of ' normless' nihilistic pragmatism; the fall of the union unleashed horror and suffering on an undreamt scale. Psynumbra weaponizes and exploits this as a resource. Your commander simply uses these tools to bring order, peace and prosperity to his people. Even the suffering of the few (Initiation Rites and Torment Channelers) is used effectively. Desperation thus becomes a strenght, depression a weapon.
Heady stuff....or...its just demons...you decide

When you look at it I think each of the Secret Tech are kinda extreme in the final stages. Promethean looks to purge everything, Xenoplague wants to flood the world with bioengineered monstrosities (actually at every corner this tech is described as very dangerous for all indigenous life) and Synthesis wants you to leave your physical form and become a virtual being. But Psynumbra kind of struck me like the most evil as it wants to cover everything in darkness and leave the populace in a state of permanent non-existance of one's mind... basically it uses negative emotions to supress and dominate the minds of others. And summons evil ghost beings from other dimensions

 

[Ericridge]

I consider Heritors to be leeches. They drain your life force so that they can live longer. Thus, I don't have any qualms about shooting them on sight. They're very very very guilt free target practice. Closest equivalent I can think of is the Wraiths from Stargate Atlantis. I consider both of them to be in same pool.

 

[Draxynnic]

Indeed! None of the secret techs are inherently good or evil, I always feel that with civilizations so far into the future they've have abandoned such concepts and that the technologies are neutral until whoever uses them for whatever means. Ofcourse you do see more evil characters with say Promethean, but I feel you can make just as many villains with Celestian only that they'd be bit more complex.

Either way I can see Psynumbra Oathbound using that tech as a means to an end, sorta more as a tool to fight those it may be useful for, and you can kinda fit the idea of a Commander who adopted the tech out of necessity to understand and fight the voidbringers, or other certain factions. In a way that's kinda more interesting than noble champions + Celestian = paladins with trying to break things down into more AoW3/fantasy simplistic themes.

Mostly though you can put it down to all secret techs for any commander/faction you play as being handy tools they adopted for certain needs or that that secret tech was the only one they've managed to gain sufficient knowledge of to continue studying and the other techs are lost to them, which since Oathbound seem connected to Star Union that can fit. Secret techs are secret techs for a reason and that's that they are advanced complex tech that aren't widely known or atleast hard enough to understand you need to focus on one of them, so that reasoning works for any faction except Shakarn, but for them it can be seen more as it's the tech they managed to gain knowledge of from infiltrating.

Wait what? Psynumbra is about being depressed 24/7 and generally making the world end Even Heritors are less evil then that (immortal vampires that turn into immortal vampire zombies if they can't feed)... and they at least give something in return

On a more serious note I believe the secret techs are positioned just so that they fit a variety of ' head canons'.
For example, I play a Vanguard commander in the MP i should be writing up (coming soon guys!) whose ship got stuck in the hyperlane net during the destruction of the gates. Caught between worlds, these explorers harnessed the power of their unique state and learned the secrets of Voidtech.
Another commander, an Assembly drone, I imagine having stumbled upon a Heritor tomb, where he struck a deal with a starving Heritor Lord; preserve his essence, in exchange for the secrets over life and death.
Or an Amazon who saw her physical perfection and her people's focus upon genemodding as a flaw, and instead sought enlightement with a small cult, learning Celestian secrets by drug-induced meditation.

My point? The techs are positioned as techs for a reason: they are tools to be wielded, as has already been stated above. The moral decisions you make (limited as they are in the framework of planetfall) are yours.
Psynumbra does strain this mold though. Although I could see it as a form of ' normless' nihilistic pragmatism; the fall of the union unleashed horror and suffering on an undreamt scale. Psynumbra weaponizes and exploits this as a resource. Your commander simply uses these tools to bring order, peace and prosperity to his people. Even the suffering of the few (Initiation Rites and Torment Channelers) is used effectively. Desperation thus becomes a strenght, depression a weapon.
Heady stuff....or...its just demons...you decide

You're kind of all right.

Trumph has described at least one Psynumbra entity as a 'demon', and has drawn the analogy of Celestian and Psynumbra being like the light and dark side of the Force respectively. The Psynumbra certainly seems to involve entities that one would consider 'evil', and let's not forget that the ultimate Psynumbra unit requires mass sacrifice to summon permanently.

That said, how many times in media have we seen evil power used for neutral or even good purposes? What I presume to be the canon ending of the final AoW3 campaign involves a heroic necromancer... albeit one that's probably acting more out of the interest of his race than the world as a whole, but never the less. Similarly, demonic binding and the channeling of related energies is something that, depending on the setting, could be something that is inevitably corrupting... or it could be a practical means of fighting fire with fire or using demonic power against something even worse.

In the Planetfall context specifically, most Psynumbra commanders you meet in the main campaign are working for

Spoiler

Carminia

. For Poz, however, it's more a matter of reflecting the general state of the Kir'ko psionic gestalt, and

Spoiler

your choices can determine whether he succumbs to it or keeps it under control.

. Meanwhile,

Spoiler

Dali Ardellie seems to be more interested in mining the Psynumbra for angsty music rather than aligning with it philosophically, or at least so he claims.

All up, there is definitely something objectively dark about the Psynumbra as a whole, and as a general assumption it's probably reasonably safe to say that most Psynumbra users are on the evil side. But it's not a tool that you have to be evil to use (although there are certain abilities in the tree where, if you're using them... you probably can't realistically say you're the good guy from a roleplaying perspective. Kinda similar to how while you can certainly play good Syndicate, from a roleplaying perspective you probably shouldn't be putting control collars on everything if that's what you're playing).

I consider Heritors to be leeches. They drain your life force so that they can live longer. Thus, I don't have any qualms about shooting them on sight. They're very very very guilt free target practice. Closest equivalent I can think of is the Wraiths from Stargate Atlantis. I consider both of them to be in same pool.

Heritor is probably the ultimate example of a tech where its moral status depends on how you use it.

The Heritor Purge happened in the end because it ended up being twisted into its most twisted state, where the powerful drained the life force from everyone below them to fuel their own eternal life. However, the fluff text indicates that it didn't start there. At its more innocuous level, it's a technology that allows the healthy to donate their life force to the sick, and which allows the statement "my loved one lives on in my mind" to become literal fact by facilitating voluntary, symbiotic soul melding. If the source of the life force is coming from donors who are doing so in a genuinely voluntary fashion, it's not inherently evil.

Now, the gameplay mechanic does involve it being weaponised to drain life force from your enemy... but like any weapon, the morality of this depends on why you're fighting in the first place. Are you specifically going out to harvest life force from your victims, like the Wraith in Atlantis? Clearly evil. Is it just one more weapon in a just war? An enemy killed through life drain is probably no worse off than being killed by a bullet (or a plasma bolt, or some VoidTech-induced instability). Clearly, there is a strong temptation to misuse Es'Teq, but that doesn't mean that every Heritor is necessarily evil.

 

[The Numi]

You're kind of all right.

Trumph has described at least one Psynumbra entity as a 'demon', and has drawn the analogy of Celestian and Psynumbra being like the light and dark side of the Force respectively. The Psynumbra certainly seems to involve entities that one would consider 'evil', and let's not forget that the ultimate Psynumbra unit requires mass sacrifice to summon permanently.

That said, how many times in media have we seen evil power used for neutral or even good purposes? What I presume to be the canon ending of the final AoW3 campaign involves a heroic necromancer... albeit one that's probably acting more out of the interest of his race than the world as a whole, but never the less. Similarly, demonic binding and the channeling of related energies is something that, depending on the setting, could be something that is inevitably corrupting... or it could be a practical means of fighting fire with fire or using demonic power against something even worse.

In the Planetfall context specifically, most Psynumbra commanders you meet in the main campaign are working for

Spoiler

Carminia

. For Poz, however, it's more a matter of reflecting the general state of the Kir'ko psionic gestalt, and

Spoiler

your choices can determine whether he succumbs to it or keeps it under control.

. Meanwhile,

Spoiler

Dali Ardellie seems to be more interested in mining the Psynumbra for angsty music rather than aligning with it philosophically, or at least so he claims.

All up, there is definitely something objectively dark about the Psynumbra as a whole, and as a general assumption it's probably reasonably safe to say that most Psynumbra users are on the evil side. But it's not a tool that you have to be evil to use (although there are certain abilities in the tree where, if you're using them... you probably can't realistically say you're the good guy from a roleplaying perspective. Kinda similar to how while you can certainly play good Syndicate, from a roleplaying perspective you probably shouldn't be putting control collars on everything if that's what you're playing).


Heritor is probably the ultimate example of a tech where its moral status depends on how you use it.

The Heritor Purge happened in the end because it ended up being twisted into its most twisted state, where the powerful drained the life force from everyone below them to fuel their own eternal life. However, the fluff text indicates that it didn't start there. At its more innocuous level, it's a technology that allows the healthy to donate their life force to the sick, and which allows the statement "my loved one lives on in my mind" to become literal fact by facilitating voluntary, symbiotic soul melding. If the source of the life force is coming from donors who are doing so in a genuinely voluntary fashion, it's not inherently evil.

Now, the gameplay mechanic does involve it being weaponised to drain life force from your enemy... but like any weapon, the morality of this depends on why you're fighting in the first place. Are you specifically going out to harvest life force from your victims, like the Wraith in Atlantis? Clearly evil. Is it just one more weapon in a just war? An enemy killed through life drain is probably no worse off than being killed by a bullet (or a plasma bolt, or some VoidTech-induced instability). Clearly, there is a strong temptation to misuse Es'Teq, but that doesn't mean that every Heritor is necessarily evil.

You pretty much hit the nail on its head! Exactly what I was thinking in terms of the techs. Celestian and Psynumbra ofcourse leans towards two different sides and one is more likely to be used for good and the other evil. By flipping them you could create an anti-hero with Psynumbra and an anti-villain with Celestian, though you can just as easily create an anti-villain out of Psynumbra user, in the case of Oathbound using it seem to fit that very well.

And for Heritor, my mind is exactly on the part that an enemy killed by any other weapon doesn't make it any more evil, especially when Heritor tech can actually utilize someone's drained life for good intentions. Not like someone is in any more torment having their life drained than a Promethean coming in with hellfire or Voidtech warping your body into dimensional instability.

 

[Leon Feargus]

I was thinking about a mod for benevolent syndicate. It would include the doctrine: Fulfilled Contracts. When an Indentured unit reaches prime rank it is returned to society (the unit disappears and you gain one colonist). I mean, they already have the resurrect ability on their Subjugator, a trait that was previously courtesy of the Archon Saint.

 

[fang]

So my only disappointment is it appears they are going to be arc/psi. We already have arc/psi with Syndicate. They could have easily gone therm(laser)/psi. I mean come on, space paladins. Half the portrayals of paladins call down holy fire. Plus giant mechas wielding laser swords with psyker pilots. I didn't even realize I wanted this until I saw the missed opportunity.

I don’t think they’re going to be arc/psy. It’s going to be arc/entropic damage chanels.

 

[Ridixo]

The dev diary makes things quite clear people:

Spoiler: Oathbound damage channels

And i like this combo

At first, reading the steam spoiler, the Oathbound looked kinda boring. But the more i see of them the more interested i am. I wanna know their units, where they have been and who they are

 

[LikeAFred]

I think the Oathbound should have been the main human race unlike the vanguards, cause to be honest the vanguards are pretty uninteresting for the "human race" unlike the oathbound who have a nice little twist to them. The Vanguards are so normal and mainstream for a sci-fi game

 

[LikeAFred]

Another topic: Where to you think will the 3 new npc races will be integrated? Many mayor Npc factions integrated the npc wildlife into there armies or the buildings had them as there defenders. what do you think? in which building or Npc faction will they be included?

the spore maybe come to the growth or the spacers, while the rocks probably go with psynumbra things like the temple or the spwaner thing for them. But the oathbound npc faction i really dont know, maybe the seers to the heritores and the other to assembly/paragon?

 

[DragonZee]

Another topic: Where to you think will the 3 new npc races will be integrated? Many mayor Npc factions integrated the npc wildlife into there armies or the buildings had them as there defenders. what do you think? in which building or Npc faction will they be included?

Interesting thing to consider. Hmm I belive there will be unique spawners, at least for the rock vampires which seem like a very hostile faction. And those will probably be added to stacks of the already existing Quartzites.

Also, don't forget there are these new "Grail" structures which kinda work like Anomalus sites, so there's a chance those new wildlife units will be used there (dark "Oathbound" being a perfect candidate for guardians of such structures).

 

[Damkac]

I think the Oathbound should have been the main human race unlike the vanguards, cause to be honest the vanguards are pretty uninteresting for the "human race" unlike the oathbound who have a nice little twist to them. The Vanguards are so normal and mainstream for a sci-fi game

But all factions are based on common sci-fi tropes and space soldiers are a vey common trope. For me too Vanguard is kind of boring but many people like them. Aren't they the most popular faction in the game?

 

[LikeAFred]

Yeah they are

I just miss the nice little twist that every other race has but they are just blank humans with weapons that are even today not so far of. When every thing seems pretty spacy and futuristic they are just normal and lame in comparison

 

[The Numi]

I actually like Vanguard for that reason and their lore of pretty much being the forefront of Star Union colonization, going to, exploring and meeting the unknown, and given how they've been gone in stasis as opposed to the other factions it makes them feel kinda "outdated" as nothing of them changed since the union's collapse. So their fairly basic militaristic look, caring little for aesthetics, fits a force that was meant to do a certain job where that didn't matter, as opposed to forces that was more inside the Star Union itself, like Paragon's aesthetic.

I feel their twist is more of a kinda basic human force thrust into a sci-fi setting, but instead of them being the explorers representing humanity, they're now going backwards, rediscovering the Star Union and it's their home being the now uncharted unknown alien worlds and them being the outsiders.