The 3 tiers...

[Styrbiorn]

The reason was the lack of naval interest. Sweden had strong point on the agriculture and peasants, so it is not surprising that such a country didn't have an efficient navy. It was a completely different situation to the Hansa who had lot of interest on the sea but didn't have central government. I pointed EU as comparison to Hansa, since both organizations don't have the absolute boss. The position of Lübeck, Danzig and Köln were similar to the relationship between Germany, France and Great Britain, if we can allow us simple analogy. Each city (nation) represent it's own interest.
This point is also different to Sweden or Venice who had their head.

I'm not arguing against you; there is no question that you are correct. I'm talking about how it works in the game and that I would prefer to see a (very decentralized) merchant country than an alliance of sorts of different states, in order to simulate how the Hansa actually behaved from the point of view of its neighbours. I would not include all Hanseatic towns though. I unfortunately don't think we can expect any special attention feature-wise.

 

[Dankysh]

I didn't see this in the responses so far, but I may have missed someone say this:

Since this is simply an indication of what will the the priority of the developers in the base game, this is fantastic news. Consider that, in CK2, the Devs focused on Feudal Europe. They then went back and focused on the Islamic states. Now they're going back and focusing on the Byzantine Empire. By staying focused on one area at a time, rather than just trying to make things good overall, I think that CK2 is developing into a much more complex and varied game than it would have been if they just tried to cram everything in vanilla.

So, what I'm saying is that its quite likely that we'll get DLCs that expand things for the lower tier nations. And I'm quite happy.

Though yes, if the Byzantines are Tier 3 (good enough for me), then USA should be tier 3, too. They're kinda mirror images of each other, within the scope of the game (one, a great power before the scope of the game reduced to an insignificant backwater, the other, an insiginificant backwater about to become a great power after the scope of the game).

BYZ are only in it due to a lot of fans who like to play BYZ and restore the empire. I personally have never played USA or most of the time start a new game by the time of the American Revolution. Also there isn't even a guarantee that USA will form (we don't know the Colonization mechanics yet) and if it does it'll probably be late 1700s. Which will be close to game end. That's why I think USA have not been included.

 

[DominusNovus]

BYZ are only in it due to a lot of fans who like to play BYZ and restore the empire. I personally have never played USA or most of the time start a new game by the time of the American Revolution. Also there isn't even a guarantee that USA will form (we don't know the Colonization mechanics yet) and if it does it'll probably be late 1700s. Which will be close to game end. That's why I think USA have not been included.

I like playing the US... (or playing ENG, building a vast colonial empire and then screwing it up, so I can start as UberUSA).

 

[v1989]

I am a bit worried about lack of Bohemia even in 3 tier as it often acted as protector of minor coutries in HRE. I hope that small coutries won't end up as a bait for Brandenburg, Austria.

 

[Dankysh]

I like playing the US... (or playing ENG, building a vast colonial empire and then screwing it up, so I can start as UberUSA).

Honestly never tried it. I personally like playing as Flanders (purely due to their colour) but the majority of people won't/haven't tried it. However there is a lot (me included) who like to play BYZ and restore the empire.

 

[chatnoir17]

I'm talking about how it works in the game and that I would prefer to see a (very decentralized) merchant country than an alliance of sorts of different states, in order to simulate how the Hansa actually behaved from the point of view of its neighbours. I would not include all Hanseatic towns though. I unfortunately don't think we can expect any special attention feature-wise.

Actually it is impossible to include all member towns. We need another HRE system, since town could loose the membership. Bremen were often banned due to the rivalry against Hamburg, and many Hanseatic cities said good by to the League until the 17th century, since the League couldn't guarantee her member cities enough merit.
The government type "merchant republic" seem to have the Venetian/Genoese model, not the Hanseatic model, so we have to accept some weirdness. On the other hand, Sweden and the League had deep economic relationship (Sweden even helped the League indirectly with the revolt against Denmark in the above mentioned war between 1426 and 1435), so the developers might have some idea about their special events.
I am also surprised that there are many countries with tier 1-3 around rather small Baltic Sea area (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Novgorod, Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Hansa, Brandenburg). Playing this area would be more fun than in EU3.

 

[pusty]

Sad that Bohemia isn't there. I was hoping to see more hussite flavour and "what if..." than in EU3, where there was nearly nothing.

 

[unmerged(324266)]

Imo the 3 tiers should have been

Tier 1

United Kingdom
Great Britain
France
Spain

Tier 2
England
Portugal
Castile
Netherlands
Austria
Prussia
Ottoman Empire
Sardinia-Piedmont
Mughals
Poland
One of the Chinese Factions
Sweden
Italy

Tier 3

Milan
Naples
Holland
Scotland
Bohemia
Hungary
Denmark
Abyssinia
Savoy

 

[WeissRaben]

Sardinia-Piedmont was almost a non-factor for its entire existance during the timeframe, though - and Italy did not exist at all. Why putting them in Tier 2?

 

[unmerged(324266)]

Sardinia-Piedmont was almost a non-factor for its entire existance during the timeframe, though - and Italy did not exist at all. Why putting them in Tier 2?

Because lots of people like form it?

Germany should be in tier 2 as well.

 

[WeissRaben]

Because lots of people like form it?

Germany should be in tier 2 as well.

While I do agree with you that ahistorical nations should get more content, I don't think they will do it - DHE are purely historical, and missions/decisions never really included ahistorical possibilities (apart from national formations themselves). As such, Italy/SP/Germany are out, I fear.

 

[Niptium]

While I do agree with you that ahistorical nations should get more content, I don't think they will do it - DHE are purely historical, and missions/decisions never really included ahistorical possibilities (apart from national formations themselves). As such, Italy/SP/Germany are out, I fear.

+1

 

[polskaGOLA]

There's tons of hurt nationalist comments in this thread, if you dont see the amusing in how this thread is trolling up nationalists I would suggest you read more and think before you post - it would spare you moments of looking polish.

Can someone tell me why a country whose only purpose during the last hundred years of the game was to provide land for Prussia, Russia and Austria and which stopped existing during the timeframe could possibly be considered first tier?

Jeez. Did my countrymen take all the jobs in Sweden or something?

 

[GreatSlayer]

Jeez. Did my countrymen take all the jobs in Sweden or something?

Are you really surprised though? When adding real nations, people will reminise every history lesson they had in elemtary school, and remember clearly everything they did right and sublime. Just look at the reactions when CA announced Portugal weren't gonna be a playable major in Empire:TW... As said before, the different tiers, especially between 1 and 2, will probably not be that different. Maybe T1 have some more decisions/events to "push" that country in the right direction.

 

[polskaGOLA]

Are you really surprised though? When adding real nations, people will reminise every history lesson they had in elemtary school, and remember clearly everything they did right and sublime. Just look at the reactions when CA announced Portugal weren't gonna be a playable major in Empire:TW... As said before, the different tiers, especially between 1 and 2, will probably not be that different. Maybe T1 have some more decisions/events to "push" that country in the right direction.

I'm well aware that the tiers are meaningless (more so when it comes to Poland since the game mechanics won't ever portray the Commonwealth correctly, and no amount of events and flavor is going to change that) but I get the impression that some people think that Poland is some empty space where there was nothing until the partitions.

 

[NapoleonI]

Great! Sweden made it.

I think "Annex Poland and Denmark" should be one of the extra flavor events for Sweden. And each time you do, the game should take a screenshot and upload it to the forum.

 

[MilosM]

Great! Sweden made it.

I think "Annex Poland and Denmark" should be one of the extra flavor events for Sweden. And each time you do, the game should take a screenshot and upload it to the forum.

Annexation by event? That's so cruel.

 

[Sathariel]

Great! Sweden made it.

I think "Annex Poland and Denmark" should be one of the extra flavor events for Sweden. And each time you do, the game should take a screenshot and upload it to the forum.

I`d add Russia too, in case it forms and dares to cause any troubles .

 

[polskaGOLA]

I want to see Sweden go after Novgorod once every 15 or so games too. =)

 

[Grubnessul]

Now the trolling lost all it's subtlety. Making fun of nationalists is an art, guys!