- Dec 14, 1999
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The 3 tiers...
- Thread starter Johan
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Wow. It took 1073 posts for the developer to succumb to the community's demands. A siege usually lasts much less than that.
We didn't. They are just suggested starting countries, they are still in tier 2.
Bookmarks are about dates, not countries.
I'd add Burgundy, seeing as 1444 is exactly the time they are interesting. Maybe slightly less than 1419, but still 
I'd add Burgundy, seeing as 1444 is exactly the time they are interesting. Maybe slightly less than 1419, but still
Wouldn't Burgundy play out as a poor mans France though?
There is an argument to be made that the United States is still in the preponderance stage ... perhaps simultaneous with Europe (in general) being in decline stage (the EU grand experiment is devolving).
I've read a book on these cycles and kondratieff waves or whatever they are called, and IIRC the USA are/were about to repeat a global power cycle. Like Britain did. Or they can fail it, like Spain and France failed when they appeared to be the ones getting it.
Oh damn. I'm enjoying America being all-powerful and mighty. I really don't want to learn another language once someone else becomes a superpower.
I hope the Holy Roman Empire gets some love regarding events etc. as well. It's not a country, but its dynamics are more important for Europe than those of most of the Tier 2 countries for sure. Like having a DHE that leads to the Thirty Years' War.
a fully functionial HRE would rock but the Thirty's years war should be something that can be somewhat replicated by events.
That and an actual nation decline if your ruler blows. I dunno its just i superblob then i get a 3/3/3 ruler but you dont crumble at all heck you just go on to conquer another nation or three. Im hoping monarch points help simulate this.
Will countries on Tier 4 linked in a close way to Tier 1-3 nations gain some the flavour of those nations. Such as Muscowy-Russia and Novgorod having some bleed over into Smolensk, Ryazan, Yaroslavl and Pskov? Or Byzantium into Morea or Trebizond?
By the way, will England still start out with an ahistorically monster navy at a time when Venice and Ottoman were the premier naval powers?
Also, why are you a renegade coder?
The great galley powers, in the Mediterranean,certainly.
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Ah, I see. Because, well, if it had anything to do with mechanics, then adjustments would need to be made for some periods, I believe, one of them being the Commonwealth (Poland-Lithuania). For example, if you load up in 1399, Austria has nothing on either Poland or Lithuania and, say, until very late 17th century Muscovy is clearly a less important power than Poland-Lithuania (eclipse starts from about 1650 but takes a while due to the relatively smally prestige of Muscovy abroad and the high capital of Poland-Lithuania in this regard covering up for a lot of weaknesses). This is not normally mentioned and is thoroughly politically incorrect to say, but Jagiello for quite a couple of years ruled the biggest blob to be found in this part of the world, up north 100 km from Moskva itself, including Novogrod for which his brother bent knee to him, that being in virtue of Lithuania more than Poland, of course, Poland--itself more or less comparable in power and status to Sweden at the time--giving him a proper royal crown and a respectable position on the list of Christian monarchs. There's a ton of stuff missing from the world without the Commonwealth being recognised as a major player the way it was in certain EU2 and EU3 starting dates. This even without the big Jagiellonian blob-of-brothers (among whom one stupid, pointless war less and there wouldn't have been a Habsburg ascendancy, as realms would've easily remained in family as per previous arrangements they'd bickered over until they lost opportunity). But at some point you had one brother rule Poland and Lithuania with all its Russian fiefs, meaning more than Muscovy had, and down south the other brother kept Bohemia and all of Hungary till the Adriatic. That's more blobbing over a couple of decades' work on inheritances than the end-time achievement of many a CK2 game. Of course, in alternative framework, the King of France could show up at Aachen and win the election, Kalmar Union survived, Spain merged with England, hords held their ground in Russia and eventually westernised or anything equally plausible with different decisions. But still.
This is kinda like Austria--we're looking from an ex post persective: because ex ante, of itself, Austria was just a march upgraded to a duchy at some point by the HRE, having a fancy title but not the electoral dignity. What mattered was putting themselves on the thrones vacated by the Luxbemburgers, which sometimes required decades of toiling or simply waiting (for Poland-Lithuania to waste its chance sometimes, among others). Likewise with Poland, except 1399 starts with Poland and Lithuania already in union, while Habsburgs can't even dream about overshadowing the Luxemburgers, who then or around the time have the HRE, Bohemia and Hungary in the hands of one dynasty, being the mighty blob of the day.
I'd rearrange group 3 too. For example, I know Burgundia is cool (so is Milan) but in a broader perspective, it's not as important as the old and respactable Hungary by any means. Aside from personal tastes, I think Aragon would need some more attention in the earlier starts (a lovely choice for 1399) and Bohemia "is the emperor" when you start. (And when the elected Emperor, who'd otherwise be a duke, sees the sole kingdom in the empire in some other hands (K. of Burgundy aside), he doesn't sleep as well as when he controls that powerhouse.)
The inevitable conclusion is that, I think, you can't really put countries in the same tier throughout all of the time period. And if so, then you'd need to decide either on an ex ante (unlikely) or ex post (preferable for obvious reasons) perspective, but the latter one would skimp on some nice opportunities. At any rate, the same countries certainly don't remain equally important, vital or critical throughout the entire period (while there are some that don't drop below a certain level of importance, that mostly being England and France, though).
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Is it possible to expect a DLC which will add more flavour to the remaining countries (or a subset of them) after release?
Well, one of you said, maybe even you, that they will get same special NI's, so actualy yes. Unless you say that they will not.
EDIT: IMO other russian minors should be able to get missions which moscow get. At 1444 muscowy was not the only candidate for forming russia, and such missions would increase the competition, and give more chances that AI russian minors will form russia in the end, regardless if muscowy get stomped early by poland or not.
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