The 15 Year War

[JScott991]

In my first playthrough of the game (as France), I found it kind of enjoyable but very, very short. It's also quite easy as France, but that's neither here nor there.

One problem was that Austria started a war with the Ottomans in 1805 and it lasted until the very end of the game. The first years saw the Turks in ascendance, but gradually Austria took most of the Balkans (except, curiously, Belgrade and the surroundings). There was never a peace treaty.

I thought this was odd. It sort of ruined the game because Austria never participated in any of Napoleonic Wars, leaving me free to do what I wanted in Germany, but also keeping me from ending the HRE or liberating Italy.

When it happened in my second game (which is only in 1814 now), I became concerned.

I'm sure this doesn't happen all the time, but based on what I've seen, the Turks are way too strong. And Austria is far too indifferent to what is going on in Germany.

One suggestion I have is for Austria to guarantee more German minors, but that won't help if they are bogged down in Turkey for the duration of the game.

I have seen Russia beat Turkey and negotiate peace.

On a side note, the Danish-Sweden wars seem to take forever to resolve themselves as well.

 

[King171717]

"One problem was that Austria started a war with the Ottomans in 1805 and it lasted until the very end of the game. The first years saw the Turks in ascendance, but gradually Austria took most of the Balkans (except, curiously, Belgrade and the surroundings). There was never a peace treaty."

This has happen in both games i played which went 1820.
The problem i found with Austria doing this, is that the prussia, or france or russia jump in on them and takes some of there land. Even after this, they still keep on fighting the ottomans.

 

[Unkles27]

In my first playthrough of the game (as France), I found it kind of enjoyable but very, very short. It's also quite easy as France, but that's neither here nor there.

One problem was that Austria started a war with the Ottomans in 1805 and it lasted until the very end of the game. The first years saw the Turks in ascendance, but gradually Austria took most of the Balkans (except, curiously, Belgrade and the surroundings). There was never a peace treaty.

I thought this was odd. It sort of ruined the game because Austria never participated in any of Napoleonic Wars, leaving me free to do what I wanted in Germany, but also keeping me from ending the HRE or liberating Italy.

When it happened in my second game (which is only in 1814 now), I became concerned.

I'm sure this doesn't happen all the time, but based on what I've seen, the Turks are way too strong. And Austria is far too indifferent to what is going on in Germany.

One suggestion I have is for Austria to guarantee more German minors, but that won't help if they are bogged down in Turkey for the duration of the game.

I have seen Russia beat Turkey and negotiate peace.

On a side note, the Danish-Sweden wars seem to take forever to resolve themselves as well.

Same thing here. Austria fought the Ottomans for the entire game, neither side was able to gain a clear advantage and other great powers used this to pick off pieces of the Austrians and Ottomans.

 

[Ruskin]

I had a similar experience playing as Egypt. Austria and the Ottomans fought to a standstill for almost the entire 15 year period, allowing my Egyptian forces to wage war after war on the Ottomans. After pocketing and wiping the first wave of Ottoman defenders that reached the Sinai Peninsula, I met with only limited resistance for the rest of the game. Playing cautiously, I still ended the game having taken 2/3rds of the Ottoman territory. Great Britain and France formed and disbanded their respective coalitions at least a half a dozen times.

 

[JScott991]

I guess the AI isn't all there yet.

 

[unmerged(346511)]

I think the problem is that both countries have so many cities, conquering some of those doesn't bring the warscore up enough so they don't sign peace treaties.
Other countries sue for peace after two or three cities, to get a treaty from the ottomans its more like 10-15 cities you have to take.

That is as long as their armies are still around 100k. And as passive as they fight those usually stay at 100k

@Ruskin: i noticed the same as Egypt. OE declares war on you very early but commits (almost) no troops to it. And when Russia joins the party OE can't cope at all ^^

 

[StephenT]

I think the problem is simply that MotE has far fewer active countries than most other Paradox games. In EU3, there are a dozen or more countries Austria could attack right from the start.

In MotE, it's "Attack Russia? No, they're stronger than me. Attack Prussia? No, they're about the same strength as me. Attack France? Hell no. Other major powers? Too far away. Attack the Ottomans? Weaker than me, we share a border - let's go!!" It makes perfect sense for the Austrian AI to attack the Ottomans; the trouble is, it makes sense for them to do it every single game because there aren't really any other good options.

How to fix it? I wonder if they ought to do something like HoI3 with the 'Danzig or War' decision. Give Austria a decision "Join the Third Coalition" which wil trigger as soon as Britain has at least one other Major Power (or specifically, Russia or Prussia) in their coalition. Give the AI a specific % chance to take the decision or to cancel it permanently, so there's still a random element in what they do. Taking it puts them in Britain's coalition and white-peaces them with the Ottomans (the UK mediates a settlement to stop Vienna being distracted).

If they cancel the decision, they can still join coalitions normally and behave as they do currently in the game. Taking the decision means France faces a war with Austria and another Continental major power in 1805, like they did historically.

 

[JScott991]

That would be great. The game really should feel more like HOI. I was going to write a long thread on this, but decided that there wasn't a point.

But the biggest problem with this game is that it isn't enough like HOI3. Instead of being a "tight" simulation of the short period in question, it just feels like a very short EU3, where countries drift off and do their own thing, until France beats the crap out of them. So Austria spends the Napoleonic Wars fighting the OE. Russia spends it fighting Sweden and Turkey. Prussia spends it gobbling up little Germany states and being stomped by France. And the UK just goofs around on Corsica and in the Netherlands, getting crushed.

It really isn't all there yet. They need to do some work.

If nothing else, they need to weaken Turkey vis a vis Austria, and Egypt vis a vis everyone.

 

[mtrivundza]

I actually just went and modded the relations hit Austria gets against France on the Napoleon crowned King of Italy event(which historically pretty much guaranteed war with Austria) from -25 to -75. I also changed Austria and Ottomans relations to -5 from -100. So far in all my tests Austria then joins the coalition if they haven't yet already declared war against the Turks which is much less likely early on.

A lot of the war problems seem to be somewhat related to a lot of countries having too good of relations and therefore can't join coalitions. I believe relations have to be below 5 which France and Austria start at while Austria and the Turks start at -100 which probably pushes them in their decision to invade them instead.

 

[ikki]

looks like otto-austria strength is about right. Look how well austria did when allied to russia while carving up the balkans & krim a decade or two earlier. In short, austria was beaten time and time again.

russians tried waring austria about the preferred otto tactic of surrounding and destroying units as opposed to clear battle-lines, but they didnt listen.. and had their units surrounded and destroyed aka pocketing. Too bad that desent seem to work in this game, ohwell.

 

[unmerged(4217)]

I guess the AI isn't all there yet.

I guess so. I've played a few games now and I never saw Austria or Prussia at war with France. That is not a small detail. Ausria was France's most implacable enemy. This game may have its own logic but it's not about the Napoleonic wars.

 

[deadmeat1471]

I guess so. I've played a few games now and I never saw Austria or Prussia at war with France. That is not a small detail. Ausria was France's most implacable enemy. This game may have its own logic but it's not about the Napoleonic wars.

I think they need to tweak coalitions to make them more tempting, it's supposed to work to keep equilibrium(beat down the strongest enemy) but currently no one gives a shit about killing France, which as you say, is a pretty big deal.

 

[unmerged(227032)]

I almost always saw Austria and Prussia at war with France but still, they never managed to make the difference in my game.
And playing as Russia 2 times, I simply find more advantageous to not attack France at all.
I mean, there is simply no purpose doing so in the first place. All of your goals are nearby and France actually help you weaken Austria and Prussia.
And worst of all, there is the Tilsit event that increase the relation between the two countries.
Same for Austria and the mariage event.

But truly, once Austria go to war with the Ottomans, it simply never ends.